Should Hughes be SACKED?

[KingBeastie]

I was willing to give Hughes time but ever since the 0-5 at Parkhead, that has changed!!

Yes, we reached Cup Final and top 6 again but that was guaranteed before Butcher left.

His record here is ridiculous, he was a defender and yet our defence is poor just now.

Hughes MUST GO imo!!

 

[Jeepsaw]

Exactly, we're no bigger than the clubs below us and a good bit smaller than a lot of them. We're not a team that can afford to hire and fire whenever things aren't working.

Look what happened after sticking with butcher after a couple of dodgy seasons, flirting with relegation.

We're on a bad run and considering the season we had been having, nobody was going to find it easy taking over the team.

If we're down in the bottom two places 2a quarter of the way into next season then this question should be asked.

[KingBeastie]

Our 4-2-3-1 system is not working as while Billy is doing a great job holding the ball up, the opposition is wise to this tactic and mark Billy out of the game and also stop others getting forward well.

This is why Hughes tried the 4-4-2, to help Billy up front.  He said so himself.  I'm not so sure that he picked the correct games to do this in however.  This tactic did not work so he's gone back to 4-2-3-1.  This still hasn't sorted out lack of goal threat though.

I like the fact Hughes is trying to remedy this situation.  My main concern is he is not using the full squad well enough IMO.  Some players looked tired last night at m'well and players like Nick Ross and Ryan Christie should be given a chance during this busy time.

 

Should he be sacked now.  No.  Not now.

[clacher_holiday2]

Look what happened after sticking with butcher after a couple of dodgy seasons, flirting with relegation.

 

What seasons were these?

 

As for those saying the expectation this year was avoiding relegation, I'll repeat myself and point out how close we were to the UEFA Cup last time out, our expectations were much higher this year as they should've been.

Edited March 20, 2014 by clacher_holiday2

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Mahonio has a Red Nose - as did Charlie Caroli but he was funny.

[Guest Mahonio]

Gtf IHE!!

Now, I am staying off this forum for a while before I say something that I regret.

[starchief]

Exactly, we're no bigger than the clubs below us and a good bit smaller than a lot of them.

And yet, we were in second place and going strong.

We're on a bad run and considering the season we had been having, nobody was going to find it easy taking over the team.

Why bother hiring a manager if he has no influence on the team?  His job is to stop a bad run!

If we're down in the bottom two places 2a quarter of the way into next season then this question should be asked.

So, basically, we have a team that has successive years of getting promoted, stabilising itself, becoming top of its economic rivals and now an established top 6 team with a cup final behind it, now dropping down to being a relegation threatened team, even though the playing staff has remained the same?  That would mean sacking in any other sphere of business.

[absent friend]

Well I suppose the neggie folk on here have handed the BBC, on Saturday afternoon, the opinion that Mr Hughes is now under pressure re his position at ICT.

How on earth do so called 'fans' allow other team supporters such ammunition as this will manifest itself as " sacked in the morning" chants each time we come under pressure in a game.

I'm sure this will instill lots of confidence in the players with this chant ringing in their ears.

Sad indeed!

[starchief]

Probably because we wouldn't have got relegated if Brew had been sacked earlier.  The fans shouted for it.  I presume you were backing the manager and felt Brewster should have stayed as managerial ability somehow doesn't seem to matter?  Somehow, we go on bad runs and good runs but nothing to do with tactics, coaching and team selection?

 

Confidence will only take you so far.  Managerial ability a lot further - in either direction!

[clacher_holiday2]

Well I suppose the neggie folk on here have handed the BBC, on Saturday afternoon, the opinion that Mr Hughes is now under pressure re his position at ICT.

How on earth do so called 'fans' allow other team supporters such ammunition as this will manifest itself as " sacked in the morning" chants each time we come under pressure in a game.

I'm sure this will instill lots of confidence in the players with this chant ringing in their ears.

Sad indeed!

 

Under what circumstances would you call Hughes position to be questioned?

[Caley Mad In Berks]

I'm not the greatest fan of Hughes.  Nor was I of Butcher at the start of his time with us.  But I grew to tolerate him and appreciate that he and his team did some good things for ICT.  So I'm prepared to give Hughes time to see if he can improve things after a poor start.  I think at least until Xmas 2014 would be reasonable.  If we're still struggling then I'd be in favour of a new man coming in for the second half of the 2014/15 season.

[AJS]

 

Look what happened after sticking with butcher after a couple of dodgy seasons, flirting with relegation.

 

What seasons were these?

 

As for those saying the expectation this year was avoiding relegation, I'll repeat myself and point out how close we were to the UEFA Cup last time out, our expectations were much higher this year as they should've been.

