Should Scotland be an independent country

[Oddquine]

Nope............I did say some and not all.....or are you trying to tell me that all teachers know everything?  Really?

 

Ha! Predictable as ever, Mrs Nope with her favourite tactic (bluster is the best form of defence) 

 

Don't put words in my mouth. Maybe one of those nice teachers could give you a short course in logic, though I doubt you really need it. Any fool knows that there's a world of difference between "knows little about anything" and "knows everything" - i.e. they're not collectively exhaustive, to use a posh phrase I thought I would never need.

 

However, if you persist in your ludicrous assertion that holders of ANY hard-won professional qualification can "know little about anything" (and please spare us any cliches about 'University of Life' etc) then I can only refer you back to post 

 

Just shows how well teachers teach, then......I did logic as one of my subjects in my sixth year in secondary school (rather enjoyed it, too)......why else do you think my mind is so weird?  I thought my teacher was ace, btw...but you may think he was incompetent.

 

You a teacher...or related to one...just out of nosiness?  

 

Tbh, I was thinking more of primary teachers nowadays who have to be all things to all subjects, which appear to be increased in primary school with every new government, rather than secondary teachers who know a lot about their specific subjects.  But then.politicians with political degrees and economists with economy degrees and bankers with banking type degees/qualifications  know a lot about their subject..and what good has that ever done for the punters they consider know nothing?   I'd hazard as much good as having a primary teacher who puts the wrong spelling of a word on the blackboard ten times for the kid to copy down and learn for homework..and get the homework back with the teacher's spelling corrected by the kid's parent..

 

I don't do "University of Lfe" cliches....and I'd advise not asking me why I don't.....because that will engender another  essay!

[PullMyFinger]

Well, this is fun. 
 
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/scotland/article3723157.ece
 

Quote
 
Oil taxes ‘will be swallowed up by deficit’
 
Two weeks after the Scottish government trumpeted a predicted oil boom on independence, a report from a respected academic research body has warned that Scotland will have no spare money from oil taxes to put into an oil fund for future generations.
The report, by the Centre for Public Policy for Regions (CPPR), also gives warning that Scotland’s recent theoretical better balance of tax revenues and public spending than the UK are about to reverse
 

 
Lets' look at this, "no spare money" as "it will be swallowed up by the deficit". So, by staying in the UK our deficit is increasing (borrowing is now and has always been, higher under this ConDem government than under the Labour government), but an Independent Scotland clearing our deficit is a bad thing! Uncertainty, fear, bollox!
 

 

So who are CPPR? Lets look at an extract from this page on BellaCaledonia.

 

http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2012/02/23/the-professor-the-think-tank-the-black-black-oil/
 

TIME FOR SOME ACADEMIC TRANSPARENCY
by Joan McAlpine
The
Centre for Public Policy for the Regions gets a lot of attention in the Scottish media. Its tousle haired economist John McLaren is almost as familiar to viewers of Newsnight Scotland as Gordon Brewer himself. This weekend its report on the Scottish government’s spending priorities in the budget got considerable attention.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/ring-fencing-nhs-will-mean-harsh-cuts-in-other-services-report-warns-1-1493409
The report suggested that the SNP was wrong to ring-fence health spending – just after the party launched its 2011 camapign with this very pledge. It also cast doubt on the SNP government’s ability to fund big infrastructural projects using the non-profit mechanism they have created to replace PFI/PPP. This also echoed the attacks of the Conservatives, Labour and Liberal Democrats.
So is this report a dispassionate piece of analysis by lofty academics who are above the dirty business of politics? Or should we should look again at the CPPR and ask how non-aligned some of its people really are. John McLaren, for example, was once an adviser to the Labour First Minister Donald Dewar – not something that is flagged up on television.
But it is the background of Jo Armstrong, McLaren’s co-author of the weekend paper on Scottish public spending, that concerns me much more. Ms Armstrong was an adviser to another Labour First Minister, Jack McConnell. She is also a controversial figure with what many believe are strong ideological views in favour of liberalising public services. She has advocated the privatisation of Scottish Water. She has associations with those who have most to gain from a return to PFI/PPP – the cost of which has multiplied and delivered huge profits to banks and business consultants. She was involved in the establishment of the Glasgow Housing Association, an organisation backed by the banks, who were given the city’s entire housing stock but had the debt for that stock completely written off.
I am indebted to an online directory called Powerbase which attempts to chart the connections between lobbying/academia/consultancy/think tankery and politics.
Here is part of their fascinating entry on Jo Armstrong http://www.powerbase.info/index.php/Jo_Armstrong
“Jo Armstrong has also involved herself in other areas of concern to the Scottish people. For instance the area of Public Private Partnerships (PPP’S) is one that she has written on. She appears to be a proponent of PPP http://www.powerbase.info/index.php/PPP despite evidence that they are a bad deal for the people of Scotland see refs below

