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The Late Margaret Thatcher


Kingsmills

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I suspect those lining up to laud her did not live or were quite young during her rule. It was a truly grim time in every way. Anyway, here is a piece by Ian Bell from The Herald.

 

 

100% wrong.  Some of us remember what went before as our postings make clear, and don't feel the need to cut and paste the usual simplistic anti-Maggie leftie bullsh*t bingo from 'useful_idiots.com' or whatever. 

 

 

Who knew there were so many Tories on this site?

 

Knock yourself out, but out of curiosity, which parts of the Bell article would you class as "anti-Maggie leftie bullsh*t bingo from 'useful_idiots.com' or whatever"?

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Who knew there were so many Tories on this site?

 

I am not a Tory. But then again I don't consider the term to be a term of abuse just because someone has a political viewpoint that doesn't share the same views as me. That is the same as the Septics Republican Right using the term 'liberal' to mean 'wrong'.

Alex Salmond said it best - you can vehemently oppose what someone else stands for but that should not affect your respect for them to hold that view. Laudable.

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I suspect those lining up to laud her did not live or were quite young during her rule. It was a truly grim time in every way. Anyway, here is a piece by Ian Bell from The Herald.

 

 

100% wrong.  Some of us remember what went before as our postings make clear, and don't feel the need to cut and paste the usual simplistic anti-Maggie leftie bullsh*t bingo from 'useful_idiots.com' or whatever. 

 

 

Who knew there were so many Tories on this site?

 

Knock yourself out, but out of curiosity, which parts of the Bell article would you class as "anti-Maggie leftie bullsh*t bingo from 'useful_idiots.com' or whatever"?

 

 

Substantially all of it.

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But why it is being suggested to happen in Scotland, when clearly, respect her or not, she had such a negative effect on the country? Madejski can also shut up as he probably made money out of her 'rich only' policy. Tories were left unelectable but I worry there is many to come until Labour get rid of that **** they have in charge, he is unelectable. Remember the Maggie Out cards..? Why should we boo her, slate her, but once she's dead she can't be slagged off. She was a disgrace, did people mourn over Hitlers death? NO.

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I wouldn't want a minutes silence for her but I wouldn't disrupt it if there was one, prob just go onto Facebook on my phone to post something profound.

 

Whatever my views of her premiership and legacy (which I can't be bothered going into) I am mighty seething at this funeral malarky. £8-10 million! MPs getting thousands in expenses to attend? I find it unbelieveable that in a time where we keep getting told that there is no more money, we need to tighten out belts, we're all in this together, you can live on £53 a week and so on we can whip out the millions no bother when it suits. (see also Olympic ceremony / Queen's payrise / Royal wedding etc). We have millionairres using public money to pay for another millionairre's funeral! Outragous.

 

If the family want something more lavish fair enough, but they pay for it, they can well afford it. I know a few people who have passed away in the past couple of years and in a couple of cases the widow and/or kids had to scrape together to find the money for a half decent service and cremation followed by a wee buffet with tea and coffee. Don't recall hearing about anyone else in government offering to help out. However it always seem that the more money you have the less you have to pay for (inc taxes).

 

Surely Maggie will be spinning in her grave hearing that the 'society' that she didn't believe in is paying for her funeral. If she is to be honoured correctly surely the funeral should be tendered out to the lowest bidder in the private sector and tickets sold off for people to attend, that to my mind sounds like something she would agree with. Seething.

 

Edit - spelling

Edited by fraz
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The cost is a joke. Ridiculous. Thatcher, Cameron and Madejski can bugger off to hell. I amnt anti-Tory in any way. Infact you could say I'm anti-MP. Any of the Party leaders now are jokes. Ed MiliTWAT should have something to say about Cameron and Salmond admiring Maggie. I feel Thatcherism is going to kick in for another while. And neither Labour or Liberal Democrats are electable with the twits at the head of the ******* useless parties. I fear for the next term of UK government greatly. But back on subject, it is utterly ridiculous that we are paying for a Hitler-esque beings funeral. I suppose you could also say it is ridiculously obvious, rather than ridiculous.

