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You don't see much political endorsement from the world of Scottish football. David Murray came out for the Tories over the weekend, in his capacity as a business leader, but I've just seen this report on the BBC website:

Former Scotland and Celtic footballer Murdo MacLeod says it is time for the Tories to be given a "kick at the ball". He said Labour had "run out of puff".

There's always something amusing about public displays of support from random Z-listers who nobody cares about.

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LOL @ the BNP sunglasses wearing guy giving some bizarre solute behind Gordon Brown. Absolutely cringeworthy.

I don't think he was BNP as far as I remember he was from the "Land is power" or something similar.

EDITED to correct party name, also to say that if people should check their facts before posting, a quick look at the BBC site shows BNP were not even standing in Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath, sometimes I wonder if allowing the masses to chose our leadership is the most sensible option!

Edited by Revbirdog
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:004:

LOL @ the BNP sunglasses wearing guy giving some bizarre solute behind Gordon Brown. Absolutely cringeworthy.

I don't think he was BNP as far as I remember he was from the "Land is power" or something similar.

EDITED to correct party name, also to say that if people should check their facts before posting, a quick look at the BBC site shows BNP were not even standing in Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath, sometimes I wonder if allowing the masses to chose our leadership is the most sensible option!

Whoever he was, he was weird.

Edit - Did anyone else think he looked a bit like The Edge from U2 but without the hat?

Edited by Renegade
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scotland should quit the uk and tell London what to do with there money

I used to vote SNP. The Scottish Government own David MacBrayne Ltd, who in turn own Northlink and Caledonian MacBrayne, The MV Hascosay a Northlink ferry was sold and replaced by the Hildasay which is owned by Seatruck and chartered to work on the freight run from the mainland to the Northern Isles, Seatruck employ foreign seamen with far worse conditions of employment than the seamen employed by Northlink. British jobs will be lost and it will not stop at one vessel, Northlink have promised no redundancies but will not replace any "natural wastage" meaning less berths for British seamen on British home trade routes. The routes currently operated by Northlink are up for tender in 2 years and if rumours are to be believed the vessels operating on these routes will be replaced in the same way and Calmac will follow suit, eventually, and the SNP led government at Holyrood are involved big time.

I spoilt my ballot. None of the parties who stood in my constituency deserve my vote.

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I don't follow that post above Revbirdog. Could you explain it a little more please?

In reference to the guy with the sunglasses on, he was not BNP. Gordon Brown actually went to shake the guys' hand but the nugget stood there looking like a prune. There's no way Gordon Brown would have offered To shake the hand of a BNP candidate. Also, fair play and hats off to Margaret Curran for leaving the stage last night instead of sharing it with the BNP to give her acceptance speech. Minor points I know - but good to see nonetheless. Oh, IF a con/lib coalition govt is formed, I wonder if danny Alexander will have a position in it...

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I don't follow that post above Revbirdog. Could you explain it a little more please?

In reference to the guy with the sunglasses on, he was not BNP. Gordon Brown actually went to shake the guys' hand but the nugget stood there looking like a prune. There's no way Gordon Brown would have offered To shake the hand of a BNP candidate. Also, fair play and hats off to Margaret Curran for leaving the stage last night instead of sharing it with the BNP to give her acceptance speech. Minor points I know - but good to see nonetheless. Oh, IF a con/lib coalition govt is formed, I wonder if danny Alexander will have a position in it...

To put it simply the Scottish Government own the company which owns Northlink and Calmac, they sold the old Northlink freight ship and replaced it with a chartered in ship with cheap foreign labour. The crew of the Northlink vessel will not be made redundant but nor will they be replaced when there are retirements or such from the company, this was all rubber stamped by the SNP Government. However, with the routes up for tender in a couple of years there are rumours going about that Northlink will sell the three passenger ships and charter in three more on the same terms as the freight ship. In effect, the Scottish government are selling our jobs to the highest bidder.

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To put it simply the Scottish Government own the company which owns Northlink and Calmac, they sold the old Northlink freight ship and replaced it with a chartered in ship with cheap foreign labour. The crew of the Northlink vessel will not be made redundant but nor will they be replaced when there are retirements or such from the company, this was all rubber stamped by the SNP Government. However, with the routes up for tender in a couple of years there are rumours going about that Northlink will sell the three passenger ships and charter in three more on the same terms as the freight ship. In effect, the Scottish government are selling our jobs to the highest bidder.

Excellent work, do you think they could do that with the councils next? Then prisons? Hospitals? Etc., etc., ...