^{data-cke-saved-href="http://www.powerbase.info/index.php/Jo_Armstrong#cite_note-14">[15]
data-cke-saved-href="http://www.powerbase.info/index.php/Jo_Armstrong#cite_note-15">[16]
data-cke-saved-href="http://www.powerbase.info/index.php/Jo_Armstrong#cite_note-16">[17]
data-cke-saved-href="http://www.powerbase.info/index.php/Jo_Armstrong#cite_note-17">[18]
data-cke-saved-href="http://www.powerbase.info/index.php/Jo_Armstrong#cite_note-18">[19]}.
She herself says that she has had,
‘Key roles:

• advising on the development of partnerships and projects
• ensuring financial viability & acceptability to the private sector
• assuring value for money & public sector affordability’.

This advice has been given to both the Scottish Executive http://www.powerbase.info/index.php/Scottish_Executive and the Royal Bank of Scotland http://www.powerbase.info/index.php/Royal_Bank_of_Scotland; one of the main beneficiaries of PPP’s. Her relationship with the Royal Bank of Scotland encompassed,


‘The provision of analysis and advice in support of the Royal Bank of Scotland’s Structured
Finance deals covering

• PFI/PPPs for UK hospitals, roads, prisons and housing
• gas and coal-fired power projects worldwide
• oil, mineral and petrochemical installations world-wide
• leisure and hotel projects in the US and the UK’

^{data-cke-saved-href="http://www.powerbase.info/index.php/Jo_Armstrong#cite_note-19">[20]}.

 

Despite this business relationship with the Royal Bank she also took on an, ‘an initial review of the Scottish Executive’s experience of, and role in Public Private Partnerships (PPPs) in Scotland reporting to the Scottish Cabinet through the Minister for Finance’ ^{data-cke-saved-href="http://www.powerbase.info/index.php/Jo_Armstrong#cite_note-20">[21]}.
“
Jo Armstrong, has also worked for the Fraser of Allander Institute ,http://www.powerbase.info/index.php/Fraser_of_Allander_Institute another academic organisation that appears to employ a disproportionate number of folk of a Scottish Labour persuasion…Now I am not saying that Ms Armstrong has done anything wrong. But I do believe that anyone presented with her work has a right to view it in the wider context of her career.