EDIT : sorry for my strong words but the MPs who run this country are disgraceful, ******* fng bloody **** ******* anti-public twats, yet they look to the public for ******* everything and do **** **** all themselves

Edited by Rival
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 it is utterly ridiculous that we are paying for a Hitler-esque beings funeral.

 

Reductio ad Hilterum.

 

Regarding the cost of the funeral, I believe that Mrs Thatcher had said she didn't want a state funeral.

 

I think David Cameron has a point when he says "I think people would find us a pretty extraordinary country if we didn't properly commemorate with dignity, with seriousness, but with also some fanfare ... the passing of this extraordinary woman.  I think not only in Britain would people say, 'You are not doing this properly', but I think the rest of the world would think we were completely wrong."

 

It's worth commemorating someone who had such an impact on the country.  All other former Prime Ministers who have died recently have had memorial services.

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Ah, but I bet no other PM had Jeremy Clarkson driving the hearse. Or maybe he's there to do a Top Gear thing where they race against the carriage in a vehicle made from a washing machine or such like.

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 it is utterly ridiculous that we are paying for a Hitler-esque beings funeral.

 

Reductio ad Hilterum.

 

Regarding the cost of the funeral, I believe that Mrs Thatcher had said she didn't want a state funeral.

 

I think David Cameron has a point when he says "I think people would find us a pretty extraordinary country if we didn't properly commemorate with dignity, with seriousness, but with also some fanfare ... the passing of this extraordinary woman.  I think not only in Britain would people say, 'You are not doing this properly', but I think the rest of the world would think we were completely wrong."

 

It's worth commemorating someone who had such an impact on the country.  All other former Prime Ministers who have died recently have had memorial services.

Did you enjoy or perhaps agree with the impact she had on the country?

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it is utterly ridiculous that we are paying for a Hitler-esque beings funeral.

 

Reductio ad Hilterum.

 

Regarding the cost of the funeral, I believe that Mrs Thatcher had said she didn't want a state funeral.

 

I think David Cameron has a point when he says "I think people would find us a pretty extraordinary country if we didn't properly commemorate with dignity, with seriousness, but with also some fanfare ... the passing of this extraordinary woman.  I think not only in Britain would people say, 'You are not doing this properly', but I think the rest of the world would think we were completely wrong."

 

It's worth commemorating someone who had such an impact on the country.  All other former Prime Ministers who have died recently have had memorial services.

Harry-Enfield-as-Tim-Nice-012.jpg
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ok, after reading through this entire topic again, I am just going to fire a quick shot across the bows. This is not aimed at anyone in particular, nor at any comment in particular, just the thread in general to avoid what may be the inevitable closure of it. At this point, nothing has been moved/edited/deleted and no-one has been excluded from the thread.

 

MT polarised people in both life and death ... but as per our site rules, please stick to debating the topic as opposed to getting overly personal with individual posters. You may or may not like their opinion, but it belongs to them and they are free to express it, just as you are free to express yours .... but it steps over the line when you get personal or abusive ......

 

Topic is now on a :yellowcard:  

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 it is utterly ridiculous that we are paying for a Hitler-esque beings funeral.

 

 

Reductio ad Hilterum.

 

Regarding the cost of the funeral, I believe that Mrs Thatcher had said she didn't want a state funeral.

 

I think David Cameron has a point when he says "I think people would find us a pretty extraordinary country if we didn't properly commemorate with dignity, with seriousness, but with also some fanfare ... the passing of this extraordinary woman.  I think not only in Britain would people say, 'You are not doing this properly', but I think the rest of the world would think we were completely wrong."

 

It's worth commemorating someone who had such an impact on the country.  All other former Prime Ministers who have died recently have had memorial services.

Did you enjoy or perhaps agree with the impact she had on the country?

 

 

She did some good things, some bad things.  The point about the funeral is that it's worth providing a state occasion for someone who was political leader of this country for over a decade, whether you agree with them or not.

 

 

 

Incidentally, I never used to like Jeremy Clarkson.  Then I found out he once punched Piers Morgan.  For this, he should get a state funeral.

