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'Fans' at Aberdeen match


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I was ashamed at the behaviour of some of our support on Saturday! Told to sit on their rear end by the stewards, only resulted in a total 'face up' to them and this was justified by the fact that some fans were standing in the Aberdeen area.

For Heavens sake - we see this at all OF games and realise that there is one law for some and not for others .. BUT this does NOT justify bad behaviour.

'Throw out' resulted in some 'fans' anyway being seated at the back of the empty section next to the Aberdeen fans but under the watchful eye of the stewards - enjoying possibly a better viewing spot than we had, seated as we were above the goal line.

The upshot of their behaviour resulted in some ladies around me being most concerned for the 'ejected' fans BUT the 'Bouncy, Bouncy' brigade was NOT there to watch the match but on a wind up mission and they blooming well wound me up and others around me as we missed part of a game due to stewards having to invade our space to get at the 'fans'.

A lady on my right gave the proper response as one silly wee laddie was being led out past us with a BIG smile on his face ... " I suppose your richt proud of yursell now!!" (Wicker accent)

I could not have put it better!!

Action in the shape of a 'skelped dock' is called for by parents of some of their offspring's as they may think they are big enough to make trouble but their wee brains have yet to mature, in my opinion!

Please grow up and behave as ambassadors of ICT!!

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Was the same ones it always is and to be honest, I'm surprised they've not been slapped with a ban....maybe it's what's needed....it would be totally justified, IMO, as they have had ample warning.

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Completely agree with CaleyD and absent friend on this one. Mr CaleyJag and I enjoy the banter as much as the next person but choose to sit nearer the front so that we know that we will get an uniterrupted view of the game. Don't get me wrong Mr Caleyjag likes to shout encouragement at our players and shall we say advise linesman and referees when he feels they need to open their eyes but he has never been approached by a steward regarding his shouting or the fact that he sometimes stands to shout. Compare this to one guy I heard shouting behind us around 3 times in the first five minutes 'You f****** c***'. What does that achieve? How is that supporting our team? I get that folk want to stand but the fact of the matter is that we're not supposed to. The majority of our fans can enjoy a game sitting and the others are just ruining it for themselves.

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I have never really been one for slagging our own fans as I believe we should stick together but on this one I have to agree 100% with everyone above, some of the behaviour at times this season is stupid, we all know how it works at football now a days and it's been that way for decades now. It's about time people started growing up and realising that they are ambassadors for their team when they are in the crowd.

Whether or not you agree with the stewards it doesn't matter, start getting street wise and act like you would expect others to act around you. Stop spoiling it for others who are their to chear on ICT and get behind them as ultimately the way you act reflects on them and spoils it when the stewards pile in. You wouldn't act like that on the street on a night out for fear of being lifted so don't do it at games.

Like Caleyjag said above I love to get involved as much as everyone else and a bit more than some but I have never attracted the attention of stewarts or police and I jump about and stand and shout etc but I sit further down the front.

The guy who Caleyjag was talking about in particular should be ashamed, your choice of language at a game where there were so many youngsters sitting in front of us was shocking, there were 2,3 and 4 year olds sitting there. Once or twice I swore but I rained it in, I'd be surprised if you even remember it tbh.

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We sat near the front away from most so i didn't see any of the goings on, shame folk pay ?22 quid to see a match and can't just watch the football without acting like muppets.

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To the op was not totally one sided. Yes we have some that are not angels but stewards were rude on saturday and seemed to revel in the fact there was no police in attendance. I was sitting down and turned round at one point to see what was going on and was told to f........ turn round or I would be f..... next and the aberdeen fans were allowed to stand up for the whole match!. Then at half time a few folk moved into the sunny section beside us including the bus drivers and were all moved back when they were doing nothing wrong.

It is about time that clubs treated paying customers as such. didnt realise that G4s bus in the same gang of stewards no matter where we go and despite what the op says the bigger supports dont get treated like this. If the no standing rule is to upheld well ALL the teams should get treated the same for Fairness.