 

 

Butcher had his rocky spells, lets not forget during our "transitional" season that saw the influx from down south and the departure of the old guard we spent a large chunk of time bottom of the table and struggling to win and keep players on the field...no matter how well we played. Some people wanted him gone for what he was doing and the board backed him by giving him a new 2 year contract and after that season he never looked back. 

 

Under Butcher we climbed our way back up, held our own and beat some odds but it was probably a full 3 seasons before he got us anywhere near to fulfilling our potential. Im not saying its gonna be that long under Yogi and tbh after seeing this team at there best there would be no excuse for taking that long to get them playing like that again but patience really is necessary at a time like this.

 

The only extensive time Yogi will get with the players to implement ideas and strategies without the pressure of the league is pre season, as well as recruiting some new bodies. Only after this has been should we really judge him. 

[KingBeastie]

I really do think that ICT and John Hughes do have the potential to be a perfect match for each other.

The way the club and fans think and Hughes honesty and philosophy - it's all potentially there.

I'm not saying I think this will happen tho.

And I'm not happy with our league results of late as are the majority of fans.  However it's too early to be calling for a replacement to be found.

Anyone who thinks getting rid now would be a good thing should maybe take a wee lie down.  Perhaps pour a large brandy or have a wee rummage with themselves and see if they feel a bit better after.

[clacher_holiday2]

 

 

Look what happened after sticking with butcher after a couple of dodgy seasons, flirting with relegation.

 

What seasons were these?

 

As for those saying the expectation this year was avoiding relegation, I'll repeat myself and point out how close we were to the UEFA Cup last time out, our expectations were much higher this year as they should've been.

 

 

Butcher had his rocky spells, lets not forget during our "transitional" season that saw the influx from down south and the departure of the old guard we spent a large chunk of time bottom of the table and struggling to win and keep players on the field...no matter how well we played. Some people wanted him gone for what he was doing and the board backed him by giving him a new 2 year contract and after that season he never looked back. 

 

Under Butcher we climbed our way back up, held our own and beat some odds but it was probably a full 3 seasons before he got us anywhere near to fulfilling our potential. Im not saying its gonna be that long under Yogi and tbh after seeing this team at there best there would be no excuse for taking that long to get them playing like that again but patience really is necessary at a time like this.

 

The only extensive time Yogi will get with the players to implement ideas and strategies without the pressure of the league is pre season, as well as recruiting some new bodies. Only after this has been should we really judge him. 

 

Where have I ever said I was a fan of Butcher?

 

The transitional season you're talking about had Dunfermline in the relegation spot for the entire season unless my memory has failed me, we were never in any danger of going down.

 

Our first season back in the SPL had us challenging for 3rd right up until the new year, so its not as if it took 3 years for Butcher to turn it around.  I don't dispute the transitional season being a downer but necessary, when he was questioned on his approach, he had already earned the right to do what he wanted with the squad having gotten us straight back up in one season imo,  Hughes has nothing in his track record to automatically deserve the fans respect.

[tm4tj]

I'm sick of the lot of you, you are all sacked.

[AJS]

 

 

 

Look what happened after sticking with butcher after a couple of dodgy seasons, flirting with relegation.

 

What seasons were these?

 

As for those saying the expectation this year was avoiding relegation, I'll repeat myself and point out how close we were to the UEFA Cup last time out, our expectations were much higher this year as they should've been.

 

 

Butcher had his rocky spells, lets not forget during our "transitional" season that saw the influx from down south and the departure of the old guard we spent a large chunk of time bottom of the table and struggling to win and keep players on the field...no matter how well we played. Some people wanted him gone for what he was doing and the board backed him by giving him a new 2 year contract and after that season he never looked back. 

 

Under Butcher we climbed our way back up, held our own and beat some odds but it was probably a full 3 seasons before he got us anywhere near to fulfilling our potential. Im not saying its gonna be that long under Yogi and tbh after seeing this team at there best there would be no excuse for taking that long to get them playing like that again but patience really is necessary at a time like this.

 

The only extensive time Yogi will get with the players to implement ideas and strategies without the pressure of the league is pre season, as well as recruiting some new bodies. Only after this has been should we really judge him. 

 

Where have I ever said I was a fan of Butcher?

 

The transitional season you're talking about had Dunfermline in the relegation spot for the entire season unless my memory has failed me, we were never in any danger of going down.

 

Our first season back in the SPL had us challenging for 3rd right up until the new year, so its not as if it took 3 years for Butcher to turn it around.  I don't dispute the transitional season being a downer but necessary, when he was questioned on his approach, he had already earned the right to do what he wanted with the squad having gotten us straight back up in one season imo,  Hughes has nothing in his track record to automatically deserve the fans respect.