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Incidentally, I never used to like Jeremy Clarkson.  Then I found out he once punched Piers Morgan.  For this, he should get a state funeral.
 
This post I think we could ALL agree on :lol:
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Nowaday's, i'm pretty much what Scotty refers to as apolitical,having total disdain and little trust for politicians of all hue's. Back in the day,I admired Margret Thatcher ( you don't hear that from many Dundonians!)  for having the ball's to confront problems that seemed insurmountable and taking a hard line when required.She solved many of the ills of the time but slowly began to believe in her own infallibility and the third term was probably one too far. 

My own experience of the intransigence of the unions of the time was the de-markation employed in the ship yards to walk out at the drop of a hat due to some perceived indiscretion against one trade or another. Our wee RAF S&R launch was in Rosyth for re-fit and was "blacked" for 6 weeks after someone observed a serviceman painting decking boards as he was bored and passing the time. I also spent too many boring nights in my early teens playing monopoly and Cluedo by candlelight, although lights suddenly going out without warning had it's merits in certain situations!!. Over the piece, i believe this country is in a better place because of her than had she not governed, but there was certainly much to kick against for many,although a lot of history has been re-written both Pro and Anti. 

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People that say George Galloway is a great orator or writer should read that horribly written statement, and watch him bully Arabs fighting dictatorship on his bizarre 'Lebanese' chat-shows.  He's an absolute roaster of a man, all the 'memorable' turns of phrase he comes out with are chivvied from Labour politicians from the 1950s.  To paraphrase what was once said about Stephen Fry, he is a stupid person's idea of a serious politician.  You could probably go through that statement line-by-line and pick out inaccuracies in every sentence.

 

I could easily say the same about your post but that doesn't make me right, does it?

 

Why not go through the article and highlight the inaccuracies with linked evidence to back yourself up or are you just a troll?

 

It doesn't make you right because you can't do it.

 

Thank you for agreeing. Why can't you do it though?

 

 

I don't have the time or inclination to argue with George Galloway by proxy on the internet.

 

Seeing as you are on the verge of tears about it though, here are a few highlights of inaccuracies in the post:

 

- Thatcher said "there is no such thing as society" in an interview with Women's Own, not in her speech to the Church of Scotland.

- It's a pretty loose definition of 'blasphemy' to talk about her intrepretation of the Good Samaritan tale, although no galloway rant is complete these days without some bizarre religious dog-whistling.

- His talk of her "destroying" industry is a willfull distortion - the industries that Galloway is wistfully talking about were hugely subsidised by the state, a situation where productive industries were drained of theri profits (98% taxation on investment income, 83% on salary income for top earners) to pour into money pits.  If these industries had been able to compete they'd have survived - they could not.

- His glossing over of union power is ridiculous.  Speak to anyone involved in the press during the 1970s and 80s and you'll find out what the truth was about the print unions - they held the entire industry to ransom and what happened at Wapping was due to technology, thankfully, making them obselete.

- Regarding Northern Ireland, political/special category status was withdrawn before Thatcher came to power (by Roy Mason, IIRC).  In the event, what did Galloway expect her to do?  Give in?  TheIRA at that time were dedicated to murdering their way to power in Ireland. 

- State collusion between Loyalist terrorists and the security forces happened throughout the conflict, a cursory reading of history tells you that.  The UVF in Mid-Ulster operated hand in glove with British intelligence throughout the 1970s, the UDR and B Specials had a consistent core of Loyalist sympathisers in it's ranks, in the 70s some estimates put it at 15-20% of total manpower had contact with loyalist paramilitaries.  Also, recent court cases have shown that several atrocities in the early 90s, after Thatcher left power, occurred either with the involvement or knowledge of British intelligence (Loughinisland). it's a fallacy to say that it became endemic during Thatchers rule and it's also a mistake to attribute it to her. If GG actually thinks that these things were signed off around the Cabinet table then he's delusional.

- The "Cold War fanaticism" that GG talks about is hilarious - Thatcher helped bring about the end of the Cold War and the collapse of Soviet domination of Eastern and Central Europe.  Have a read of the obituries and tributes to her from Europe to see what people think of her there.