Anyway in really happy mood tonight after the result and had a laugh after the game with our own professional stewards so moving on but wont go back to pitodrie again.

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If it's entirely the fault of all the different stewards and stewarding companies at all the grounds in the SPL then why is it the same few people who seem to be getting themselves thrown out at every game? If the stewarding was that bad everywhere then surely we'd have far more ejections spread across a far larger group of people?

I've stuck up for people who have been ejected in the past where I felt stewarding was OTT and it was unnecessary, and there's little doubt that people who might otherwise not have been troubled by stewards are getting caught in the cross-fire at the moment....but it's all getting a bit out of hand and all that's going to happen is that the few will cause even more problems for the many as clubs start to clamp down on our support because we have some guys who are simply out to cause trouble.

What's even more worrying is that they wear an ejection like some kind of badge of honour and are given justification by fans who are older and should be a little wiser with comments that suggest it's ok because the other side were doing it and they were worse than us....it's that kind of justification that's spread the problems faced by the OF down through the generations and whilst I would never put standing or general swearing into the same category as sectarianism and bigotry it is the thin end of the wedge.

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Don't agree with OP I'm afraid.

I was one of the people to be ejected, and don't get me wrong, I am not proud of it, in fact I'm bloody p1ssed off. I did not start any of the chants and I did not make any attempt to cause any problems, I was merely joining in with the singing as I do at every away game. Midway through the first half I was standing in the middle of the row when a steward pulled me out by my arm. Bemused as to what I had done I asked, what the hell have I done?

"Right, that's you failed the attitude test." was the reply I got back. After the detail taking process was complete, I again asked why I was pulled out, out of everyone in the crowd. Apparently, I was just the unlucky one. He then said that my details would be passed on to ICT.

How is it fair that my details would be passed on for just being unlucky? Since when is it a crime to enjoy yourself by singing at a football game? One of the other guys was chucked out for standing up to take his phone out of his pocket. And they wonder why attendances are falling?

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if folk have stewarding problems, get their name/badge number and report them to whatever company they work for and complain about their treatment of the people they arre there to protect not abuse, if they wanted to be in a position of proper power they should have joined the police instead of the yellow jacket brigade.

or, like most of the fans in scotland/around the world:

  1. pay your money
  2. SIT IN YOUR SEAT ALLOCATED
  3. cheer good play and don't shout abusive language at opposition fans/players

is that really too much to ask?

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I really wasn't going to get involved in this, as I am aware that opinions are polarised and anything that I say will not make a jot of difference (much like anything I said to the Stewards on Saturday) I am a wee bit surprised at Caley D's attitude on this one, it's a bit sactimonious and to be fair, I didn't see him at Aberdeen so his judgements may be based on the observations of others. There is no case for banning anyone, or for Senior Mods to be suggesting so.If the ejected are reported to ICT, and a reason given for their ejection from the ground by the stewards I would have to regard that as unreliable and unenforceable without the intervention of the local Polis. They certainly couldn't be regarded as impartial and empathic in their treatment of paying customers of whatever persuasion.

As far as the OP goes, I do sympathise but there is a history of "industrial" language being used at matches and on Saturday it was widespread and frequent - I doubt if that will change at any time soon in response to any group of fans watching what was served up. It's what Roy Keane referred to as the "prawn sandwiches" syndrome. I agree that the F&C combination was wearing, it was used by a friend of ours in the first 10 minutes and he was asked to desist after it was noticed that he was offending people.He did. The lads language was no worse than that of the steward who ejected him later for standing when the row in front of him were also standing, and his behaviour infinitely better. As above, there is no case to be disgusted at the behaviour of our fans; they are just a cross section of a wider society and will neither conform nor probably recognise yours (or my) moral standards. They have their own, and these will be influenced by asking them to change at the time of offence, not sniping anonymously on an internet forum.