 

 

Survival was only confirmed with 3 games to go and there were several occasions that year we fell to the bottom of the table. So yes we were at times in danger of going down. 

 

Im not saying Hughes automatically deserves fans respect...but he does deserve support, and a bit of patience within a realistic amount of time, its only fair.

[Guest Mahonio]

I would love to be proved wrong and maybe with right signings I could be proved wrong.

He doesn't need many signings imo, probably only a Striker or 2.

In no way am I saying that we will be fighting relegation next season, I am always optimistic, even the year we got relegated, I was optimistic, same as year before when we were miles behind Dundee. I am still even optimistic about Europe, only need to start a good run, starting with Partick at weekend.

I will say it again, I started this discussion to guage opinion, not to start arguments, so this time, I am going to stay off this thread, I knew as soon as I posted it that negative response was inevitable, was reluctant to start it but did just to see if vast majority backed gaffer, which they do bar 2.

[Jeepsaw]

As much as we would all want it we can't realistically be a team pushing for Europe every season. The last two seasons have been an amazing achievement and to keep a club our size challenging for high league places and cup finals then we don't sack a manager before time, before they have even brought in a few players and had a pre season with them.

Give him a chance and see where we are by October

[clacher_holiday2]

I will say it again, I started this discussion to guage opinion, not to start arguments, so this time, I am going to stay off this thread, I knew as soon as I posted it that negative response was inevitable, was reluctant to start it but did just to see if vast majority backed gaffer, which they do bar 2.

 

I wouldn't go that far, the consensus among those not burying their heads in the sand appears to be things are going terrible but now isn't the time to talk about it, as I posted myself earlier in this thread.

 

Those with their head in the sand think hes doing a wonderful job, clinging onto the magnificent effort he brought out of the team to beat the worst performing SPL team in years in a semi final and being kept in the top 6 by Hibs and Super J's inconsistency.

[+DoofersDad]

I will say it again, I started this discussion to guage opinion, not to start arguments, so this time, I am going to stay off this thread, I knew as soon as I posted it that negative response was inevitable, was reluctant to start it but did just to see if vast majority backed gaffer, which they do bar 2.

OK.  I'll bite!  I wonder what you mean by negative response?  Do you mean folk not backing the manager or people not agreeing with you?  Your original post is the single most negative thing on this thread.  If you wanted to simply gauge opinion why did you not simply ask "what do folk think of John Hughes' perfomance as manager so far?" 

 

And please don't get huffy and take every comment disagreeing with you so personally.  We all respect your right to express an opinion.  But please, if you don't wan't an argument, don't make a provocative statement to start a thread! 

 

And for the benefit of C_H2, I don't think anyone on here is actually saying Hughes is doing a wonderful job, folk are simply saying it is far to early to judge him one way or another.

[CaleyD]

I would love to be proved wrong and maybe with right signings I could be proved wrong.

He doesn't need many signings imo, probably only a Striker or 2.

In no way am I saying that we will be fighting relegation next season, I am always optimistic, even the year we got relegated, I was optimistic, same as year before when we were miles behind Dundee. I am still even optimistic about Europe, only need to start a good run, starting with Partick at weekend.

I will say it again, I started this discussion to guage opinion, not to start arguments, so this time, I am going to stay off this thread, I knew as soon as I posted it that negative response was inevitable, was reluctant to start it but did just to see if vast majority backed gaffer, which they do bar 2.

 

You tease...getting our hopes up that you weren't going to be back and then posting again.

[Guest Mahonio]

I will say it again, I started this discussion to guage opinion, not to start arguments, so this time, I am going to stay off this thread, I knew as soon as I posted it that negative response was inevitable, was reluctant to start it but did just to see if vast majority backed gaffer, which they do bar 2.

OK. I'll bite! I wonder what you mean by negative response? Do you mean folk not backing the manager or people not agreeing with you? Your original post is the single most negative thing on this thread. If you wanted to simply gauge opinion why did you not simply ask "what do folk think of John Hughes' perfomance as manager so far?"

And please don't get huffy and take every comment disagreeing with you so personally. We all respect your right to express an opinion. But please, if you don't wan't an argument, don't make a provocative statement to start a thread!

And for the benefit of C_H2, I don't think anyone on here is actually saying Hughes is doing a wonderful job, folk are simply saying it is far to early to judge him one way or another. I mean negative as in not agreeing with me and I haven't complained as they are fair comments and in response to CaleyD, I am going to come on here and post to guys like you and IHE for your ott posts!!

