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Will Westminster MP's sanction the Vow


Alex MacLeod

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Out of interest, did anyone on this site make any submissions to the Smith Commission?

Yes.

 

I made the point that it was more important to get any changes to devolved powers right than get them quickly and that therefore the Commission should not allow itself to be bullied into meeting unrealistic timetables. 

 

It was the three musketeers that stated the timetable for the delivery of all the extra power that they promised, they should not have made promises that they could not keep before the next General Election!

 

I also made the point that the referendum was about independence and nothing else.  There has been no democratic test of the appetitie of the electorate for further devolved powers.  I therefore requested that any proposed legislation to make significant changes to the legislation should be put to the electorate in a referendum.

 

Another referendum CB would enjoy that :ohmy: 

 

Interestingly I recieved no acknowledgement of my submission.

 

Now that's no surprise.

 

 

 

 

There is Buckley's chance that the invitation to the ordinary punter to stick their oar in was ever going to be anything other than a cosmetic exercise, given the level of responses and the timescale allowed, but was inserted to make it appear that the Smith Commission gave a toss about what we punters thought. If anyone thinks otherwise, I suspect the zip in the back of their heads has stuck half way down/up, and the top half of their brains have escaped from reality.

 

I have, over the piece, before and during the referendum, responded to various Scottish Government initiatives, like the terms of the written constitution, and in every case have had, at the very least, an acknowledgment of my input. I never assumed that meant they had read it, tbh, (I'm not daft), but it did show that  they gave enough of a toss to bother to set up what was probably an automated response. Westminster /the Smith Commission,it appears, did not even feel they had any obligation at all to courteously acknowledge anything they received which was not produced by someone appointed to sit on the Commission from the various political parties....and .which illustrates, imo, that, having "won" the referendum, they no longer felt they had, or feel they have, any obligation to even acknowledge and accommodate any of the opinions of those of the hoi polloi who voted in it, whether they voted YES or NO, in the VOW scenario.

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Charles you may have been a decent teacher but political and financial journalist you are certainly not. I like the way you've used the typical redtop journalistic approach in choosing the paragraph you quote. Without the paragraph above and below it it can be made to look totally different to the actual story.

 

http://www.macrotrends.net/1369/crude-oil-price-history-chart

 

Big news Charles. The price is, at this moment, at its lowest for five years. Wait a minute though. Where was it five years and nine months ago. And guess what. It went back up. If you use the cursor on the linked chart you'll see the price in November at just over $65. In December its just under $69. Signs of an upturn maybe?

Do you honestly think the people who control the oil market are going to allow themselves to suffer. The Arabs are pissed off at American shale oil production so the create a price fall to shut down the shale oil producers then the price goes back up and its the Arabs who reap the benefits again.

 

Here's a line from USA Today that should please many Charles:- Low prices could also make new oil extraction technologies, such as fracking, less profitable.

OPEC have considerably less power than they once did but they do still have the advantage that they have reserves which are cheap to exploit and can therefore force prices down.  What they no longer have is the power to force prices up to previous levels.  What the American fracking has shown us is that oil can be extracted in large quantities by that method at a price which is competetive at prices which have been paid in recent years.  This is why prices have fallen. 

 

OPEC could theoretically up production and drop prices to squeeze the frackers but only at the cost of rapidly depleting their reserves whilst significantly reducing their profits.  That would not be a sensible long term option.  If they try to increase prices both the Americans and the Russians will undercut them.  All the signs are that oil prices will not be bouncing up to the kind of level the SNP were suggesting in the referendum campaign.  Had we made the mistake of voting "YES" in September, an independent Scotland would be facing a very uncertain economic future indeed.

 

As of close of play on friday the oil price dropped such that shale oil recovery cannot break even. In the next few weeks the price will drop further. Shale oil production will slow down. The glut in the market will deplete and the price will start to rise. At that point the Saudi's will reduce output for a few weeks to create a bigger shortage thus increasing the price further. The price will reach a stable plateau and the Saudis will make big money. Fracking will resume and the whole process will start again. Five yearly cycle will be the norm. Watch this space.

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I Have often wondered why the term Westminster has come into vogue in describing the Hoses of Parliament in London

I feel it started with the SNP wanting to make  a psychological impact on the mental attitude to England  and the British government

Westminster is one of the places I have lived , in is very big. You catch a bus outside Charing cross station and 45 minutes later you are up the Harrow Road still in  The City of Westminster . Although in London Westminster is an independent City with a population well in excess  of 220,000 people, it is much to big to site it as the seat of government usually in a smearing way.