The problem wasn't actually with the standing, it was with the fact that Stewards (especially the lady one) were engaging people in confrontational conversations about sitting/ standing/ being in the sunshine, being treated differently from Aberdeen fans, speaking back when they had (largely) paid more money to get in etc. It was very, very unneccessary and some of the things being said to "offenders" were so innacurate they really did need countering. The unfortunate corrollory of this is that when this stuff was countered (no matter how temperately) people were ejected. It's right that this is not the first time, and complaints about stewarding misbehaviour have been proven and upheld - a St. Mirren one was dismissed for his behaviour. It's also true that the same people crop up again and agin (IHE where are you? I need you to make me look good here) are they simply the ones who refuse to be herded according to the whims of stewards? I think that there were, by the end, more people in the Caley Golf Club than in the away stand. And for what? And they were'nt foul mouthed yobs of limited intelligence either - or exclusively young or inebriated as has been hinted at. Just a cross section of folk who went to a game and were unlucky enough to be randomly targetted, and whose only fault was to be more visible than those prepared to put up with the nonsense.

It is indicative of the insularity of our support that they believe that this "problem" is unique to ICT. Please just take a trip through Pie&Bovril and you will find similar threads from every SPL club excepting the OF for obvious reasons. The suggestion from GMD that "most fans in the world" adhere to his guidance is disproved easily by watching any game on telly, from Old trafford to Munich to Barcelona. Sitting peacefully? I think not and neither was the entire Celtic support last night. I don't remember us having the same problem in Div 1, or having a bad reputation in Div 1. It really does appear to be a problem that has arisen all over Scotland this year in the SPL, and I think that only the Stewarding Companies and their controllers can answer why.

I spent nearly ?120 on Saturday to have to take as much time looking over my shoulder as I did watching the match. I was worried about my kid (one of your "bouncy bouncy brigade") Is it worth going anymore to be herded as unquestioning cattle in a hostile environment and then labelled disgracefulby your fellow fans? I really don't know anymore.

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I don't understand why everyone is so concerened by what other fans do at the game, surely your there for your own enjoyment, you dont have to bother about anyone else. If you are getting bothered by it then move, its not hard!

In regards to the stewarding....personally I have no problem with just about anything that goes on in the stadium (fan wise) as for years its been part and parcel of football. But the boys know every week they are going to get hassle about standing, so why do it? I agree that its wrong, but theres no point in arguing with the stewards, they're not going to turn round and say "after listening to your reasoned argument, you can stand for the rest of the game" They will all just see it as attitude and you'll be out the door sooner. This sense of injustice about how the old firm do it and etc etc is nonsense. Its very hard to chuck out 2500 drunken, abusive and aggressive old firm fans, than it is to chuck out a couple of young lads out of a small friendly crowd.

My thoughts are its absolutley ridiculous what some people are getting chucked out for and it does spoil the atmosphere. But you know its going to happen time and time again. So stop playing the victim and coming on here saying its so unfair. It is unfair, but its not going to change!

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I really wasn't going to get involved in this, as I am aware that opinions are polarised and anything that I say will not make a jot of difference (much like anything I said to the Stewards on Saturday) I am a wee bit surprised at Caley D's attitude on this one, it's a bit sactimonious and to be fair, I didn't see him at Aberdeen so his judgements may be based on the observations of others. There is no case for banning anyone, or for Senior Mods to be suggesting so.If the ejected are reported to ICT, and a reason given for their ejection from the ground by the stewards I would have to regard that as unreliable and unenforceable without the intervention of the local Polis. They certainly couldn't be regarded as impartial and empathic in their treatment of paying customers of whatever persuasion.

Davie, I was posting as a fan, not as a Senior Mod of the forum....I do make it very clear when I put that hat on.

I may not have been at the Aberdeen game, but that doesn't mean I'm not allowed an opinion, and it doesn't mean I'm not sick to the back teeth of the same few going out of their way to be troublesome and who get a rise out of winding up the Stewards. I stood outside the pub in Perth earlier in the season and listened whilst they were all joking about it and having bets to see which of them was going to be first to be ejected from that game!!!