There is considerable personnel cross over between the Fraser of Allander, the CPPR, and the Calman Commission on Scottish Devolution which was set up by the unionist parties to block moves to give Scotland more control of her own resources and economic decision making. The Calman Commission report forms the basis of the Scotland Bill, currently going through Westminster which the Scottish Government says would have resulted in Scotland losing £8bn in the first ten years of devolution.
For Example:
Jim Gallagher, the former civil servant who is believed to have written the Calman report and who has been appointed as expert adviser to the Holyrood Scotland Bill Committe is listed as an associate with the CPPR.
Wendy Alexander, who had the idea for the Calman Commission while Labour’s leader in Holyrood and who now chairs The Scotland Bill committee has worked for the Fraser of Allander. As a minister in a previous Labour administration she pushed through the establishment Glasgow Housing Association that Jo Armstrong worked on too Brian Ashcroft, Wendy Alexander’s husband, is a member of the CPPR and Fraser of Allander.
Julia Darby and Peter McGregor of the CPPR were two of six economists who signed a letter in The Scotsman yesterday claiming fiscal autonomy would not help the Scottish economy.
Julia Darby was also on the Calman expert group.
Of other letter signers Anton Muscatelli, Clemens Fuest and David Ulph were also members of the hand-picked expert group.
David Ulph is also an expert adviser to the Scotland Bill committee at Holyrood. Does he not believe that a conflict of interest might arise? How can he offer supposedly impartial advice on Scotland’s fiscal future when his colours are nailed so firmly to the mast? A look at Ulph’s CV also reveals that he was employed by HMRC until 2006. The Treasury and HMRC are among the strongest opponents of any move that decentralises power away from them.
I am sure there are many other academics whose impartiality is not perhaps as straightforward as is presented
to the wider public. I am not saying that academics should not have political views – that would clearly be absurd. But we should at least know their background and their associates when listening to their contributions. (Just as we should know the backgrounds of journalists – I recently became an SNP candidate). So Professors Andrew Hughes Hallett and Drew Scott were recently attacked by Wendy Alexander’s committee because their research had been used by the SNP government to support the case for fiscal power. Contrast the way they
were treated with this report in The Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/8254761/Back-Calman-powers-or-Scotland-loses-out-warns-expert.html on evidence given at the same time by Iain McLean, of Oxford University, to the same committee. Professor McLean, another member of the Calman expert group, is not an economist but was allowed to talk at length on how the SNP’s plans (not part of the committee’s remit)
would “substantially increase the risk of a financial black hole appearing”. For good measure he defended the Scotland Bill plans not to include corporation tax and national insurance and dismissed oil revenues as “too volatile.”
Nowhere in the report does it explain that Professor McLean is a very good friend to Labour and was a councillor in Oxford and Tyneside. (Though Professor McLean is himself open about this on his CV) Nor does any report on Prof McLean’s evidence to the committee explain that Jim Gallagher (its expert adviser remember) has recently joined Prof McLean at Nuffield College. I’m a told Gallagher found a welcome there after leaving the civil service shortly after the change of government last May.
Lastly, looking at the CVs of the economists on the CPPR, it is clear that “regional economics” is a bulging
academic area. Many have moved from the regions of England, where they have developed their expertise. I don’t think of Scotland as a region…but perhaps it suits others very well for it to be treated as such.
(First published on 1st Feb 2011)

 

Edit as spoiler didn't work. And reformatting as cut and paste was awkward.

Edited March 26, 2013 by PullMyFinger

[PullMyFinger]

I don't do "University of Lfe" cliches....and I'd advise not asking me why I don't.....because that will engender another  essay!

 

Why don't you do "University of Lfe" cliches?

 

[Oddquine]

I don't do "University of Lfe" cliches....and I'd advise not asking me why I don't.....because that will engender another  essay!

 

Why don't you do "University of Lfe" cliches?

 

 

I know I shouldn't do troll feeding ......but, imo, the University of Life is not a University which gives everyone the same options or outcomes as a degree does (or did, once upon a time)..so it does not negate the necessity of empathy and the ability to walk a mile in another person's shoes....something sadly lacking in our politicians nowadays.  The University of Life is the real world...too many of our politicians have never lived in it.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Oddquine

[starchief]

Professional politicians will be the death of this country - whether thats the UK or Scotland.  They have no concept of the difference between company and community, so steeped they are in PR and the minutiae of law. The old phrase of wood and trees comes to mind.  As for independence...still undecided. 

[PullMyFinger]

I think you're confusing politician with policy maker, but that's another debate. I have come into contact with a few SNP politicians at local, regional and national level and as with anyone else each has their own personality which is definitely a good thing. Debate amongst large groups and disagreement about policy produces many ideas and the best ideas generally float to the top.

