Dispatches

[CaleyJulz]

Any one watching Dispatches on channel 4. This is unreal these kids are so lucky to have these nurture groups in their school i have never heard of anything like it up in the highlands. But why are these kids like this

Levi and Jordan have serious problems but where do the stem from ???

I wish these kids all the best !!!

[alternative maryhill]

Haven't been watching it - didn't notice it was on - but the absence of nuture groups in Highland schools, I would guess, will be down to budget allocation.

My previous school ran a nuture group in S1 / S2 for the pupils with the most challenging learning needs (which often contributed to severe behavioural difficulties). It was a qualified success - the pupils in question got more support and teachers in the mainstream classes were able to work at a slightly quicker pace without neglecting such pupils. There were a few problems - trying to reintegrate pupils in S3, for example, and also the fact that a certain stigma was attached to the nuture group. On balance, though I feel it was a good thing.

This year, however, due to staffing cuts, the school had to decide whether it should continue with the nuture group and consequently have to increase class sizes across the board, or ditch the nuture class and keep smaller class sizes. With regret, they chose the latter. According to my ex-colleagues, there has been a bit of a deterioration in discipline and pace of learning as a result, but they reckon they might have seen that anyway had they gone for larger class sizes instead. In other words, it's a lose-lose situation. It is particularly hard in a school like that, with one of the most deprived catchment areas in western Europe, but smaller classes and better support benefits pupils no matter what social background they come from, IMO.

[CaleyJulz]

The differance in the kids was unreal at the end i even felt proud for them.

Its all down to money !!

The staff that do this job must have the patitance of a saint dealing with that day in day out !!!

[maimie]

The differance in the kids was unreal at the end i even felt proud for them.

Its all down to money !!

The staff that do this job must have the patitance of a saint dealing with that day in day out !!!

watched this tonight and i don't think the difference in the kids behaviour is down to money at all.

yes money in the fact that the kids were soooo disruptive that they had to have specialist staff to look after them and change their thinking and behaviour.

Mrs jnr asked where their problems stemmed from. to me it was quite clear - from the home.

you saw the wee boy kidding on he was drunk - his mum was an alcoholic. hitting - they'd seen it at home. language - they hear it at home.

what difference did the school make? they set boundaries. made the kids chose which path they took, pointing out the consequences of the wrong choices, sticking to the rules if they did the wrong thing. they provided consistency.

things these kids lack in their every day lives.

no such thing as a bad kid - well there is the very very odd one..... it's very easy to say that schools should be responsible for kids behaviour but parents need to look to themselves....

coat...

Edited January 9, 2009 by ict5arbroath2

[The Mantis]

Before you get your coat-

What does it take to become a teacher?

At least 4 years of training.

What does it take to become a parent?

A working set of plumbing

[CaleyJulz]

The differance in the kids was unreal at the end i even felt proud for them.

Its all down to money !!

The staff that do this job must have the patitance of a saint dealing with that day in day out !!!

watched this tonight and i don't think the difference in the kids behaviour is down to money at all.

yes money in the fact that the kids were soooo disruptive that they had to have specialist staff to look after them and change their thinking and behaviour.

Mrs jnr asked where their problems stemmed from. to me it was quite clear - from the home.

you saw the wee boy kidding on he was drunk - his mum was an alcoholic. hitting - they'd seen it at home. language - they hear it at home.

what difference did the school make? they set boundaries. made the kids chose which path they took, pointing out the consequences of the wrong choices, sticking to the rules if they did the wrong thing. they provided consistency.

things these kids lack in their every day lives.

no such thing as a bad kid - well there is the very very odd one..... it's very easy to say that schools should be responsible for kids behaviour but parents need to look to themselves....

coat...

I totally agree with a lot of what you are saying.... My comment about it being down to money i was meaning in different areas no matter where you live you are going to come across a child whos parents set no boundaries for what ever reason.

I think schools should have the resorses to help these famillies.

[absent friend]

Now, this will be taken as old fashioned BUT the root of the problem is Lack of RESPECT!

No respect for teachers, school, age, each other, themselves and, where the problem lies, no respect for the family NAME!

I do feel that parents can create some trouble by being the children's PAL. Does not work, like a puppy they require to be told right from wrong and suffer the consequences if they make the wrong choice.

Giving in to a yelling child only teaches them to yell harder next time and they will get what they want once more.

Not having a strict routine leaves the children with a lack of boundaries to observe, so why should they go to bed at a specific time, for instance.

Do not bribe, money should not matter to a child. Love should, outdoors should, and lots and lots of story telling to open up their little minds.

TV, PC, well away until they understand the world a wee bit better.

They are the most precious gifts we, as parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles and friends could ever receive - treat them as such - and enjoy their moving through the stages of life and be on hand when they become confused.

Don't spoil this world for them by taking the easy way out, a video does not equal a cuddle!!

.

[CaleyD]

Biggest problem with society today is that it's too easy for parents to pass the buck when it comes to taking responsibility for their children's behaviour.