To be correct the seat of government is in Whitehall ( see the attached link)

 

http://resources.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/questions/london/whitehall.html

 

Happy Christmas all

Edited by Laurence
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My view is take all the power away from Holyrood it is an expensive waste of time

The money 41 billion should be divided up and sent to the councils in Scotland. To stop these cuts the local authority are stuck with because of the council tax freeze.

 

I have not spoken to any NO voter who thinks Holyrood should have more power and they were conned in anyway

 

 

To my mind the whole debate on extra powers is because the SNP are sore losers.

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Kingsmill you may be the darling of this forum

But in my book you are a complete dimwit

 

Scottish Independence  would only put the country in Sh1t street

 

Very little is manufactured in Scotland

200 trucks an hour virtually 24/7 cross the border from England every hour carrying imports

 

Scotland could no way pay for that, even with a stolen pound

 

Oil  is not strong enough

There are too few tax payers  what about a million  adults paying not more than two grand each

a bit of Vat

a bit of corporation tax

And the massive numbers claiming benefit

 

Sh1T street is two good a call

 

I am 71 years old I hope I am gone before this wonderful country ends up on skid row because of a false patriotic agenda put forward like dimwits like you

 

Just go in Debenhams, or Tesco, or Argos, and identify the good imported. These are all paid for from the GB treasury. A big ask for a small economy. You forget there are 12 tax payers in the UK for every one in Scotland. Be grateful you are being looked after by the rest of the UK

 

The SNP are useless there handling of funding to the regions is disgraceful. Roads will be left ungritted in the Highlands, schools will be closed, because the SNP are looking after the Central Belt.

 

The Nats couldn't run a bath let alone a country

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Kingsmill you may be the darling of this forum

But in my book you are a complete dimwit

 

Scottish Independence  would only put the country in Sh1t street

 

Very little is manufactured in Scotland

200 trucks an hour virtually 24/7 cross the border from England every hour carrying imports

 

Scotland could no way pay for that, even with a stolen pound

 

Oil  is not strong enough

There are too few tax payers  what about a million  adults paying not more than two grand each

a bit of Vat

a bit of corporation tax

And the massive numbers claiming benefit

 

Sh1T street is two good a call

 

I am 71 years old I hope I am gone before this wonderful country ends up on skid row because of a false patriotic agenda put forward like dimwits like you

 

Just go in Debenhams, or Tesco, or Argos, and identify the good imported. These are all paid for from the GB treasury. A big ask for a small economy. You forget there are 12 tax payers in the UK for every one in Scotland. Be grateful you are being looked after by the rest of the UK

 

The SNP are useless there handling of funding to the regions is disgraceful. Roads will be left ungritted in the Highlands, schools will be closed, because the SNP are looking after the Central Belt.

 

The Nats couldn't run a bath let alone a country

 

You-Mad-bro.jpg

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Kingsmill you may be the darling of this forum

But in my book you are a complete dimwit

Scottish Independence would only put the country in Sh1t street

Very little is manufactured in Scotland

200 trucks an hour virtually 24/7 cross the border from England every hour carrying imports

Scotland could no way pay for that, even with a stolen pound

Oil is not strong enough

There are too few tax payers what about a million adults paying not more than two grand each

a bit of Vat

a bit of corporation tax

And the massive numbers claiming benefit

Sh1T street is two good a call

I am 71 years old I hope I am gone before this wonderful country ends up on skid row because of a false patriotic agenda put forward like dimwits like you

Just go in Debenhams, or Tesco, or Argos, and identify the good imported. These are all paid for from the GB treasury. A big ask for a small economy. You forget there are 12 tax payers in the UK for every one in Scotland. Be grateful you are being looked after by the rest of the UK

The SNP are useless there handling of funding to the regions is disgraceful. Roads will be left ungritted in the Highlands, schools will be closed, because the SNP are looking after the Central Belt.

The Nats couldn't run a bath let alone a country

What a condescending load of pish. 'Looked after' indeed.

Strangely having a go at the Nats being unable to run a country when the fabulous Westminster (sorry Whitehall) government have done so well with things such as- meteoric rise in food banks, illegal unwanted wars, lying about tuition fees, being asleep at the wheel for the biggest financial collapse in generations, expenses scandal, giving themselves a huge pay raise, building a naval base in Bahrain when we're supposedly in austerity, failing to close tax loopholes allowing huge businesses to pay little or no tax... need I go on?

Edited by Fraz
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Laurence, I understand your frustration at the SNP not going away after the referendum defeat, but it we are fortunate to live in a society that practices democracy.

 

If anything, the Nats have been rejuvenated after the vote and many now believe the inevitable is closer than even dyed-in-the-wool-nationalists could have thought.