 

Looking at the political parties in this country now, how many would make a choice regards a major policy live on national television at their conference? SNP did this regards NATO membership, democracy in action. Greens do this but not in the public eye. LibDems do this then renege on each policy as it suits them, Labour used to but don't even bother now and the Tories used to many years ago.

[PullMyFinger]

I know I shouldn't do troll feeding ......but, imo, the University of Life is not a University which gives everyone the same options or outcomes as a degree does (or did, once upon a time)..so it does not negate the necessity of empathy and the ability to walk a mile in another person's shoes....something sadly lacking in our politicians nowadays.  The University of Life is the real world...too many of our politicians have never lived in it.

 

Did you go to the School of Hard Knocks before you went to the University of Life?

 

[CorrieHarrier]

Cretinous hypocrisy from Westminster and the other unionists today. On the one hand, in UK contexts, they're describing an oil boom, reserves of £1.5 trillion. Record investment. Record jobs. 2 million barrels a day by 2017. On the other hand, if Scotland were independant, this pesky oil is bad for Scotland, how could we cope, uncertainty, too wee, poor etc.

Oil and gas provides one 5th of all of the exchequers income, yet it's somehow a disaster for us! You couldn't make it up.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/oil-and-gas-strategy-will-promote-billions-worth-of-new-investment

The BBC are reporting new oil boom in North Sea. Funny ... could have sworn they were reporting accusations John Swinney made that up a few days ago.

Yes it's 1979 again, lots of jam tomorrow will be promised by unionist parties in the form of promises of further powers. Except, we're not allowed to know when, what flavour and how much, and they won't discuss it until after we vote no and let them carry on shafting us.

When people decide what to vote, I hope they make an informed choice rather than one the media and Westminster tells them is right. We're being lied to on a daily basis by pretty much the whole of main stream media. I hope people can research the facts and make a decision on them, rather than fear stories.

It shouldn't be about party politics or personalities either. Those are for general elections and there will be new options on who we elect in an independant Scotland. Its about choosing what sort of country we want to live in. The main thing for me is we'll be electing a democratic government that Scotland chooses, not England, Wales and N Ireland and it will have the powers and resources to act in our best interest, not impose the austerity cuts, bedroom tax, poll tax, relocation and savage cuts to our defence force, waste billions on Trident, kill our shipyards and industry... It's a long long line of betrayal and failure. Scottish MPs voted against the illegal Iraq war, against benefit cuts, against the bedroom tax- Westminster imposed them.

There's been 34 or more countries become independant since 1990, many smaller than Scotland and with less resources. None looking back and many of them thriving.

I've grown up with this Independance issue dominating politics and i find it pretty tedious actually. We should have been independant in 79 but for a rigged referendum and the burying of the Mccrone report. Lets just get on with it FFS! This country has all it takes to be better.

[IBM]

Cretinous hypocrisy from Westminster and the other unionists today. On the one hand, in UK contexts, they're describing an oil boom, reserves of £1.5 trillion. Record investment. Record jobs. 2 million barrels a day by 2017. On the other hand, if Scotland were independant, this pesky oil is bad for Scotland, how could we cope, uncertainty, too wee, poor etc.

Oil and gas provides one 5th of all of the exchequers income, yet it's somehow a disaster for us! You couldn't make it up.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/oil-and-gas-strategy-will-promote-billions-worth-of-new-investment

The BBC are reporting new oil boom in North Sea. Funny ... could have sworn they were reporting accusations John Swinney made that up a few days ago.

Yes it's 1979 again, lots of jam tomorrow will be promised by unionist parties in the form of promises of further powers. Except, we're not allowed to know when, what flavour and how much, and they won't discuss it until after we vote no and let them carry on shafting us.

When people decide what to vote, I hope they make an informed choice rather than one the media and Westminster tells them is right. We're being lied to on a daily basis by pretty much the whole of main stream media. I hope people can research the facts and make a decision on them, rather than fear stories.