If it was one or two incidents at one or two grounds and not the same guys week in week out then you could argue an isolated incident...but it's not.

What's more, I sat in a meeting with some of the young lads not all that long ago and backed them to the hilt...how much of a feckin mug was I, the very next away game and they're being ejected again and it was entirely their own fault.

Maybe if parents didn't let their kids go to (or take them too) games and allow them get pissed up beforehand then it might help a bit.

As far as the OP goes, I do sympathise but there is a history of "industrial" language being used at matches and on Saturday it was widespread and frequent - I doubt if that will change at any time soon in response to any group of fans watching what was served up. It's what Roy Keane referred to as the "prawn sandwiches" syndrome. I agree that the F&C combination was wearing, it was used by a friend of ours in the first 10 minutes and he was asked to desist after it was noticed that he was offending people.He did. The lads language was no worse than that of the steward who ejected him later for standing when the row in front of him were also standing, and his behaviour infinitely better. As above, there is no case to be disgusted at the behaviour of our fans; they are just a cross section of a wider society and will neither conform nor probably recognise yours (or my) moral standards. They have their own, and these will be influenced by asking them to change at the time of offence, not sniping anonymously on an internet forum.

I've seen people ask these guys quite politely to tone down and all they get in return is the abuse and filth they were asked to desist from being directed at them instead...I've seen stewards try to deal with the issue with a soft touch and get the same.

I don't think anyone is asking for, or expecting, people to sit quietly the whole game or to not swear (I'm as guilty as the next of the odd expletive or outburst). What they are saying is don't go looking for trouble or make it worse by acting like a twat.

The problem wasn't actually with the standing, it was with the fact that Stewards (especially the lady one) were engaging people in confrontational conversations about sitting/ standing/ being in the sunshine, being treated differently from Aberdeen fans, speaking back when they had (largely) paid more money to get in etc. It was very, very unneccessary and some of the things being said to "offenders" were so innacurate they really did need countering. The unfortunate corrollory of this is that when this stuff was countered (no matter how temperately) people were ejected. It's right that this is not the first time, and complaints about stewarding misbehaviour have been proven and upheld - a St. Mirren one was dismissed for his behaviour. It's also true that the same people crop up again and agin (IHE where are you? I need you to make me look good here) are they simply the ones who refuse to be herded according to the whims of stewards? I think that there were, by the end, more people in the Caley Golf Club than in the away stand. And for what? And they were'nt foul mouthed yobs of limited intelligence either - or exclusively young or inebriated as has been hinted at. Just a cross section of folk who went to a game and were unlucky enough to be randomly targetted, and whose only fault was to be more visible than those prepared to put up with the nonsense.

I don't condone Stewards speaking to fans with anything other than a civil tongue, and to be honest, they should be trained/expected to remain civil regardless of what is coming at them....but that's easier said than done and it's not all that surprising when stewards end up giving as good as they get. We've all been there, in a situation where we're so riled up that the next person that comes along, regardless of who or how polite they are ends up coping an earful.

Getting in the face of someone you have already identified as being unreasonable and trying to dictate rules or logic to them (politely or otherwise) is fruitless in these situations....and that works two ways. Unfortunately for the fans, the only person with the power to remove someone from the situation is the steward and they're not going to remove themselves. It's not right, not by a long shot, but by retaliating you are only fanning the flames and making the situation worse.

What's more, we all know that when you have a group partaking of an activity that people have already been asked to refrain from, they are going to move in and pick off either the ring leaders, the easy targets or the silly wee lad who's trying to make a name for himself among his peers and doesn't know when to give it up for his own good.

If you're going to be a smart arse and play these kinds of games with authority figures (been there done that, still do on occasion) then you have to have the wherewithal to know when you've reached the line and it's time to pull back and let things cool off. Of course, if the idea is that you have a bet with your mates that you can be first one thrown out the door, then you're obviously not playing within any kind of rules.

