Owain Tudur Jones

[qwerty11]

i have to feel that fraser's physical size influenced the ref's decision

[Renegade]

I didn't have the best of views of his tackle yesterday and I haven't seen it back yet, but my initial reaction was that it was a bit late. Again, I didn't think it was a red card, but it was a poor challenge. As I mentioned in the Matchday Thread, the Meekings challenge in the first half was the worse of the two.

Moving onto a slightly different topic though, I remember reading last season that Jones was the highest earner at the club. He's currently on a one year deal, so will be out of contract at the end of the season. Is he really worth keeping? His sending off against Killie (whether it was on his "bad knee" or not) was idiotic. I wasn't at the Motherwell game, but supposedly he was rubbish, he has an awful injury record, while others have said his style of play doesn't suit the Scottish game. With that in mind and with this tough economic climate, is he really worth keeping? To be honest, I'd shed no tears if the club chose not to retain him.

Edited September 16, 2012 by Renegade

[CaleyD]

With fans like (some) of ours, what chance have our guys got?

Players that have left/been let go from ICT with a far greater tendency for big, lumbering, unnecessary challenges are lauded over like heroes, whilst the guys here and now are getting pelters and told they shouldn't be pulling on the shirt ever again because of a dubious red card.

Inverness has the team it deserves....in fact, it has a better team than it deserves. If people spent as much time supporting the team as the did criticising it then we'd have the best support in the world!!!

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

The bottom line is that he should not have started. I am going to refer to him as Giraffe from henceforth. His demeanour is lackadaisical, loping and plodding. Like a giraffe he has reached higher heights before and he certainly has the ability to make splendid cross field passes but his head goes down and he looks like a pit pony. I simply do not feel that the hourly burly of the SPL suits his style and I don't think that he has ever been 100% fit and I fear that he never will be.

He surely must have been on the cusp of being hooked anyway - I have been told that he was told this at the break - so perhaps his frustration got the best of him. I was surprised that he got a straight red - it was a bad tackle but without any malice - but again all the feedback suggests that he also mouthed off - and if that was the case he left us all down and should be benched. If however the card was fer the tackle then I would expect an appeal.

This is one that needs to be clarified. Really looking forward to the highlights as I thought that Anderson had got the ball but can also understand why the ref saw it as a straight red from his angle plus he was looking to even thins out - OR WAS HE??

[+DoofersDad]

The bottom line is that he should not have started. I am going to refer to him as Giraffe from henceforth. His demeanour is lackadaisical, loping and plodding. Like a giraffe he has reached higher heights before and he certainly has the ability to make splendid cross field passes but his head goes down and he looks like a pit pony. I simply do not feel that the hourly burly of the SPL suits his style and I don't think that he has ever been 100% fit and I fear that he never will be.

I think the "burly" is a bit more frequent than "hourly". If it was hourly then that might suit OTJ. Indeed, the burly of the SPL is considered by many to be hurly in it's frequency. This activity seems to have been too whirly for OTJ who lost his composure. I understand he is now feeling somewhart surly and is finding comfort with a curly wurly.

Tomorrow's Sun headline reads "Surly ICT star copes with SPL hurly burly by eating Curly Wurly" . Is he friendly with a girlie called Shirley by any chance?

For launching such an uncalled for challenge against one of our players I award myself my first of the season.

[old caley girl]

The bottom line is that he should not have started. I am going to refer to him as Giraffe from henceforth. His demeanour is lackadaisical, loping and plodding. Like a giraffe he has reached higher heights before and he certainly has the ability to make splendid cross field passes but his head goes down and he looks like a pit pony. I simply do not feel that the hourly burly of the SPL suits his style and I don't think that he has ever been 100% fit and I fear that he never will be.

He surely must have been on the cusp of being hooked anyway - I have been told that he was told this at the break - so perhaps his frustration got the best of him. I was surprised that he got a straight red - it was a bad tackle but without any malice - but again all the feedback suggests that he also mouthed off - and if that was the case he left us all down and should be benched. If however the card was fer the tackle then I would expect an appeal.

This is one that needs to be clarified. Really looking forward to the highlights as I thought that Anderson had got the ball but can also understand why the ref saw it as a straight red from his angle plus he was looking to even thins out - OR WAS HE??

