Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

scottish independence yes or no

55 posts in this topic

Posted

are you all going to vote yes for a scottish independence 2014

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Heart says yes. Head probably says no.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Bizarre that a coalition with absolutely no democratic mandate in Scotland is trying to dictate the terms of our future choice.

Of the elected Scottish politicians, 188 in total (129 MSPs and 59 MPs), the twins of evil muster 32 between them! A mere17% of the electoral representation. You have a SoS for Scotland who is arguing against his own partys policy regarding voting age entitlement and a Prime Minister that is desperate for Scotland to be independent to insure a Thatcheresque future for his beloved nation!

Freedom and self determination is being offered in late 2014. Do we, as a nation, have the courage to grasp it or are we destined to leave our childrens futures in the hands of others?

My head says yes, my heart says yes.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Way way way more in favour of more devolution (for the Counties of England too, if they want it). Independence? No idea. I don't think nationhood and patriotism is that heavily linked with governmenthood to begin with (were the Scots less patriotic in 1974 without any form of devolved government?). Besides which, is any nation truly independent? Especially when it means almost certainly becoming more involved with the EU (something I'm in favour of but doubt most people are). Then there are the costs and rigmarole of splitting up the armed forces, the civil service etc etc etc.

I'd be pretty annoyed if the Tory Party decided that more devolution wasn't on the agenda but it's by far the best solution to me. 50:50 between independence and the status quo.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Here is my thoughts. Until the previous snp coalition government, i think that the majority of people were quite sceptical about a party that seemed too just want independance for Scotland. As they arguably were a successful term in power, although shared, i think it gave the public confidence to vote for a landslide victory, as we seem to be better off with a party that is genuinely in it for the better of Scotland, and not out to give Englandshire the yes sir.

As they again seem to be looking out for Scotland first, i really think that all the other parties are playing into the nationalist hands. Torries will never be forgiven in Scotland for the Thatcher era, and Cameron aint doing anything to change that feeling. Lib Dems will pay for their jumping into bed with the Torries big style, which leave Labour, who are the blind leading the blind at the moment, and I think people will remember they didnt cause the recession but certainly didnt help the recession. The Central belt disillusionment with the other parties is making the SNP much better supported and more powerful. I would prefer to be away from London, but realise it would not be easy, as most of our systems are interlinked. But hey that also gives us a basis, and the chance to improve the systems. Scots law, police and health services are already better than our rulers, so why not everything else. I would happily pay a little bit more tax to help our country establish itself, but I am also aware that it would have been easier if London hadnt taken our due from the North Seas, but all is mot lost, we can still be a successful independant nation, just like our Scandanavian neighbours.

So I would say YES, if we are given the chance. I also see the irony of Cameron, and his party of minimal support in Scotland, trying to tell us what to do. IF Englandshire wasnt getting the better end of the anglo relationship, why are these English parties so keen for us to not leave the table. If as they say they fund us and we couldnt survive, why are they so happy to keep the Scottish noose around their necks?

At the end of the day, I think they see Scotland being a better nation with out them. I have so many friends and colleagues who have moved north of the border, and they all say they are better of here for so many reasons.

We will never know if we dont try, and all the signs look good so far

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I would vote for independence

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

It's a difficult one. As a general principle I would like to see more integration as ultimately that should be the best way to get the kind of international cooperation required to manage the problems of resource depletion, overpopulation, climate change etc which threaten the future prosperity of this planet. Small nations will be never be able to defend themselves against the military or economic power of larger nations. It is strange how in science fiction, other civilisations always tend to have a singe world government rather than planets populated by a vast range of nations speaking different languages and warring with each other. It is as though there is something in the subconcious that tells us that a single world government is what we should be aspiring to.

That's 2114 sorted - so what about 2014? I am one of the thousands of English immigrants who came up here and decided to stay because it is better here. In the short term I would be perfectly happy with independence. I think we have had much more responsive and sensitive Government since we've had devolution and I think that if that was extended to areas of Government currently reserved for the UK Government, things would improve further. It also seems wrong that Scotland should be controlled by financial policy dictated by a party which the Scots don't vote for - and I don't see that changing any time soon.