It is indicative of the insularity of our support that they believe that this "problem" is unique to ICT. Please just take a trip through Pie&Bovril and you will find similar threads from every SPL club excepting the OF for obvious reasons. The suggestion from GMD that "most fans in the world" adhere to his guidance is disproved easily by watching any game on telly, from Old trafford to Munich to Barcelona. Sitting peacefully? I think not and neither was the entire Celtic support last night. I don't remember us having the same problem in Div 1, or having a bad reputation in Div 1. It really does appear to be a problem that has arisen all over Scotland this year in the SPL, and I think that only the Stewarding Companies and their controllers can answer why.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that the problem is unique to ICT, however the "But Mr, they were worse than us" line of defence is pathetic and childish.

It's also obvious that trying to tackle the issue "on the ground" at games with stewards is not working (and never likely to), so why keep hitting your head against that brick wall? I've lost count of the number of times I've said it on here and conversations I've had with people where I've suggested that they take a different approach to it. Get the name/SAA Badge number of the Steward and report it...the Supporters Trust have offered/asked that fans do this via them if they feel they are not getting anywhere with other establishments.

In fact, if fans (of all teams) were willing to start taking that kind of approach then we might actually start to get somewhere in terms of dealing with over zealous stewarding. However, so long as the continue to see steward baiting as some kind of sport and getting into bother at games then it's all pretty much a waste of time and effort.

I spent nearly ?120 on Saturday to have to take as much time looking over my shoulder as I did watching the match. I was worried about my kid (one of your "bouncy bouncy brigade") Is it worth going anymore to be herded as unquestioning cattle in a hostile environment and then labelled disgracefulby your fellow fans? I really don't know anymore.

As I said above "Fly with the Crows, get shot with the Crows". It may not be right, fair or just...but it's something which holds true in every walk of life, not just at football matches.

Even if you buy the argument that it's always the fault of the stewards, then is it not time that people realised they were losing the fight and started handling the situation in a different way?

IMO, there's 3 or 4 guys who are the main issue. Remove them from the equation and I think the rest of these lads could easily go along to a game, have some great craic, even do a bit of standing and chanting/singing and, for the most part, never be bothered by more than a passing word from the stewards. After all, other groups within our support seem to manage it.

Just so it's clear, that's my thoughts/opinions as a fan, not as a Senior Moderator or in any other capacity.

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There seems to be a fairly simple, if likely to be protracted, solution to all this. Complain to the Club direct, each and every time, if you sincerely believe you are justified in doing so.

For example, this is taken directly from the AFC website Supporters Charter:

9. Customer Service

9.1 The club strives to provide value for money in all areas of its business

9.1.1 The Club seeks to achieve the highest level of service.

9.1.2 The Club will treat customers with respect and courtesy.

9.1.3 The Club guarantees that all messages on its automatic telephone answering service will be current.

9.1.4 The Club responds promptly to any contact from a customer.

9.1.5 To avoid confusion Aberdeen Football Club prefers all complaints to be made in writing by e-mail, fax or letter and will respond in form. In the first instance we encourage customers to contact the department relevant to their query and the department concerned is committed to acknowledge any letter of complaint within 3 working days of receipt and will endeavour to provide a full response within 10 days.

9.1.6 If your complaint has not been dealt with speedily and efficiently by the department concerned, then recourse is again in writing to:

Duncan Fraser

Managing Director

Aberdeen Football Club plc

Pittodrie Stadium

Pittodrie Street

ABERDEEN

AB24 5QH

Telephone Number:01224 650 400

Facsimile Number:01224 650 460

Source: http://www.afc.co.uk...pportersCharter

I would expect that the term "customer" to refer to both home and away fans since we have all had to purchase a ticket / pay for admission at some point. Make sure the complaint is in writing and if you don't get a response, there is an offer for the complainant to correspond direct with the Managing Director.