It shouldn't be about party politics or personalities either. Those are for general elections and there will be new options on who we elect in an independant Scotland. Its about choosing what sort of country we want to live in. The main thing for me is we'll be electing a democratic government that Scotland chooses, not England, Wales and N Ireland and it will have the powers and resources to act in our best interest, not impose the austerity cuts, bedroom tax, poll tax, relocation and savage cuts to our defence force, waste billions on Trident, kill our shipyards and industry... It's a long long line of betrayal and failure. Scottish MPs voted against the illegal Iraq war, against benefit cuts, against the bedroom tax- Westminster imposed them.

There's been 34 or more countries become independant since 1990, many smaller than Scotland and with less resources. None looking back and many of them thriving.

I've grown up with this Independance issue dominating politics and i find it pretty tedious actually. We should have been independant in 79 but for a rigged referendum and the burying of the Mccrone report. Lets just get on with it FFS! This country has all it takes to be better.

Welcome CH I like your first post!

[Sneckboy]

Peculiar rant for a first post! Would be able to take it more seriously if you could actually spell the one word pertinent to your thread. IndependEnt, IndependEnce! Don't mean to be picky but it totally detracts from the content of your post, especially as a first poster - it's like you don't know what you're talking about- A troll, no doubt! "You had one job..."!!

[Kingsmills]

A very minor spelling lapse does not detract from the validity of the points made by the poster athlough I would be interested to know his or her views on the under utilisation of Connor Pepper 

[CorrieHarrier]

Peculiar rant for a first post! Would be able to take it more seriously if you could actually spell the one word pertinent to your thread. IndependEnt, IndependEnce! Don't mean to be picky but it totally detracts from the content of your post, especially as a first poster - it's like you don't know what you're talking about- A troll, no doubt! "You had one job..."!!

Apologies if the spelling irritated you, my dyslexia can get the better of me at times and my screen can resemble a fruit machine with spell check, but it doesn't mean I'm daft or understand what I talking about.oh and not trolling either, I don't see how that's possible from that argument really.

A very minor spelling lapse does not detract from the validity of the points made by the poster athlough I would be interested to know his or her views on the under utilisation of Connor Pepper

Thanks, I think pepper has done well enough with the little time he's had to merit being used more often as a sub at least but I wouldn't start him ahead of Mackay or Doran as I think the team almost picks itself. Edited March 29, 2013 by CorrieHarrier

[PullMyFinger]

First off, thanks for your excellent post CorrieHarrier and welcome to CaleyThistleOnline.

 

 

Peculiar rant for a first post! Would be able to take it more seriously if you could actually spell the one word pertinent to your thread. IndependEnt, IndependEnce! Don't mean to be picky but it totally detracts from the content of your post, especially as a first poster - it's like you don't know what you're talking about- A troll, no doubt! "You had one job..."!!

 

Sit down sonny, grown ups are talking.

[Oddquine]

I know I shouldn't do troll feeding ......but, imo, the University of Life is not a University which gives everyone the same options or outcomes as a degree does (or did, once upon a time)..so it does not negate the necessity of empathy and the ability to walk a mile in another person's shoes....something sadly lacking in our politicians nowadays.  The University of Life is the real world...too many of our politicians have never lived in it.

 

Did you go to the School of Hard Knocks before you went to the University of Life?

 

Can't say I've noticed a lot of difference between the two.unfortunately! 

[PullMyFinger]

Instead of treating, we get tricked,

Instead of kisses, we get kicked!

 

This is a must see, Jackie Bailey calls for emergency legislation because Labour councils won't tow the Scottish party line.

 

The video won't be available for long though.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/scotland-21956343

[PaderbornCaley]

It's always going to be an uphill struggle against the bias of the BBC and other news sources.  The stories in the press recently however surely proves the Yes campaign right.