Despite the voting system (in the Scottish parliament) having a combination of first past the post and list candidates (to ensure an outright majority is unlikely), the Scottish National Party WILL, I'm sure, do just that - assemble a majority government in 2016.

And, as is their right, and basically their raison d'etre, they'd have every right (assuming it was included in their manifesto - which it will be) to call another Independence referendum.

That's democracy.

 

And with a UK General Election in 4 months time, and inevitably with the same old parties ruling us by career politicians at the helm, I reckon the disillusioned people of Scotland will vote in FAVOUR of a split this time!

 

Incidentally, 55% v 45% is not a comfortable win.

Think of a football team.

6 against: 5 for. That's the equivalent percentage.

If one of the 'against' members jumped-ship - would that suddenly make the Pro-independence faction 'comfortably ahead'? Of course not.

It shows what a fine line there is - but it's a line the supporters of Scottish home rule only have to cross once - and whether it be in 4 years, 40 years or 400 years, it IS inevitably going to happen.

Laurence, you need to wake-up and smell that Speyside Whisky!

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Kingsmill you may be the darling of this forum

But in my book you are a complete dimwit

 

Scottish Independence  would only put the country in Sh1t street

 

Very little is manufactured in Scotland

200 trucks an hour virtually 24/7 cross the border from England every hour carrying imports

 

Scotland could no way pay for that, even with a stolen pound

 

Oil  is not strong enough

There are too few tax payers  what about a million  adults paying not more than two grand each

a bit of Vat

a bit of corporation tax

And the massive numbers claiming benefit

 

Sh1T street is two good a call

 

I am 71 years old I hope I am gone before this wonderful country ends up on skid row because of a false patriotic agenda put forward like dimwits like you

 

Just go in Debenhams, or Tesco, or Argos, and identify the good imported. These are all paid for from the GB treasury. A big ask for a small economy. You forget there are 12 tax payers in the UK for every one in Scotland. Be grateful you are being looked after by the rest of the UK

 

The SNP are useless there handling of funding to the regions is disgraceful. Roads will be left ungritted in the Highlands, schools will be closed, because the SNP are looking after the Central Belt.

 

The Nats couldn't run a bath let alone a country

....and a very merry Yuletide to you too Laurence and, in the seasonal spirit of goodwill, I shall refrain from reporting the personal abuse in your post.

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....and a very merry Yuletide to you too Laurence and, in the seasonal spirit of goodwill, I shall refrain from reporting the personal abuse in your post.

 

Despite disagreeing vehemently with Kingsmills on the issue in question, I would also want to condemn the overtly abusive tone of Laurence's comments.

To make things worse, the "political" assertions in the posts in question read like the script of an old Party Referendum Broadcast on behalf of UKIP. :crazy:

Laurence... some people on here say that I'm a bit of a Unionist :lol: but I would want to distance myself from the fiction you've come up with there as fast as my legs can carry me!

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Cmon, own up. Who stole Charlie's login :lol:

Yes, very funny :laugh: but in all seriousness, terms like the one used by Laurence about Kingsmills need to be avoided.

 

In addition, I just don't know why Laurence found it necessary to come up with all that political fiction about 200 trucks an hour and so on, with which I would prefer not to associate myself.  There were already plenty of gaping holes exposed in the Separatist case during the referendum campaign - holes which have become all the more gaping now that the oil price has gone bellyup and is struggling to stabilise at little more than half the value on which Salmond based his assertions of solvency.

All we need is for the price to drop just a little bit more and the SNP will surely invent an entirely new slogan... "IT'S ENGLAND'S OIL".

 

Now.... have I managed to write this in a single "take" before pressing "post"? :amazed:

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What's wrong with you Laurence?  Delusions of grandeur and  thinking you came from Arabia or summat?

Got out of the bed on the wrong side today or yesterday did we?  Mon Dieu, Monsieur, tu  est un cochon!

 

What a disturbing, disparaging diatribe of uninformative, detrimental drivel.  All this stuff about the size of the Borough of Westminster--so what?

The use of that W word is universally applied in reference to that august Chamber of half-asleep Yo-Yo' and, regardless of what you think, it will, continue till the cows come home, unabated.

 

But the other members of this august Forum are right. The way you address Kingsmills is unacceptable. He has just as much right to his opinion, and  his own way expressing it , as you or anyone else., including  the red and apoplectic Scarlet laddie.

 

And please don't forget , my good man, that    " there but for the grace of Golly Gosh go I."