- Again, a hilarious misreading of history to say that "she pushed... George Bush Sen into the first Iraq War".  Saddam was removed from Kuwait by the largest military coalition in history, comprising Arab states, Europe, the Americas.  The idea that she somehow forced Bush to act against his will is a fantasy from Galloway.

- GG repeats a lie about the Afghan mujahadeen - there isn't a simple continum between the people who the West aided (a process started by Jimmy Carter) and those who became the Taliban.  There is zero evidence that any WEstern aid ever reached Al Queda.  In fact, the evidence is the opposite, Bin Laden didn't want their aid.  It's interesting to note that GG supported the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan by the Soviet Union.

- It's interesting that GG says "I was one of the last men standing in parliament opposing this immoral policy of “my enemy’s enemy is my friend” when he is the single biggest example of this policy in British politics.  He says he opposed Saddam and may well have done (although the evidence of his involvement in any opposition to him is pretty scant).  However, as soon as Saddam became an enemy of the WEst GG prostrated himself in from of Saddam, acting a propaganda agent for the Ba'athists, eulogising Saddam.  He is doing the same thing now with Assad in Syria.

 

The Belgrano and Mandela questions are covered above.

 

 

That wasn't so difficult, was it?

 

Here's a couple of links to support you (I didn't actually disagree with you, did I?)

 

http://www.margaretthatcher.org/document/107246  Transcript of speach to General Assembly of C of S http://www.margaretthatcher.org/speeches/displaydocument.asp?docid=104210 Transcript of interview for LWT

 

One thing though, he may not have condemned Saddam publicly to the extent that many others in the West did but let's get some contect on Saddam. When he was invading Iran and gassing his own countrymen in the North, it was the Western leaders who supported him, armed him, financed him and trained him. Foreign policy has a habit of haunting habitual offenders. 

 

 

 

 

I watched this on youtube at the weekend and found it very interesting. Did you know that one bombing run using a cold war nuclear bomber which was destined for the scrap heap and that it had to be refuelled several times on it's way, paved the way for the task force to expel the Argentinians?

 

 

I'm afraid you have been taken in by some crab propaganda. The Vulcan assault was a minor irritation to the Argentinians and was quickly dealt with. It had little actual bearing on the conduct or outcome of the war.

The RAF is well aware that this conflict was won by the combined efforts of the Navy and Army and now that 25 years have passed they are using this one very expensive and ultimately inconsequential action as a sad attempt to make themselves look relevant. They were (and should remain) embarrassed that the most memorable conflict since WWII involving ONLY UK forces against a belligerent enemy attacking British soil was beyond their effective capability.

 

 

Silly me, I though the fact that the Argie's Mirage fighters couldn't use the runway to land saved a lot of British service personnel's lives (Naval and Marines). The Mirage squadrans were withdrawn following the bombing of the runway, short runways are okay for take off but not for landing. This is why I said "paved the way", the Argentines were shocked that the Air Force could reach them from the UK.

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 it is utterly ridiculous that we are paying for a Hitler-esque beings funeral.

 

 

Reductio ad Hilterum.

Regarding the cost of the funeral, I believe that Mrs Thatcher had said she didn't want a state funeral.

 

I think David Cameron has a point when he says "I think people would find us a pretty extraordinary country if we didn't properly commemorate with dignity, with seriousness, but with also some fanfare ... the passing of this extraordinary woman.  I think not only in Britain would people say, 'You are not doing this properly', but I think the rest of the world would think we were completely wrong."

 

It's worth commemorating someone who had such an impact on the country.  All other former Prime Ministers who have died recently have had memorial services.

Did you enjoy or perhaps agree with the impact she had on the country?

 

 

She did some good things, some bad things.  The point about the funeral is that it's worth providing a state occasion for someone who was political leader of this country for over a decade, whether you agree with them or not.

 

 

 

Incidentally, I never used to like Jeremy Clarkson.  Then I found out he once punched Piers Morgan.  For this, he should get a state funeral.

He punched Piers Morgan ?:))

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