 

 

This picture sums up perfectly why I will be voting YES to an independent Scotland on 18th September 2014. It's not about anything that has happened in the past, or anti - English / Welsh / N. Irish sentiment. It's about the potential of Scotland. If the people of Scotland vote YES, I am certain they will not regret it.

 

[PaderbornCaley]

For anyone wanting to contribute to the effort, have a look at the Yes shop website. 

 

http://shop.yesscotland.net/

 

 

Or if you're ever in Glasgow, visit the offices / shop in Hope Street. 

 

Here's my favourite Yes Scotland merchandise and it's only a tenner.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[PullMyFinger]

It's always going to be an uphill struggle against the bias of the BBC and other news sources. The stories in the press recently however surely proves the Yes campaign right.

 

Is there the tiniest hint of irony there?

 

This picture sums up perfectly why I will be voting YES to an independent Scotland on 18th September 2014. It's not about anything that has happened in the past, or anti - English / Welsh / N. Irish sentiment. It's about the potential of Scotland. If the people of Scotland vote YES, I am certain they will not regret it.

 

575834_4716837723121_2064753714_n.jpg

 

I would argue with those figures but yes, we could do more good with £2 billion than spend it on ICBMs (how old does that make me?). Public spending tends to spiral out of control so maybe a couple or three of your list but certainly not "all of the above" as the poster claims. Consider that the last Labour/Liberal coalition at Westminster supported a scheme to build a simple tramline in Edinburgh. This white elephant project will have cost about the same per mile as the Channel Tunnel did(3 tunnels were made).

[PullMyFinger]

Another fine piece from Rev. Stu. Campbell aka WingsOverScotland.

 

http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-oil-debate-for-busy-people/

 

 

[PaderbornCaley]

It's always going to be an uphill struggle against the bias of the BBC and other news sources. The stories in the press recently however surely proves the Yes campaign right.

 

Is there the tiniest hint of irony there?

 

Should have worded that one better! The stories in the press about the oil boom that will help the British economy surely strengthens the case for the use of oil in an independent Scotland.  They have been saying that there is not enough oil for an independent Scotland.  Now, all of a sudden there is enough for the United Kingdom.

[PullMyFinger]

 

It's always going to be an uphill struggle against the bias of the BBC and other news sources. The stories in the press recently however surely proves the Yes campaign right.

 

Is there the tiniest hint of irony there?

 

Should have worded that one better! The stories in the press about the oil boom that will help the British economy surely strengthens the case for the use of oil in an independent Scotland.  They have been saying that there is not enough oil for an independent Scotland.  Now, all of a sudden there is enough for the United Kingdom.

 

That the story in the Telegraph about Vince Cable was omitted from the Scottish section is quite telling, however there is some positive news coming through the media. I'll see how it goes but if we get honest impartial reporting and the Yes campaign get a fair hearing on the telly, I can't see past a majority vote for independence.

 

For anyone wanting to contribute to the effort, have a look at the Yes shop website.

 

http://shop.yesscotland.net/

 

Better still, sign up as a volunteer. Even if you just deliver a few leaflets, your help will make the job easier for the more established volunteers.

 

http://www.yesscotland.net/volunteer

 

You can even become an ambassador for the Yes campaign.

 

http://www.yesscotland.net/ambassadors

 

Anyone in the Moray constituency who may be interested can PM me and I'll put them in contact with the relevant people.

[PullMyFinger]

Of course if you are more passive you can simply sign the declaration here;

 

http://www.yesscotland.net/declaration

[Yngwie]

Just out of interest, how many people have signed the "Declaration of Cineworld" so far?

[PullMyFinger]

What's that? I've never heard of it.

 

Never mind, I googled it.

 

http://planetivy.com/news/1596/scotland-moves-ever-closer-to-independence-from-britain-with-a-meeting-held-in-a-cineworld/

Edited March 29, 2013 by PullMyFinger

[Sneckboy]

I think at the turn of the year it had around 150,000 'signatures' so it will be well in excess of that 170k maybe?