There's not enough accountability and it always seems to be someone else's fault or someone else who is expected to pick up the pieces by spending on additional resources to prevent these problems impacting on the education of other kids.

[CaleyJulz]

I think parents should be given help to help the realise that they are a part of the problem and yes i thonk that is massive step forward then they should be given the help to help them be better parents.

[CaleyD]

There's more help available now for parents than has ever been the case and the problem is getting worse!!!

It will continue to do so unless responsibility is placed squarely back on the parents and they are held accountable, only then might they actually try to do something for themselves instead of blaming everyone else.

[alternative maryhill]

There's more help available now for parents than has ever been the case and the problem is getting worse!!!

It will continue to do so unless responsibility is placed squarely back on the parents and they are held accountable, only then might they actually try to do something for themselves instead of blaming everyone else.

There's some truth in this, but in areas of long-term. deep-seated social deprivation there are many families in utterly inadequate social housing, there are wider-spread addiction problems and higher crime rates. It's understandable that a certain percentage of people in these areas have lost faith in the political and education systems, and this transmits to some of the children. There is also an issue with children who may be effectively carers for their parents - school isn't really their first priority. If they are unmotivated and unhappy, they are more likely to be disruptive, and this can affect some of the other pupils (although never all - this image of whole classes being feral and out of control is a myth, in my experience). Ironically, school can provide real stability for some of these kids and some manage to flourish in spit of difficult home lives. The answer surely can't be to cut funding to schools so that pupils end up in larger classes and resources like nuture groups and time out zones are abandoned. Some parents aren't in a position to take full responsiblity whereas schools can, if properly funded and organised, help to some extent.

Edited January 15, 2009 by alternative maryhill

[CaleyD]

That's not what I'm saying at all AM, but their comes a point where people have to realise that throwing money at things is not always the solution...certainly not the entire solution. I've no issue at all with money being spent to help people "less fortunate" (be it financially or not having a suitable family support network to assist etc) get on their feet and have opportunities others take for granted. What gets me is that many of the people getting assistance just now are doing little, if anything, to help themselves and if that is to change then they have to accountable for their inactions.

[alternative maryhill]

That's not what I'm saying at all AM, but their comes a point where people have to realise that throwing money at things is not always the solution...certainly not the entire solution. I've no issue at all with money being spent to help people "less fortunate" (be it financially or not having a suitable family support network to assist etc) get on their feet and have opportunities others take for granted. What gets me is that many of the people getting assistance just now are doing little, if anything, to help themselves and if that is to change then they have to accountable for their inactions.

Sorry Don, my post wasn't really meant to be taking issue with you specifically. It was more a response to the general direction the thread had taken, moving away from the focus on schools towards the issue of parental responsibility. I just wanted to point out that I think schools can and should take some responsibility for helping children develop behaviourally as well as educationally, provided they are properly resourced. This shouldn't excuse parents from their duty towards their kids of course, but it can make life easier for some kids from really difficult backgrounds.

The media response to "problem chiildren" is always really frustrating - it seems to swing between placing all the blame on failings in education and placing all the blame on bad parenting, when of course there is no simple solution. The other end of the social scale, the independent sector, is not immune from this sort of simplification either - having sold my soul and taken a job in a private school when Glasgow City Council started cutting posts and reallocating staff, I've noticed that there is a percentage of parents who seem to think that having paid their school fees, they can wash their hands of their kids and allow the school to take care of all the motivation, encouragement and discipline. Unsurprisingly, the children of these parents are the pupils who tend to benefit least from what the school can offer. I guess what I'm saying is in an ideal world schools and parents will work together for the best outcomes for children.

Anyway, I'm going to stop mithering and go and get ready for the game.

[CaleyJulz]

Parents need to shoulder a lot of the blame but what if these parents have problems themselfs ????

If they will bennifit from help then yes give it to the even more so if the realize yes i have a problem i need help !!!

And those who dont give a poo where there kids are who their with etc !!!! Then well try and make them realise they need help.........And i suppose there are some who really do not care !!!

[maimie]

Parents need to shoulder a lot of the blame but what if these parents have problems themselfs ????

If they will bennifit from help then yes give it to the even more so if the realize yes i have a problem i need help !!!

And those who dont give a poo where there kids are who their with etc !!!! Then well try and make them realise they need help.........And i suppose there are some who really do not care !!!

how do you make them realise that they need help? how do you get them to accept the help they need? what do you do if they don't? how many chances do you give them?

would you like to judge??

social workers - damned if they do, damned if they don't... don't envy them their job at all...

Edited January 20, 2009 by maimie

[gordyfromsneck]

Before you get your coat-

What does it take to become a teacher?

At least 4 years of training.

What does it take to become a parent?

A working set of plumbing

NOTH, as always Mantis. You have to jump through a dozen hoops to become a foster parent. When are they going to start licencing parenthood?

[Guest birdog]

Could it be down to the government?

Could it be down to banning of corporal punishment?

Could it be down to mixed messages on how parents discipline children?

Could it be down to the government trying to shift blame for societies problems from themselves to parents?