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To put it simply the Scottish Government own the company which owns Northlink and Calmac, they sold the old Northlink freight ship and replaced it with a chartered in ship with cheap foreign labour. The crew of the Northlink vessel will not be made redundant but nor will they be replaced when there are retirements or such from the company, this was all rubber stamped by the SNP Government. However, with the routes up for tender in a couple of years there are rumours going about that Northlink will sell the three passenger ships and charter in three more on the same terms as the freight ship. In effect, the Scottish government are selling our jobs to the highest bidder.

Excellent work, do you think they could do that with the councils next? Then prisons? Hospitals? Etc., etc., ...

Scary, isn't it. It's easier to do with ships though as the crew do not even have to reside within the UK and do not pay tax to our country.

Edited by Revbirdog
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Ok, so I am going to sound thick here but as it stands (1 more to go for Scotland) the Tories only have one seat within Scotland. So technically if they manage to form a government and it is approved the UK will be run by them and Scotland who overall didn't want them in will have to deal with it? That doesn't sound fair or am I missing something?

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Ok, so I am going to sound thick here but as it stands (1 more to go for Scotland) the Tories only have one seat within Scotland. So technically if they manage to form a government and it is approved the UK will be run by them and Scotland who overall didn't want them in will have to deal with it? That doesn't sound fair or am I missing something?

You are missing something, you are breaking the UK down into areas instead of looking at the UK as a whole. Like it or not we are part of the UK and the election which was held yesterday was for the whole of the UK, not just Scotland. You could look at it another way and say that England, which does not have a devolved parliament of it's own, has voted for Conservative yet the Scottish Lib Dems and Labour could become a part of a coalition which rules that country, giving Scots more of a say than they deserve in the running of England as a country, at least we have Hollyrood which has a lot of power of it's own to take care of our needs. When you take into consideration that we only have around 10% of the UK populous then I would say that Scotland has a far bigger say in UK politics after this election than we are due!

It would depend on what kind of spin you want to put on the result.

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Ok, so I am going to sound thick here but as it stands (1 more to go for Scotland) the Tories only have one seat within Scotland. So technically if they manage to form a government and it is approved the UK will be run by them and Scotland who overall didn't want them in will have to deal with it? That doesn't sound fair or am I missing something?

You are missing something, you are breaking the UK down into areas instead of looking at the UK as a whole. Like it or not we are part of the UK and the election which was held yesterday was for the whole of the UK, not just Scotland. You could look at it another way and say that England, which does not have a devolved parliament of it's own, has voted for Conservative yet the Scottish Lib Dems and Labour could become a part of a coalition which rules that country, giving Scots more of a say than they deserve in the running of England as a country, at least we have Hollyrood which has a lot of power of it's own to take care of our needs. When you take into consideration that we only have around 10% of the UK populous then I would say that Scotland has a far bigger say in UK politics after this election than we are due!

It would depend on what kind of spin you want to put on the result.

Thanks for that! x

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Ok, so I am going to sound thick here but as it stands (1 more to go for Scotland) the Tories only have one seat within Scotland. So technically if they manage to form a government and it is approved the UK will be run by them and Scotland who overall didn't want them in will have to deal with it? That doesn't sound fair or am I missing something?

Nope, that sounds about right, although the number of 'governing party MPs' will rise if they form a coalition with the Lib Dems as many rural parts of Scotland are Lib Dem strongholds ...

Extending your logic .... the tories got 36% of the vote .... that means that 64% of the electorate DIDNT want them. With Labour it was 29 and the Lib Dems 23 meaning that over 70% didnt want them either. And then of course you have to consider that maybe only half of eligible voters actually voted so the numbers can be skewed even further depending on how you want to do it. Its all a cluster**** and always has been.

The whole system is geared only for two national parties .... when you get a 3rd, 4th, 5th (or more) party involved in the mix, or a regional party like those in Scotland, N Ireland or Wales then the inequities become even more apparent. Tories will get around 47% of the seats with 36% of the vote, Labour get near 40% with a 29% share and the Lib Dems get 8% of the seats with 23% of the vote !!! Even the SNP got 1.7% of the national vote by virtue of high numbers in Scotland but will get only 0.9% of the seats !!

With so many 'parties' now appearing on the ballot and people holding wider ranging views that might embrace SNP, Green, UKIP or other fringe parties it should be time for reform so that all those who vote for these small parties can actually have a voice. I am not a huge fan of any party, but the days of one party coming in and imposing its will then being turfed out and their polar opposite coming in and reversing or modifying those policies should be allowed to go the way of the dinosaurs. The Lib Dems have been going on about PR for decades but it should be the way forward ....

