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Tokely Offski - to Countski


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would love to know the opinion of folk on what the situation would have been in 122 months if he HAD signed? the guy couldn't play forever and it was inevitable he would leave one day..... nobody likes leaving a job but the way some people are going on here you would think they want the club re named after him

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Tokely is long past his best and the contract allegedly offered reflects this!

Players do not go on for ever and money does not come from a bottomless pit!

neksor

At least Captain Untouchable Foran got a good deal though. I would say the same about him that his best is long gone but it doesn't change the fact Tokely was still one of our best players last season.

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Well we are certainly getting diverse perspectives being interchanged now - not only in regard to the "treatment" of Mr Tokely. Some may look at this thread as being the usual forum fare but would Mr Tokely be looking at some of the comments being made by some as potentially being destructive or beyond ?

It is the new world of business sense and acumen against compassion and loyalty - a half way agreement would have been the best.

It will be interesting to see the next chapter if he moves across the Bridge - which I am very reliably informed is being mooted.

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Tokely is long past his best and the contract allegedly offered reflects this!

Players do not go on for ever and money does not come from a bottomless pit!

neksor

At least Captain Untouchable Foran got a good deal though. I would say the same about him that his best is long gone but it doesn't change the fact Tokely was still one of our best players last season.

Out of interest, how do you know Captain Untouchable Foran got a good deal?

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Oh please! Do you really think Butcher would offer anything but the best for his golden boy?!

So nobody knows what kind of deal Foran got then....bar it was a two year one? And even I knew that!

That would make him around the same age, when it is up, as Tokely is now.....so we'll see then how much of a Captain Untouchable he is....won't we?

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Oh please! Do you really think Butcher would offer anything but the best for his golden boy?!

So nobody knows what kind of deal Foran got then....bar it was a two year one? And even I knew that!

That would make him around the same age, when it is up, as Tokely is now.....so we'll see then how much of a Captain Untouchable he is....won't we?

So over the performances of last season you think Foran merited a 2 year deal while Tokely gets his current deal slashed considerably? I would say Tokely had a better season than Foran overall.

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Oh please! Do you really think Butcher would offer anything but the best for his golden boy?!

So nobody knows what kind of deal Foran got then....bar it was a two year one? And even I knew that!

That would make him around the same age, when it is up, as Tokely is now.....so we'll see then how much of a Captain Untouchable he is....won't we?

Age isn't the issue, performances are what matter. As for Foran, I guess it will depend if Butcher is still here in 2 years as to what contract he receives.

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Oh please! Do you really think Butcher would offer anything but the best for his golden boy?!

So nobody knows what kind of deal Foran got then....bar it was a two year one? And even I knew that!

That would make him around the same age, when it is up, as Tokely is now.....so we'll see then how much of a Captain Untouchable he is....won't we?

Age isn't the issue, performances are what matter. As for Foran, I guess it will depend if Butcher is still here in 2 years as to what contract he receives.

Thing is, I have never seen either of them play, to my knowledge, I can only go by posts on this forum, and I am here reading all Match Threads on Match Days (if I remember it is a match day) and listening to the BBC link....and tbh, over the piece, neither of them appear to have regularly covered themselves in glory...but then, I suppose it depends on whether the person posting an opinion is a Foran fan or a Tokely fan.

So failing any other criteria , if neither are playing great, then age has to have an input to any decision as to contracts...stands to reason...doesn't it...or do you give contracts and not just cross your fingers, but also your toes and your legs, that the person who is slowing down this season and approaching 34 will suddenly get a new lease of life next season to warrant the contract he thinks he deserves or do you take a chance that the 31 year old has more chance of coming good next season? (Given that none of us know what money was on offer, just how long the contract was)

Seems to me a no-brainer. .

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What bothers me is....why would a player be so quick to run to the press and basically burn bridges if they didn't already have an alternative in place?

The other thing that's not sitting right is that a month ago it was all about "I want to fight for my place and if I don't get the chance to do that then I am off". Now it's "The contract isn't good enough".

Sounds to me like Tokely was expecting some kind of guarantee that he was going to get games....he never got that (and no player should) and the "Contract isn't good enough" is a way out without admitting to himself/others that he's not sure if he has what it takes to fight for and secure a regular place in the starting line-up.

I don't like the way he and the club are parting company...but the club deserves just as much respect from a player they have supported for 16 years as he does from them. So far I've seen nothing, other than speculation, which shows that the club has treated him unfairly or without respect in regards to the contract offer and HIS decision to leave.

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Oh please! Do you really think Butcher would offer anything but the best for his golden boy?!

So nobody knows what kind of deal Foran got then....bar it was a two year one? And even I knew that!

That would make him around the same age, when it is up, as Tokely is now.....so we'll see then how much of a Captain Untouchable he is....won't we?

Age isn't the issue, performances are what matter. As for Foran, I guess it will depend if Butcher is still here in 2 years as to what contract he receives.

Thing is, I have never seen either of them play, to my knowledge, I can only go by posts on this forum, and I am here reading all Match Threads on Match Days (if I remember it is a match day) and listening to the BBC link....and tbh, over the piece, neither of them appear to have regularly covered themselves in glory...but then, I suppose it depends on whether the person posting an opinion is a Foran fan or a Tokely fan.