A concern is that if financial policy is dictated by the party of the English majority, increasingly we will get a raw deal from the carve up of resource. At the moment we don't do too badly but that will be partly because Westminster wants to keep us sweet so that we don't go our own way. If we don't vote for independence we will see financial settlements which are less favourable and we won't get the chance to vote again for a long time.

In many ways my heart says yes and my head says "I don't know". 2014 is still some way away and frankly I'll be glad just to be alive by then. Assuming I am, I will listen to the arguments for and against and make my mind up then.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

If/when the referendum comes, I just can't see independence happening. I can this "devo max" option doing quite well, but independence? Can't see it myself.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Terry Butcher definately gets my vote at next election...... think he must be a Scottish Nationalist now!

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Nah Butchers a Tory....

I will probably vote yes in the referendum. I just worry that the Highlands will get a raw deal in an independant Scotland so I would like to here more assurances.

It does make my blood boil the way the unionist parties are going about their business right now. Some of the Scottish newspapers and media annoy me. The media will dictate the outcome. For example, the Scotsman constantly refers to 'breaking up Britain' rather than independance. Then there's the tabloids - the Sun is a Tory paper and the Record a Labour paper. Constantly on the attack of 'breaking up Britain'.

The lies that were spewed out by Tory MPs about the alternative vote will be the same again and the SNP will have a fight on their hands.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

What would the remaining union of England, Wales and NI be called? The Disunited Kingdom? Little Britain?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

What would the remaining union of England, Wales and NI be called? The Disunited Kingdom? Little Britain?

Greater England? Or perhaps just England for short.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

No. Simple as.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

No, I simply don't see any huge benefits from independence,I'm sure we are perfectly capable of running our own show,but the dismantling and redistribution of services,power etc would be massive.Possibly more devolved powers, but then we must accept less intervention in English matters,I'd be raging if Scots MP's were voting on issues in England that effected me if i'd the misfortune to be English :wink:

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Nah Butchers a Tory....

I can assure you it's feasible to be a tory and support seperation.

I will probably vote yes in the referendum. I just worry that the Highlands will get a raw deal in an independant Scotland so I would like to here more assurances.

Consider this, where are the roots of the SNP? Where are SNP MPs constituencies? I realise this means little when we get Independence as they will more than likely splinter into a broader range of parties such as we have at Westminster but why would you think we'd get a rawer deal than we do at the moment from Westminster?

It does make my blood boil the way the unionist parties are going about their business right now. Some of the Scottish newspapers and media annoy me. The media will dictate the outcome. For example, the Scotsman constantly refers to 'breaking up Britain' rather than independance. Then there's the tabloids - the Sun is a Tory paper and the Record a Labour paper. Constantly on the attack of 'breaking up Britain'.

Britain is already broke/broken and it will be easier to fix Scotland from within without being dictated to and having our hands tied behind our backs.

Look at how our Parliament is performing, we received less from Westminster than we contributed last year and we have free prescriptions, care for the elderly, buses for the pensionable, tuition fees, etc.

Imagine what could have if we didn't have to subsidise all those MPs & Lords with all the expenses they claim, aircraft carriers without aircraft, trident, the olympics, etc..

The lies that were spewed out by Tory MPs about the alternative vote will be the same again and the SNP will have a fight on their hands.

Yes but can the BBC have a televised debate on Independence and exclude the SNP? We are fortunate enough to have the best political leader in the UK at the moment and I can assure you he will present a compelling campaign. It's starting already.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

What would the remaining union of England, Wales and NI be called? The Disunited Kingdom? Little Britain?

Little Britain Indeed .......

post-2-0-10858100-1326375220.jpg

Personally, I would support an independent Scotland and if I still lived in the country would vote accordingly. The union of the home countries is largely irrelevant these days given that each country, and even the regions within those countries have differing needs, wants and requirements. It cant even be argued that the Union makes the UK a major power these days either militarily or economically.

