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Rangers go into administration

Have we lost out on cash

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#1 KingBeastie

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 03:21 PM

Here:
http://news.stv.tv/s...administration/

#2 Libero

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 03:21 PM

hearing reports that Rangers FC lawyers have signalled an intention to go into administration. Cant say i didnt see this coming although with the impending HMRC case drawing nearer is it a case of jumping before they were pushed?

#3 SMEE

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 03:29 PM

I heard inside info months ago that this was going to happen...from sources working on the case. No shock to me. I also watched a BBC Inside Scotland specail, some months ago, and it was suggesting this is EXACTLY what Rangers owner would bizzarely be wanting to happen. And here it is, hes got his way. Question is...what happens next to Rangers?

#4 Libero

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 03:34 PM

I wonder if this is some ploy to get around the tax case? If they had heard they were going to lose the case, would entering administration mean they arent legally bound to pay the HMRC seeing as they dont have the money/assets to do so?

#5 lukemackay

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 03:37 PM

well celtic have won the league now
what point dedution will be given 10?
no surprise next season rangers will definatly struggle im presumeing there will be no naismith, mcgregor, davis, whittaker, or lafferty so scottish footballs fate in europe will solely rest on celtic and the teams in the europa league cant say its a good thing but at the same time it fairly opens the league up

#6 old caley girl

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 03:48 PM

Not sure this is such good news as Celtic winning almost everything for the next few years could kill our game and be very boring!


#7 RiG

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 03:55 PM

Craig Whyte is a dodgy character. He's been a regular feature in the 'In The Back' section of Private Eye for months now over his 'dealings'. This has been on the cards for some time.

Celtic won't be able to survive without Rangers so I think some of the Celtic fans who are rejoicing at this news are a bit short sighted.

#8 dougiedanger

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 03:57 PM

Not sure this is such good news as Celtic winning almost everything for the next few years could kill our game and be very boring!


Smaller clubs should see this as an opportunity. Those who are the most innovative and who can seize the opportunity will thrive.

#9 Ten4

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 04:00 PM

This is going to be an excellent story to follow now for the rest of the season.
SPL Armegeddon or the rebirth of Scottish Football !

#10 CaleyD

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 04:08 PM

Rangers were always going to go into administration....the only question was "when".

Going into administration does not get them off on the Tax Case as they will have to agree terms with any and all creditors if they wish to exit administration...and you can be sure HMRC aren't going to accept 2p in the pound.

The only thing it does really buy them is a bit of breathing space to come up with a plan that sees the existing company wound up (I think that is also pretty inevitable) and them getting the SPL to agree to transfer membership to whatever company takes its place.

Bizarrely, the financial side of Rangers plight is of little/no consequence to "Scottish Football". The question now is whether or not the SPL bottle it and allow them to continue in the league (and face the inevitable court case that Livingston would file) or if the new company must re-apply for the space vacated in the whole setup and start again from the bottom.....that story will be far more interesting than anything else that goes on from this point forward.

#11 Scotty

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 04:09 PM

I see this as a potential plus point !!!!

Celtic may indeed win the league for a few years, but eventually they too will have to cut their cloth to suit their environment and if that environment has a skint Rangers, and 40 other teams that aren't exactly awash with cash either, then Celtic will also start to spend less, and in the end make the SPL a more competitive product as the gulf between top two and the rest will get smaller !!!

It will also make it a lot more likely that we can get some sensible reconstruction ideas on the table ...... With one of the big two "injured", they may be more amenable to ideas that will ensure self preservation rather than the current stance of doing whats best for the behemoths and f*** the rest.

I wont go into my own take on the owner's reasons for administration, but suffice to say I have read several articles that would suggest the fate of Rangers is following a distinct pattern of other "struggling" businesses he has been involved in. They will either sink, or perhaps he will be the knight on a Whyte horse that does a McCann, restructures the club and leaves them in better shape whilst also making himself a boatload of cash .... I guess we can only watch and wonder ..... One thing however, is that he will get showered with most of the blame ... but like Mr McCann on the other side of the divide, he is only dealing with what the previous regime(s) have failed to deal with for years .... in both cases, they may be the catalyst for change, but neither was the cause of the problem in the first place.