You may be sceptical and think "what's the point? I'll just get fobbed off with some paltry excuse" but there are two things here - strength of evidence and volume of correspondence. If 5 people all wrote in about an incident then it lends weight to the complaint. Be sure to take the name of the steward or stewards at the time - after all, according to the back of their jackets on Saturday, they were there to help!

By the way, I am NOT suggesting collusion. Like cheating at exams, it can be usually be found out quite quickly. But if you really feel that strongly that you have been badly dealt with, then do something positive about it.

Make the complaint relevant - there is little point in justifying rule breaking and even less so if it is contrasted with "well the Aberdeen fans got away with it". It wouldn't work in a court to justify being caught speeding by claiming that everyone else does it and then expect to be let off! So, make the complaint more to do with the way the stewards were confrontational, used abusive language and were unwilling to listen to reason and seemed intent on using harsh penalties from the off.

Every single SPL club has a website and most, if not all, will have a similar charter in place - here's ours: http://www.ictfc.co....2214411_1002424

You will note that we only invite emails to an Admin account and not to the MD himself!

If you are going to moan then moan to someone who can do something about it, otherwise it is just pointless whining.

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Oh sorry absent friend i forgot that tryin to start chats at a FOOTBALL game is shameful. Its not like we r singin racist songs and u r sayin u ashamed, we have done nothing wrong so stop monning because it is not going to change anything!!

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In reply to foolphysio I have done as suggested. However complained to Hibs about a certain steward earlier in season but no reply was received> However the Hibs fans received replies and it just contained a recitation of the rules so dont expect much this time.

This time however I did feel more vunerable due to the lack of police. Have been doing a bit of homework on this and am contimuing to do so. The stewards were much ruder than usual and wonder if this was a factor. However after last night nothing can upset me today. BTW had a great laugh with our stewards after the match in the bar last night. What a difference a bit of civility and humour makes. Wonder if ACE train their personel differently to G4S or is it jsut that its local guys working for a local firm?

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OCG, ICT have been working a good bit on fan/steward relations and I know that they regularly speak to both personally. This has resulted in the more experienced/better suited stewards being deployed in areas where they are most effective (both in dealing with and issues and preventing them in the first place). It also means that the fans who like to be a bit more animated etc at the games are better educated in terms of where the lines are and what is and is not acceptable. This is/was something that was instigated by the Supporters Trust, who also meet regularly with the club and attend the above meetings, to raise and discuss any wider issues that have come to their attention.

Not saying it's perfect, but in terms of communication things are certainly moving in the right direction and (hope I'm not tempting fate) we now see far fewer complaints about the stewarding situation at TCS.

Maybe, given the improved relationship here, it might be an idea for the Club/Supporters Trust to have a couple of our own Stewards attend some away games as independent observers and similar discussions could be held with the Away Fans having the problems as has been had with the home fans. As the observers would be qualified in the profession then any communication to away clubs that resulted from this would perhaps carry a bit more weight.

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I stood at the very back row until the steward asked me to sit. I did this but pointed out the simple fact that a matter of feet away people were standing in exactly the same row but wearing red. Tuff was the answer. Fair enough. For the rest off the game I stood when we all did, be it at the front or the back, when we went close or to show appreciation for some good play. Then at 1615 I had to stand to get my phone out of my pocket, once I took it out I sat back down only to be asked " Can I have a word over here please sir". I was advised as I has stood up I was being asked to leave. I was then advised that I was unfortunate as they were going to throw people out starting from the right and work their way along and my seat was first.

It may be all that crow stuff Mr D but we can we really no longer stand when we have a chance or a corner? Soon we will not be able to stand to get to the toilet.

On a side note, can anyone answer why it is safe to stand and walk anywhere at half time?

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GJ, That is precisely the thing I am talking about when I say the actions of the few screw things up for the many.

When the stewards/safety officer or whoever has been wound up or pushed so far that they then implement a zero tolerance reaction then "innocents" are doubtless going to be caught in the cross-fire.

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