However, independence, to my mind would be independence in name only .... as very few countries could be classed as truly independent these days given that corporations and massive companies are truly the masters and overseers of the global economy. Scotland might be "independent" in legal terms, and might get to make all its own laws instead of just some of them, but it would also be part of (The United States of) Europe and by virtue of that still subject to the agreements and laws that come out of Brussels/Strasbourg. It would still be part of NATO, United Nations and various other bodies that would dictate or expect certain things, and independent or not, it would still presumably maintain a very "special relationship" with the major western powers which would influence its decisions in a major way.

Given the history of the country, which like it or not, is undeniably meshed with the other home countries, especially England, it would likely also be a relationship that's somewhat akin to Canada/USA ...

Canada can be weird in some eyes as a country. It IS an independent country, with its own laws, traditions, legal and banking systems (the safest in the world during the recession according to experts), but the Queen is head of state so its tied to the UK very closely. However, its closest relationship must be viewed as with the USA given the proximity and similarity of the peoples.

In many places in Canada - along the border especially - US currency is accepted as if it were Canadian, and until the last couple of years, even in a post-911 world, Canadian citizens could cross the border in about 5 minutes using nothing more than photo ID (driving license) whereas someone like me - with a Canadian driving license, but a UK passport - had to go into the customs area, fill out a form, get photo/fingerprints taken (and pay US$6 for the privilege), answer a few questions, before getting a "visa waiver" form stapled into my passport ... you get the drift. Its still easier for Canadians to get across the border. They do have to use a passport now, but other than that, they are still "special". I would see "Scottish Citizens" and "English Citizens" having a similar special relationship if independence ever came to fruition.

I think Scotland could be a very successful country in its own right. We have always been a nation of engineers, explorers and innovators. We also have vast - perhaps limitless - reserves of a couple of commodities that will become much more important as North Sea oil/gas and other fuel reserves run out across the globe ...... Water and Wind !

The future importance of both fresh and salt water is not to be underestimated - so much so that the Russians, Americans and Canadians regularly do some posturing up in the Arctic to "claim" their territories. Water is of course also a source of power generation, especially if you have a rugged landscape suitable for hydro generation, or for harnessing storms or tides for wave power. The same can be said for wind power. Ok, it takes a mountain of turbines to generate electricity now ... but going back to the engineering and innovation roots of the Scottish people .... when needs be, we will be at the forefront of making it all more efficient and workable so the argument of what to do when the oil runs out is a false one in my mind.

Bottom line for me is that the world will run the way the world runs and we will all generally fall into line with that regardless of where our seat(s) of government is/(are) ..... but if an independent Scotland, with a parliament in Scotland, making decisions for Scotland, and in Scotland's interests as a small country of 5m people, can do that better than a parliament in Westminster making decisions for a larger area and having to cater to the desires of 60m people then I am all for it !!!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Yes....for a whole host of reasons, but mostly because I think we get a raw deal from Westminster. Don't think it's intentional, there's just a lot about Scotland they just don't get and as such I am of the belief that we would be better served by standing on our own and making decisions for ourselves.

I don't for one second believe it will all be plain sailing, but nothing that's worth having ever is.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

YES YES YES, I have voted SNP since I was 18, 54 now! We can easy govern our own country and the bigest saving would be the money wasted in both houses at Westminster, Trident and ilegall wars. Looking forward to 2014.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I remember Winnie Ewing doing door to door lobbying when I was a kid - gave me a wee yellow SNP badge - that was enough to sell Nationalism to me

here`s hoping we`ll see the SNP alive with the re- birth of our nation.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

No .

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

No .

Thought you'd be happy to reverse the merger. :tongueincheek:

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Refer

are you all going to vote yes for a scottish independence 2014

Not a coincidence that the` battle of bannockburn ` was 1314 so a 700 year anniversary to celebrate as well as voting back independance

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I have a vague recollection of a thread on here a few years ago where someone (maybe Charles Bannerman) predicting Independence in 2014!!!!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

i can see all the disabled people and students make the yes vote go though in 2014 in scotland after what clegg and cameron done to them

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

100% yes

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.