#12 Scotty

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 04:12 PM

Bizarrely, the financial side of Rangers plight is of little/no consequence to "Scottish Football". The question now is whether or not the SPL bottle it and allow them to continue in the league (and face the inevitable court case that Livingston would file) or if the new company must re-apply for the space vacated in the whole setup and start again from the bottom.....that story will be far more interesting than anything else that goes on from this point forward.


We had this on another thread ... but Livi is irrelevant. The established penalty in the SPL has been either nothing (a la Motherwell and Dundee) or a 10 point deduction (like Gretna). Livi were relegated to D3 by the SFL and NOT by the SPL as were Gretna.

Also think the SPL can pull a swift one as they dont have to insist a "new member" works there way up ....


EDIT: There have been 4 SPL teams to go into administration.

1. Motherwell (April 2002 - April 2004). Sanction = NONE
2. Dundee (Nov 2003 - Aug 2004). Sanction = NONE
3. Livingston (Feb 2004 - May 2005). Sanction = NONE
4. Gretna (Mar 2008 - Aug 2008). Sanction = -10Pts

Further punishments to Dundee, Livi and Gretna were meted out by the SFL and NOT by the SPL. In Dundee's case they got hit with that 25 point penalty for going into administration twice. In Livi and Gretna's cases, it was demotion to D3 because they could not guarantee to fulfil fixtures.

Edited by Scotty, 13 February 2012 - 04:21 PM.
adding extra info


#13 KingBeastie

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 04:17 PM

One down, one to go!
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#14 ictchris

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 04:17 PM

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#15 ictchris

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 04:39 PM

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#16 Kirishima

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 04:39 PM

Celtic will be next.

#17 CaleyD

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 04:45 PM

Fair enough on the Livi comparison.

What will be interesting is how the vote goes in terms of retaining Rangers as an SPL club.

Technically speaking the membership would be void if Rangers was wound up in it's current form and the share (which entitles membership) cannot be transferred as such (as per SPL Rules). That means that the replacement would need to submit an application for membership (or be invited).

Not sure what the requirements of that vote would be....does it need only two clubs to block it, or two clubs to approve it or something totally different? Looking at the situation we were in when we got promoted (the first time) it needed only a minority to vote against us, and you would have to assume that any application from a new team would be dealt with in the same way....but won't hold my breath on that.

On that basis, you would think that there's at least 2 or 3 clubs who will have the gonnads to keep them out....but again, nothing is certain, especially when it comes to (perceived) self preservation.

Rangers have no money and upwards of about £80 Million of debt (if you include the tax situation). Nobody is going to bail them out to the tune of £80 Million....and it's hard to think of where they could get funding to satisfy a CVA at a level that the HMRC (or any other major creditor...Ticektus?) would find acceptable.

I get the financial argument for keeping Rangers in the SPL....but what damage would it do elsewhere if all other clubs were to sell out to such an agreement?

#18 Libero

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 04:49 PM

Is there anything to stop Whyte bankrupting/collapsing the club which would see Rangers in its current form cease to exist and then start up a new 'Rangers 2012' type company with no debt?

#19 CaleyD

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 05:06 PM

Is there anything to stop Whyte bankrupting/collapsing the club which would see Rangers in its current form cease to exist and then start up a new 'Rangers 2012' type company with no debt?


IMO, that is exactly what will happen.

They will then buy all required assets to allow them to continue at current location, with current name, from the administrators for next to nothing.

The gamble (for Rangers) is on whether or not the new company would be given membership of the SPL or have to re-apply to start from the bottom....whilst it's unlikely that the SPL would allow them admission to Div3, that would also be at their discretion....and let's face it, they have far less to lose (and a lot more to gain) from seeing Rangers failing to exist altogether.