PS - according to the 'who should you vote for' thing earlier in this thread I am a closet green :023:

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Ok, so I am going to sound thick here but as it stands (1 more to go for Scotland) the Tories only have one seat within Scotland. So technically if they manage to form a government and it is approved the UK will be run by them and Scotland who overall didn't want them in will have to deal with it? That doesn't sound fair or am I missing something?

Nope, that sounds about right, although the number of 'governing party MPs' will rise if they form a coalition with the Lib Dems as many rural parts of Scotland are Lib Dem strongholds ...

Extending your logic .... the tories got 36% of the vote .... that means that 64% of the electorate DIDNT want them. With Labour it was 29 and the Lib Dems 23 meaning that over 70% didnt want them either. And then of course you have to consider that maybe only half of eligible voters actually voted so the numbers can be skewed even further depending on how you want to do it. Its all a cluster**** and always has been.

The whole system is geared only for two national parties .... when you get a 3rd, 4th, 5th (or more) party involved in the mix, or a regional party like those in Scotland, N Ireland or Wales then the inequities become even more apparent. Tories will get around 47% of the seats with 36% of the vote, Labour get near 40% with a 29% share and the Lib Dems get 8% of the seats with 23% of the vote !!! Even the SNP got 1.7% of the national vote by virtue of high numbers in Scotland but will get only 0.9% of the seats !!

With so many 'parties' now appearing on the ballot and people holding wider ranging views that might embrace SNP, Green, UKIP or other fringe parties it should be time for reform so that all those who vote for these small parties can actually have a voice. I am not a huge fan of any party, but the days of one party coming in and imposing its will then being turfed out and their polar opposite coming in and reversing or modifying those policies should be allowed to go the way of the dinosaurs. The Lib Dems have been going on about PR for decades but it should be the way forward ....

PS - according to the 'who should you vote for' thing earlier in this thread I am a closet green :023:

Percentages aside Scotty I have a couple of points.

1 It was NOT a Scottish election, you could say that the North of England never wanted a Tory government, Wales never wanted a Tory government and NI never wanted a Tory government but all those facts are irrelevant given that it was a UK election.

2 The Scottish MPs are now going to be instrumental in who forms the UK government and by that fact the Scottish people are instrumental in the next UK government. If rumours are to be believed Labour and Lib Dems are looking at a pact to form a UK government but even with those two getting into bed together the SNP are rumoured to be considering a deal with the Tories along with the Ulster Unionists and Plaid Cymru, which would effectively stop Labour and Lib Dem being able to for the government.

Scottish voter could well have had a massive say in who runs our country next.

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Percentages aside Scotty I have a couple of points.

1 It was NOT a Scottish election, you could say that the North of England never wanted a Tory government, Wales never wanted a Tory government and NI never wanted a Tory government but all those facts are irrelevant given that it was a UK election.

Exactly - that is why I was using UK figures/percentages from the BBC pages to comment on the UK election. You can regionalise it any way you want Scotland, England, N. Ireland, Wales, North England, South England, North/South of Watford and come up with numbers to support 100 different arguments.

The point remains that the current electoral system only represents the choice of the people - all of the people - when there are only two parties. As soon as you add a third party or more into the mix the inequities of the 'first past the post' system become apparent.

2 The Scottish MPs are now going to be instrumental in who forms the UK government and by that fact the Scottish people are instrumental in the next UK government. If rumours are to be believed Labour and Lib Dems are looking at a pact to form a UK government but even with those two getting into bed together the SNP are rumoured to be considering a deal with the Tories along with the Ulster Unionists and Plaid Cymru, which would effectively stop Labour and Lib Dem being able to for the government. Scottish voter could well have had a massive say in who runs our country next.

It will definitely be interesting to view as the various posturing and politicking goes on to see who gets what in terms of a deal or promises to implement policies and I agree with you, Scotland and Scottish voters will have a big say, and if any party jumps into bed with PC, SNP or the Ulster parties then those areas will also have a big say.

Canada has a very similar system to the UK (not surprising as it was based that) ... and for the last couple of elections it has been a minority Conservative government elected. Being a minority has meant that PM Stephen Harper has not been able to implement many of the (more radical) policies he would have liked as it would have brought down the government ... instead he has had to make compromises and deals with the other parties and try to do what is best for the country

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The only way it is ever going to be fair for all counties, would be the rejection of the Union. Each country to their own. The current one simply is not fair for the smaller countries, yet a change would make it unfair of the majority in England.