Can't see any evidence on the highlights that he mouthed off! Late challenge tho so can see why the ref showed red tbh.

[ictchris]

Neither of the red cards were for foul and abusive language, that's just what they put on Sky and the BBC.

As for OTJ, he looks like he could be a good player, the way he moves, his body shape all suggest that he's a good player but he never actually does anything. He uses possession neatly but I think he sometimes slows down play, he always seems to try to play little dinks and flicks when playing things simply is the best option. Ross Draper has shown him up in central midfield, the drive and power that Draper brings to the role far outshines OTJ. Foran also looked very good when he dropped back into midfield following his red card.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

The highlights to me show a potentially mistimed leg breaking tackle. Cant see any point in appealing. Anderson played ball and man and got behind Shane so cant see any point in appealing that either. I also thought that Doran lost control and was in two minds but he did get clattered and it looked like a penalty to me.

[Renegade]

Just seen the tackle on the TV there on the TV, horrendous challenge and deserved to go. No complaints from me.

[bauhaus]

just seen it too, was a late tackle, but sending off was likely not for the late bit, his foot was a couple of inches of the grass and his studs were showing, even though it was not his studs or foot which took him down, Fraser contacted OTJs shin. Not worth appealling. Forans tackle was late, but foot was down and not with studs showing, although it was by far the meatier tackle.

Anderson may appeal, as he did touch the ball, but only by a millimeter. Dont think it will be overturned though as in touching the ball he pushed Shane over. Definate penalty.

Doran's non penalty, what a stone waller. Aaron hesitated, and pushed the ball out of his feet, probably further than he wanted too, but as he went to shoot, Aberdeen player just slid into the back of his knees, and the momentum of the tackle meant it looked like he took a shot. Really really bad decision.

If Aberdeen are allowed to appeal, spl should also be allowed to send of a player retrospectively.

Edited September 16, 2012 by bauhaus

[old caley girl]

just seen it too, was a late tackle, but sending off was likely not for the late bit, his foot was a couple of inches of the grass and his studs were showing, even though it was not his studs or foot which took him down, Fraser contacted OTJs shin. Not worth appealling. Forans tackle was late, but foot was down and not with studs showing, although it was by far the meatier tackle.

Anderson may appeal, as he did touch the ball, but only by a millimeter. Dont think it will be overturned though as in touching the ball he pushed Shane over. Definate penalty.

Doran's non penalty, what a stone waller. Aaron hesitated, and pushed the ball out of his feet, probably further than he wanted too, but as he went to shoot, Aberdeen player just slid into the back of his knees, and the momentum of the tackle meant it looked like he took a shot. Really really bad decision.

If Aberdeen are allowed to appeal, spl should also be allowed to send of a player retrospectively.

Dunno if we should go down that road. We appealed for Rossco last year and he got more of the ball than Anderson and we still lost the appeal. Don't think they would win but you never know I suppose!

[TopSix]

Saw it on Sportscene - horrific challenge. Anyone doubting the red card should have a read of the laws of the game.

[CaleyD]

As someone said above, it was one of those tackles which you might not expect to get a red, but aren't altogether surprised when it's shown....and you'd be shouting for a red if it was the other way round. There's certainly nothing in the video evidence to suggest we should waste £1000 trying to appeal it.

You just have to compare it to Forans booking to see how easily a ref can decide that such a challenge only merits a yellow....which probably just serves to throw up the point about the lack of consistency with refereeing.

Looking back through his career stats it would appear that he never had a red card before this season and yellows aren't in abundance either. He's had two reds so far this season (no yellows), one stone waller and this weekends one which might have been no more than a yellow on another day. That's hardly the record of a cart horse, giraffe, donkey or whatever else some might choose to describe him as....and it certainly doesn't merit any calls for him to be benched or shown the door.

Wasn't all that long ago that people on here were singing his praises and commenting just how weak our midfield/team was without him when missing through injury.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Well the animal comparisons would have been regarded as sarcasm by many !! It is more disappointing as his CV would say that he can do a lot better. I do feel that he should be benched as he has not been putting in performances that merit a first X1 start. As I also alluded to I feel that his style of play may not suit the SPL and that there may be lingering injury issues and/or he is'nt 100% fit. And most have agreed with me that his confidence also looks low and it does appear that he gets frustrated and his head goes down. His previous clean disciplinary record, to me, supports the assumption that either his timing has gone or the frustration has had an effect. He has hardly had enough of a run to show his worth and again I think he has been living on his previous reputation. Again I am not suggesting that we ditch him - we rest him - especially as he has either been sent off, suspended or hooked this season.