So failing any other criteria , if neither are playing great, then age has to have an input to any decision as to contracts...stands to reason...doesn't it...or do you give contracts and not just cross your fingers, but also your toes and your legs, that the person who is slowing down this season and approaching 34 will suddenly get a new lease of life next season to warrant the contract he thinks he deserves or do you take a chance that the 31 year old has more chance of coming good next season? (Given that none of us know what money was on offer, just how long the contract was)

Seems to me a no-brainer. .

People can't be a Foran and Tokely fan? (Or indeed of neither?) I'd imagine most people will simply be fans of the team.

As you say we don't know the figures involved but if there are cuts in the playing budget (and there are) then surely you'd think everyone will have to take a cut of some kind, I'd be appalled if that wasn't the case. However past events would indicate that there are certain player(s) that are held in a 'preferential' status from the manager.

I made all but one home game last season and I don't believe that either played too badly last season on the whole. Foran was very poor (both in attitude and performace) in the earlier parts of the season, mostly when he was up front to be fair but he was the one who said he was gonna score the goals to make up for Rooney iirc. Improved when he dropped back and seemed somewhat back to his previous form. Tokely made mistakes and had a couple of bad games no doubt but he was consistently our most solid defender over the season imo.

If age has to come into contracts in your scenario then are you saying that the older player has to accept that a pay cut is on the cards, thus it would be ok for Foran to not take a cut and Tokely to be given one? Does that apply if one player is 21 and the other 25 or if one player is 6 months older than the other?

Signing any player is taking a chance, if both players are 'slowing down' what difference does it make? Defenders can last a bit longer in the game generally than midfielders (look at Weir) so is 1 year really that big a difference? Tokely will be 33 at the start of next season, Foran will be 32 and seen as age seems to be the deciding factor with you the difference is actually 1 year and 3 months between them FFS!

Nobody goes on forever but I saw nothing to indicate that he wouldn't manage another season in the SPL, but that's just my opinion. Shame as I'd have liked to have seen both players in the squad next season, but sadly that isn't the case. Best of luck to him in the future.

Edit- Spelling.

Edited by fraz
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Thing is, I have never seen either of them play. Seems to me a no-brainer. .

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Match of the Day presented by Stevie Wonder.

I actually think that Foran will be more of an asset to ICT this season than Rosscoe would have been. I have always thought that Rosscoe's best position was at right back and I dont think that he has been the same player since moving to centre half. Foran "suffered" fom having to play in midfield and the Foran/Tansey combination never really gelled. People asked for a Duncan like figure in midfield and that is actually what Foran provided. Foran had a contract in place and not a renewed one - which makes a bit of a difference. I simply wanted to keep hold of Esson, Tokely and Foran because of the need for experience.

What bothers me is....why would a player be so quick to run to the press and basically burn bridges if they didn't already have an alternative in place?

The other thing that's not sitting right is that a month ago it was all about "I want to fight for my place and if I don't get the chance to do that then I am off". Now it's "The contract isn't good enough".

Sounds to me like Tokely was expecting some kind of guarantee that he was going to get games....he never got that (and no player should) and the "Contract isn't good enough" is a way out without admitting to himself/others that he's not sure if he has what it takes to fight for and secure a regular place in the starting line-up.

I don't like the way he and the club are parting company...but the club deserves just as much respect from a player they have supported for 16 years as he does from them. So far I've seen nothing, other than speculation, which shows that the club has treated him unfairly or without respect in regards to the contract offer and HIS decision to leave.

At last you are beginning to put in a sensible response and forgetting about the money, perfromance aspects, personal beefs and the strong club alliance. It bothers me greatly that he went to the press which evidently reeks of reactive anger - so if the final nail in the coffin was fired on the eve of the Hibees match then that is deplorable and I could understand the action, albeit probably not thought through. It could also potentially be that he is telling the truth and attempting to show that there is a draconian regime in office. The "switch" the financial aspect is definitely a contradictory element. The club do deserve a lot of praise becos he could have been ousted 2-3 seasons ago and probably the unavailability of a central defender plus his spirited performance saved his bacon.

Oddquine would probably add that, like me, you are "guessing" and talking from your perspective of the goings on at the club. My "anger" has been expressed and is dissapating but I will always feel that the club is at fault and primarily the manager for the Munro manner in which this has been dealt with and - lets face it - we all have contacts within the club and relatives of players who seep out "feelings".

But as I have allude to before he has been, probably inevitably, linked to Tinkerville and if he chooses to go there - then he is saying something completely different to the loyal support that he has had in the last few years and the last fe weeks.

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Johndo, I don't think you are the only one who is still angry at **insert name here depending on which version of events you choose to believe** for Munro being let go last season and as others have already pointed out, that seems to be getting projected on to this situation....in some cases to an extent where it seems as if people want to be angry. Makes me wonder if some people follow ICT as it gives them a reason to get angry and rant as opposed to having any real affinity with the team.

The ironic thing in all this is that the person who seems least angry and who has long since put it behind them and moved on is Munro himself. That means the only people suffering in any way shape or form are ICT.

Grudges and hard feelings use up far too much energy...learned that one long time ago!!!

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