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It will definitely be interesting to view as the various posturing and politicking goes on to see who gets what in terms of a deal or promises to implement policies and I agree with you, Scotland and Scottish voters will have a big say, and if any party jumps into bed with PC, SNP or the Ulster parties then those areas will also have a big say.

Canada has a very similar system to the UK (not surprising as it was based that) ... and for the last couple of elections it has been a minority Conservative government elected. Being a minority has meant that PM Stephen Harper has not been able to implement many of the (more radical) policies he would have liked as it would have brought down the government ... instead he has had to make compromises and deals with the other parties and try to do what is best for the country

I am actually looking forward to seeing the effects this election has on the country. I hate party politics because when I vote I vote for the candidate and not the party, too often people are elected on the back of one policy which is in the interest of the local electorate yet when they get to power the policy which they were elected on gets changed to fall in line with the Party's stance at the time. It's all well and good saying if they don't do what you want vote them out the next time but it is often too late when an act is passed already. John Prescott was put into office on the back of the seaman's union but when he got there he did feck all to halt the decline in the Merchant fleet. I believe that all votes in Parliament should be free votes so that the MP can best represent the needs of his constituents, maybe the fact that smaller majorities mean that every vote counts will mean that the people will get better representation as it is going to be a lot harder to wield the whip knowing that an MP jumping ship and joining another party might tip the balance of power.

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The only way it is ever going to be fair for all counties, would be the rejection of the Union. Each country to their own. The current one simply is not fair for the smaller countries, yet a change would make it unfair of the majority in England.

It would make no difference, people from the North of Scotland would complain that they voted predominantly Lib Dem but they were run by Labour. People in England would have a North (Labour)/ South (Cons) divide and find reason to complain about that. That's the beauty of politics, someone somewhere is always upset.

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Just noticed that UKIP and the BNP got a lot more votes than the SNP.

Yes, but then you have to remember that they are UK wide Parties. the SNP are Scotland only. I am really dissapointed by how poor the Socialist Parties have done.

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Just noticed that UKIP and the BNP got a lot more votes than the SNP.

I am really dissapointed by how poor the Socialist Parties have done.

Yup... I see Coamrade Foaxy only polled about 300 votes. Was Coamrade Toammy even standing or is he still in that swingers' club? And whatever happened to Sister Rosy?

I suppose moderate Socialism has sort of been a victim of its own success while extreme Socialism simply got rumbled as the ultimate oppression of the Proletariat.

After a steady build up, moderate Socialism came into its own in this country post 1945 due to special conditions prevailing as a result of the war which had just ended and also to meet a demand for the Welfare State (which worked) and to Nationalise various industries (which broadly didn't).

It enjoyed a 30 year heyday but, with many of its objectives achieved, went into decline - helped on its way by gross misbehaviour on the part of the Unions in the 60s and 70s. However it took the entire 80s and a bit more for it to dawn that it wasn't working and Socialism had become unelectable. So indirectly, Socialism's extremes landed us with over a decade of Thatcherism.

Then Tony and Cronies twigged that to become electable, Labour was going to have to ditch Socialism (and with it Clause 4 - common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange) but what the hell... Socialism is the greatest political philosophy in the world... until you have to apply it to yourself.

Never mind, though. It didn't really work in Russia either, despite Stalin and friends doing their best to impose it and bumping off about 20 million people in the attempt between 1917 and 1990.

In summary... I think we have moved into a post Socilalist world where the likes of Coamrade Foaxy are mere dinosaurs.

Edited by Charles Bannerman
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2 The Scottish MPs are now going to be instrumental in who forms the UK government and by that fact the Scottish people are instrumental in the next UK government. If rumours are to be believed Labour and Lib Dems are looking at a pact to form a UK government but even with those two getting into bed together the SNP are rumoured to be considering a deal with the Tories along with the Ulster Unionists and Plaid Cymru, which would effectively stop Labour and Lib Dem being able to for the government.

Scottish voter could well have had a massive say in who runs our country next.

This is never going to happen and has been totally ruled out by alex salmond earlier, but the snp have been approached by gordon brown with a view to talks proceeding between the them and pc in wales. the snp undoubtably have potentially a strong hand, which imo is a good thing for scotland.

Just noticed that UKIP and the BNP got a lot more votes than the SNP.

no surprises there really. ukip also got a stack more votes than the greens, yet its the greens that have a seat in the commons for their efforts.

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