#20 Yngwie

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 05:10 PM

There are so many implications and connotations for the whole of Scottish football.

But for now, I'm just going to enjoy the moment.
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#21 Scotty

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 05:28 PM

After typing my Livi answer above, I quickly went to the SPL website to check the rules and articles of association, and as CaleyD says, technically, a 'new' Rangers would not be entitled to the SPL membership vacated by the 'old' Rangers but you can be damn sure that these rules would be twisted, modified or bent to the point of breaking, to make sure they were an SPL team. There are enough mentions of "SPL discretion" in there to make sure of that.

Whatever happens, and however things unfold, I get the feeling we are going to see a lot of new precedents set !

#22 Charles Bannerman

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 05:42 PM

Celtic may indeed win the league for a few years, but eventually they too will have to cut their cloth to suit their environment and if that environment has a skint Rangers, and 40 other teams that aren't exactly awash with cash either, then Celtic will also start to spend less, and in the end make the SPL a more competitive product as the gulf between top two and the rest will get smaller !!!


RiG, in slight disagreement, believes that Celtic wouldn't be able to survive without Rangers while Peter Lawwell in complete contrast says that Celtic don't need Rangers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/17013512

My own view is that so much of Scottish football's annual turnover has been sucked in by the Old Firm that if the OF ceased to exist (such as if Rangers went completely bust), this would be bound to have a severe knock on effect on other clubs.
A large amount of the money which circulates in Scottish football is either directly related to Rangers or is generated by the likes of what the TV companies are prepared to pay for SPL rights. In the case of the latter, that would fall dramatically if there was no Old Firm rivalry as an attraction.
For instance how might Caley Thistle do in the absence of one or two home gates every season from the visit of Rangers and also a significant drop in TV money? How much less money would then also cascade down to the SFL? How much less full time football would there be in Scotland as a result? How many fewer senior clubs would there be in Scotland as a result?
Social, religious, politcal and demographic factors in West Central Scotland have led to Scotland having two disproportionately large football clubs with much of the support and money polarised around them. Other clubs live in a fragile bubble just outside that duopoly and to some extent also have to depend on it. Things muddle on for as long as this strangely Faustian arrangement continues, but if it fails - such as with the possible demise of Rangers - then the whole house of cards would be in danger of collapsing.
As I have been writing, this high tech new site has told me that Caley D has just added another reply to which I would say that my understanding also is that the rules would require any "Son of Rangers" to start in the Third Division again. Anything other than that (and I wouldn't rule it out) would be a gross injustice to other clubs who have been disciplined etc.
And as I said in my Highland News column last week, after all those years of hallmark triumphalistic hubris, a certain sector of the Rangers support might indeed learn a little about humility from a journey through the lower leagues and trips to the likes of Alloa, Forfar and...... Central Park Cowdenbeath! :frown:

#23 CaleyD

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 06:06 PM

My own view is that so much of Scottish football's annual turnover has been sucked in by the Old Firm that if the OF ceased to exist (such as if Rangers went completely bust), this would be bound to have a severe knock on effect on other clubs.
A large amount of the money which circulates in Scottish football is either directly related to Rangers or is generated by the likes of what the TV companies are prepared to pay for SPL rights. In the case of the latter, that would fall dramatically if there was no Old Firm rivalry as an attraction.


It would be hard to put an exact figure on just how much of the income other clubs receive is a result of having Rangers/Celtic. However, it;s easy to identify that of the pot that is shared the OF swallow a third of it....in essence, we could lose a third of the income and it would have absolutely zero impact on any other club outside the OF.

For instance how might Caley Thistle do in the absence of one or two home gates every season from the visit of Rangers and also a significant drop in TV money? How much less money would then also cascade down to the SFL? How much less full time football would there be in Scotland as a result? How many fewer senior clubs would there be in Scotland as a result?