Edited March 20, 2014 by Mahonio

[Renegade]

I wonder if Hughes's entire style is what the problem is.  Under Terry Butcher, if we won but played badly, Butcher would give them a rollicking.  I know that for a fact.  Butcher ruled the players with an iron fist.  The impression I get from Hughes is he's a bit more pally with them.  I wonder if say last night, where we played alright on the whole but got beat, Hughes's team talk is somewhere along the lines of "Nevermind lads.  You played alright."  A pally manager can work, but not always and it's often circumstantial.  I wonder if Hughes's approach has led to the players thinking "Oh well, we don't need to win anymore, just give it a good go."  That's where problems start, as Aberdeen found out post-Ferguson.

 

Hughes's teams have never been big goalscorers, not at this level anyway.  I was speaking to someone who's interviewed Hughes quite a few times and he said to me that Hughes's Falkirk "was like watching a Barcelona that never scored goals."  I think the true could soon be said for us.  There's nothing wrong with keeping the ball, but there's a time to go a bit more direct - not necessarily long balls, but forward passes and getting the ball into the box.  We all want to see passing football, but not for the sake of it, allowing the opposition to regain their positions and at times taking our own zip out of attacks.  Under Butcher the players had a real drive a lot of the time to get forward and score goals.  I don't seem to see that so much now.

 

How good is Hughes's record compared to others?  Is his record any better than the likes of Ian MacCall's, Ivan Golac's or Alex Smith's?  Not particularly.  In hindsight, should we have gone for Paul Hartley?  Yes.  If the board could go back in time, would they appoint Hartley instead?  I wouldn't be surprised.  Hughes is a man who applied for the Hamilton Accies job when Billy Reid left and failed to get it.

 

Should Hughes be sacked?  Of course not, certainly not for now anyway.  While I think he may well benefit from the good signings of Butcher and Marsella, he needs to at least get some time to show what he can do and show us that he can get it right.  If we really are looking poor, say a third of the way through next season, then that will be the time to make a decision and if he's doing so poorly that he needs punted, then that's what we should do.  For now, he should be given time and he will no doubt get it.

 

Despite this though, going from what we're seeing on the pitch and looking at his previous record, fans have the right to be concerned and be free to air their views without being labeled as "idiots" and other such terms.  I thought the aim for this club was top six, cup finals and Europe.  Now "happy clappers" are telling us that we all should just be happy with staying up.  The worried ones are the ones who want the club to kick on.  The ones who are easily pleased with just staying up, if anything, are the real negative ones.  Only the manager and the immediate staff have changed - not the players who got us to second, yet people are now happy with just staying up and attack those who want to push on to bigger things.  That's the type of attitude that'll get us nowhere.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Renegade

[CaleyD]

 

 

I will say it again, I started this discussion to guage opinion, not to start arguments, so this time, I am going to stay off this thread, I knew as soon as I posted it that negative response was inevitable, was reluctant to start it but did just to see if vast majority backed gaffer, which they do bar 2.

OK. I'll bite! I wonder what you mean by negative response? Do you mean folk not backing the manager or people not agreeing with you? Your original post is the single most negative thing on this thread. If you wanted to simply gauge opinion why did you not simply ask "what do folk think of John Hughes' perfomance as manager so far?"

And please don't get huffy and take every comment disagreeing with you so personally. We all respect your right to express an opinion. But please, if you don't wan't an argument, don't make a provocative statement to start a thread!

And for the benefit of C_H2, I don't think anyone on here is actually saying Hughes is doing a wonderful job, folk are simply saying it is far to early to judge him one way or another.

I am negative as in not agreeing with me and I haven't complained as they are fair comments and in response to CaleyD, I am going to come on here and post to guys like you and IHE for your ott posts!!

 

 

That's great news....honest!

[ilpadrino]

I was willing to give Hughes time but ever since the 0-5 at Parkhead, that has changed!!

Yes, we reached Cup Final and top 6 again but that was guaranteed before Butcher left.

His record here is ridiculous, he was a defender and yet our defence is poor just now.

Hughes MUST GO imo!!

 

 

Least someone agrees with me but if you see title of thread, it is SHOULD Hughes be sacked, not Hughes out, I gave my opinion which I am entitled to just same as you guys are, if you don't like my opinion then TOUGH!

Some people just **** me off at times and it is ALWAYS same people!

 

Okay, so you asked the question and when people disagreed with you, you got annoyed at them.  Don't ask if you don't want to know, and "if you don't like my opinion then TOUGH!" is an aggressive challenge, so don't say such things then cry when anyone takes the challenge.

 

By the way, if you say you're about to shut up about something, try to last at least two hours before you come back to the thread.

 

All in all, you sound just like the guy who started a similar thread about Butcher.     I wonder what happened to him, and if he ever grew up.