And if that isnt direct, constructive criticism with a rationale then I dont know what is !! The bottom line is that the truth hurts and/or others may have a different perspective - but that is shurely what fan forums are for.

[+Fraz]

Well the animal comparisons would have been regarded as sarcasm by many !! It is more disappointing as his CV would say that he can do a lot better. I do feel that he should be benched as he has not been putting in performances that merit a first X1 start. As I also alluded to I feel that his style of play may not suit the SPL and that there may be lingering injury issues and/or he is'nt 100% fit. And most have agreed with me that his confidence also looks low and it does appear that he gets frustrated and his head goes down. His previous clean disciplinary record, to me, supports the assumption that either his timing has gone or the frustration has had an effect. He has hardly had enough of a run to show his worth and again I think he has been living on his previous reputation. Again I am not suggesting that we ditch him - we rest him - especially as he has either been sent off, suspended or hooked this season.

And if that isnt direct, constructive criticism with a rationale then I dont know what is !! The bottom line is that the truth hurts and/or others may have a different perspective - but that is shurely what fan forums are for.

Will he no be getting a three game 'rest' anyway!? As I eluded to in the matchday thread OTJ must have the highest £s to minutes on the park ratio of any player in recent memory.

[gordieict]

Definite red in my opinion would be silly to appeal it.

[CaleyD]

Well the animal comparisons would have been regarded as sarcasm by many !! It is more disappointing as his CV would say that he can do a lot better. I do feel that he should be benched as he has not been putting in performances that merit a first X1 start. As I also alluded to I feel that his style of play may not suit the SPL and that there may be lingering injury issues and/or he is'nt 100% fit. And most have agreed with me that his confidence also looks low and it does appear that he gets frustrated and his head goes down. His previous clean disciplinary record, to me, supports the assumption that either his timing has gone or the frustration has had an effect. He has hardly had enough of a run to show his worth and again I think he has been living on his previous reputation. Again I am not suggesting that we ditch him - we rest him - especially as he has either been sent off, suspended or hooked this season.

And if that isnt direct, constructive criticism with a rationale then I dont know what is !! The bottom line is that the truth hurts and/or others may have a different perspective - but that is shurely what fan forums are for.

If people want to make an argument for replacing him on the team sheet with someone they think is a better option, then that is at least rational. The idea, though, that he should be ditched/benched purely because of a couple of cards is not...and that was the mindset I was disagreeing with.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

I suggested that we played Foran and McKay up front and tried Andy Shinnie and Draper in the middle - and I provided rationales for that. And Terry agreed at our therapy session and then renaged. However two red cards, suspensions, poor performances and regular hooking adds up by themselves. And you also have to take in to account that he has not met expectations.

[gordieict]

With everything that's gone on since he came he certainly can't be judged a roaring success...hopefully that will change

[AJS]

According to Sky the club are appealing the red card decision, Aberdeen are also considering appealing Anderson's red card.

[RiG]

According to Sky the club are appealing the red card decision, Aberdeen are also considering appealing Anderson's red card.

Odd. Ian Auld says the club are not appealing.

[AJS]

According to Sky the club are appealing the red card decision, Aberdeen are also considering appealing Anderson's red card.

Odd. Ian Auld says the club are not appealing.

Seems like yet another blooper from Sky. BBC have just reported no appeal as well.

[RiG]

Sky are a bunch of reelers when it comes to Scottish football outside of the Old Firm.

[+Wanderer]

Sky are a bunch of reelers when it comes to Scottish football outside of the Old Firm.

I suppose it could be true but I think they blooped during the text commentary on Saturday:

"Aberdeen just have the edge: key player Shane Sutherland."

I read it and wonder what else they'd got wrong during the 85 minutes I'd been reading....

[bishbashbosh]

according to pat bonner and stephen craigan on sportscence the tackle on fraser " was dangerous to the player" and was a red card. the foran tackle was from the side and mistimed and warranted a yellow.

thought on saturday a definate red, havent changed my mind after seeing it on tv