As stated above, there's no guarantee of a drop in TV income, and it would be nowhere near the levels that some predict. Let's not forget that what TV gives with one hand, it takes away with another by way of reduced attendances due to being able to sit at home and watch and changed fixtures to days and times which are not practical for many.

Very little cascades down from the SPL to the SFL as it is, so don't buy the argument that things would be much (if any) worse for them than that at present.

Like it or not, Scotland...even with both halves of the OF...can't support the number of full time teams, or even part-time teams it has at the moment. Whilst I would not wish oblivion on any club, a rationalisation of teams competing in the countries top leagues would probably do more harm than good in the long term.

Social, religious, politcal and demographic factors in West Central Scotland have led to Scotland having two disproportionately large football clubs with much of the support and money polarised around them. Other clubs live in a fragile bubble just outside that duopoly and to some extent also have to depend on it. Things muddle on for as long as this strangely Faustian arrangement continues, but if it fails - such as with the possible demise of Rangers - then the whole house of cards would be in danger of collapsing.


And a stronger, more sustainable and entertaining product has the opportunity to rise from the ashes....at least it would create a chance for the long term future of the game here, something which the status quo does not offer.

As I have been writing, this high tech new site has told me that Caley D has just added another reply to which I would say that my understanding also is that the rules would require any "Son of Rangers" to start in the Third Division again. Anything other than that (and I wouldn't rule it out) would be a gross injustice to other clubs who have been disciplined etc.
And as I said in my Highland News column last week, after all those years of hallmark triumphalistic hubris, a certain sector of the Rangers support might indeed learn a little about humility from a journey through the lower leagues and trips to the likes of Alloa, Forfar and...... Central Park Cowdenbeath! :frown:


On this we agree.

One question I do have is, "What would the media do without the Rangers/Celtic saga to report on week in week out?". There's no denying that a very large portion of the sports reporting in this country is made up of articles/stories and features based on these two and without that then some rationalisation of that would be needed. Would it be remiss to suggest that the media would have a vested interest in ensuring Rangers are allowed to continue in one form or other within the SPL and once they've had their pound of flesh from the administration story then things will quickly switch to a "Scottish Football Can't Survive Without Rangers" campaign?

#24 Scotty

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 06:13 PM

My own view is that so much of Scottish football's annual turnover has been sucked in by the Old Firm that if the OF ceased to exist (such as if Rangers went completely bust), this would be bound to have a severe knock on effect on other clubs.

whilst I agree with your notion that the OF have sucked in so much of the turnover, I would argue the opposite in terms of "severe" knock-on effect.

In terms of finances, the SPL dish out cash disproportionately, with a heavy reliance on finishing position. From the SPL's own website you can get the general idea ....

1. All monies go into the pot .. commercial revenue, broadcasting revenue etc etc etc ....
2. From that pot, the SPL pay an amount to the SFL as well as a parachute payment to the most recently relegated clubs.
3. From whats left, every club gets a flat payment of 4% of the pot (48% total)
4. the remaining 52% gets paid out to clubs, but its somewhat skewed ..... Unless it has changed in recent seasons, the team in bottom spot gets 0.5%, 11th gets 1%, 10th gets 1.5% etc ... up to 4th spot which gets 4.5%. The team in 3rd gets 5.5% whilst the team in 2nd gets 11% and the champions get 13%. As we usually know who is going to be 1st and 2nd, that means the OF routinely gobble up 32% of all revenues ......


A large amount of the money which circulates in Scottish football is either directly related to Rangers or is generated by the likes of what the TV companies are prepared to pay for SPL rights. In the case of the latter, that would fall dramatically if there was no Old Firm rivalry as an attraction.

The SPL commercial guidelines for 2011-12 show far more than just TV sponsors ..... Clydesdale, Sky, ESPN, BBC, Sportfive, BBC Alba, STV, IMG, Bauer Radio, GMG Radio, Coca Cola, Thomas Cook, William Hill, Supponor, Mitre, Panini, Sporting ID, Electronic Arts, Sega ......

The TV rights deal with Sky/ESPN (and the worldwide deal with sportfive) does not end until the end of 2013/14 season unless terminated by the SPL as they have the option during 12/13 and 13/14. The Rangers "saga" will be resolved long before then ... and far from diminish the interest, it may focus more interest in seeing what happens !!!

Deals ending this year (or negotiated on a year to year basis) are: BBC Audio, BBC Alba, Bauer Radio (Radio Clyde/MFR), GMG (Real Radio), Supponor (Digital Billboards),

For instance how might Caley Thistle do in the absence of one or two home gates every season from the visit of Rangers and also a significant drop in TV money? How much less money would then also cascade down to the SFL? How much less full time football would there be in Scotland as a result? How many fewer senior clubs would there be in Scotland as a result?

Whilst I do agree with you ... to an extent, I would counter that with asking how much money would ICT save from having to have less police, stewards or other overheads for 2 or 3 matches a year? .... Also, if County come up, then at least initially, I would imagine we would see 2 home games against them per season and those might actually have larger crowds !

Social, religious, politcal and demographic factors in West Central Scotland have led to Scotland having two disproportionately large football clubs with much of the support and money polarised around them. Other clubs live in a fragile bubble just outside that duopoly and to some extent also have to depend on it. Things muddle on for as long as this strangely Faustian arrangement continues, but if it fails - such as with the possible demise of Rangers - then the whole house of cards would be in danger of collapsing. As I have been writing, this high tech new site has told me that Caley D has just added another reply to which I would say that my understanding also is that the rules would require any "Son of Rangers" to start in the Third Division again. Anything other than that (and I wouldn't rule it out) would be a gross injustice to other clubs who have been disciplined etc.

I do agree with you Charles, but for the record, the ONLY club to have been sanctioned by the SPL was Gretna. Motherwell, Livi and Dundee all went into administration whilst members of the SPL and all escaped without punishment. Gretna were deducted 10 points. The other draconian punishments meted out to those clubs were issued by the SFL not the SPL.

Seems my blog entry recalling a conversation with a Rangers supporting colleague may have been timely: http://caleythistleo...just-different/

And as I said in my Highland News column last week, after all those years of hallmark triumphalistic hubris, a certain sector of the Rangers support might indeed learn a little about humility from a journey through the lower leagues and trips to the likes of Alloa, Forfar and...... Central Park Cowdenbeath! :frown:

Its not going to happen. A loophole will be found to keep them in the SPL and the whitewash, or bluewash, will make it seem all too logical !

#25 Charles Bannerman

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 07:02 PM

What I am saying is that in the total absence of Rangers or during such period as they may make their way back up through the SFL, I see no scenario other than Scottish football's turnover reducing and I believe that this would affect ALL clubs.
To try to argue that visits of the OF to Inverness are actually not all that financially beneficial due to police and stewarding costs etc is to a large extent an extrapolation of an argument that Inverness football might have been better staying in the SFL or even in the Highland League!
For the sake of breivty since my piece of chicken was in danger of overcooking in the oven (!) I used the term "disciplined" in a fairly loose manner in my last post. It was really meant as a generic term for the consequences for other clubs of severe financial problems such as Airdrie reforming as Airdrie United and starting all over again via Clydebank's registration, Dundee getting docked 25pts for a second administration, Livi finding themselves back in Division 3 and Gretna getting docked 10 points before their wholly predictable demise. I do realise that there are earlier examples such as Motherwell gong into administration and getting off scot free but my basic point is that IF Rangers actually went out of business, which is an extreme outcome but is the scenario on which I have been basing much of what I have been saying, it would be grossly unjust if "Son of Rangers" were to do anything other than start all over again in D3.
However, the absolute essence of my view is that Scottish football's turnover is so concentrated and polarised on two clubs whose rivalry looms so large on the landscape that if you suddenly remove one of them completely from the scenario I can see no way that some kind of house of cards situation would not befall the rest of the set up.

Edited by Charles Bannerman, 13 February 2012 - 07:13 PM.

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