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just thought those of you who might live outside Scotland, but be heading back home after visiting family here over the holidays........remember to change your Scottish notes for English, for seemingly, in Germany, at least, and I'd be surprised if it was only applicable in Germany.......the response to changing Scottish/notes for Euros is  "Sorry,  since October 1st 2014, we can only change Bank of England notes from the UK". and "Apparently the British Government in London recommended that all European banks only change English notes, I'm sorry, it seems to be a political decision."

 

Better Together?   Hell, Yeah........isn't that blatantly obvious?  And we have every single pound of our issued notes covered by deposits in the Bank of England....which is a sight more than can be said for the Bank of England currency, which is covered by fecking borrowing we all have to pay!

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That's really interesting since the Fiduciary issue of Scottish Banks  (as you describe as being fully covered etc) is legal tender in Britain.

 

I think that if Cameron and Co try to bypass that then a legal challenge could kill off his political career.

 

Would the mighty Royal Bank of Scotland allow him to get away with that?

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 "Sorry,  since October 1st 2014, we can only change Bank of England notes from the UK". and "Apparently the British Government in London recommended that all European banks only change English notes, I'm sorry, it seems to be a political decision."

 

Better Together?   Hell, Yeah........isn't that blatantly obvious? 

An interesting gripe off the back of Salmond's "Plan A" which was to have made Scotland a monetary client state by seceding from the UK but still using the its pound. The gripe this time appears to be that you can no longer exchange notes issued by two basket case corporations which had to be bailed out by the British Government some years ago - a move of which a Scottish government would have been financially incapable.

 

But hey.... we mustn't pass up any attempt to sow resentment and division, must we?

 

Quite frankly it would be far simpler if we used a single type of note right across the UK issued by the UK's national bank and lender of last resort rather than faff about with BoS and RBS issues as well.

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But CB--so long as my memory serves me, the Fiduciary Issue is  the amount that the banks in Scotland can issue Scottish Bank notes as valid currency without having to purchase B of E notes as cover. This way they make , or save, money.

 

Above that limit they have to have cover but I can't exactly remember in what form this must take--it's 40 years since I lived in Scotland!  But they will have to make some type of deposit in the B of E as surety. I think they have to buy B of E notes up to the amount they decide to issue as Scottish bank notes.

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But CB--so long as my memory serves me, the Fiduciary Issue is  the amount that the banks in Scotland can issue Scottish Bank notes as valid currency without having to purchase B of E notes as cover. This way they make , or save, money.

 

Above that limit they have to have cover but I can't exactly remember in what form this must take--it's 40 years since I lived in Scotland!  But they will have to make some type of deposit in the B of E as surety. I think they have to buy B of E notes up to the amount they decide to issue as Scottish bank notes.

Scarlet... I've never seen the point in BofS and RBS (and like you, I'm old enough to remember the British Linen Bank as well) issuing their own notes. Bank notes are functional and a means of allowing cash to circulate. Hence the simpler the system the better so it would be much less hassle for only the UK central bank to do this.

This would also save us those ongoing moans about Scottish notes not being "recognised", although it would also, of course, deprive the SNP of a potential source of greivance.

You don't see the likes of Texas and California issuing their own dollars and I am assuming that Manitoba and Quebec don't do likewise up in your neck of the woods, nor - pre Euro - did Bavaria and Prussia do their own Deutschmarks. It would be unnecessary duplication.

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But CB--so long as my memory serves me, the Fiduciary Issue is  the amount that the banks in Scotland can issue Scottish Bank notes as valid currency without having to purchase B of E notes as cover. This way they make , or save, money.

 

Above that limit they have to have cover but I can't exactly remember in what form this must take--it's 40 years since I lived in Scotland!  But they will have to make some type of deposit in the B of E as surety. I think they have to buy B of E notes up to the amount they decide to issue as Scottish bank notes.

 

From the BofE site 

 

Seven banks in Scotland and Northern Ireland are authorised to issue banknotes.  Legislation is in place to ensure that holders of banknotes issued by the authorised banks receive a level of protection similar to that provided to holders of Bank of England notes.  In particular, the banks must hold backing assets equivalent to all of their banknotes in circulation, to ensure that if one of the authorised banks were to fail there would be sufficient funds to pay out all noteholders.  The Bank of England monitors the seven banks’ compliance with this legislative regime.
 
The seven authorised banks (or their predecessors) have been regulated with regard to the backing of their banknotes since 1845. Part 6 of the Banking Act 2009 (the Act), which came into effect on 23 November 2009, updated and modernised the framework for commercial note issuance to provide enhanced noteholder protection.
 
Three banks are authorised to issue banknotes in Scotland:
  • Bank of Scotland plc;
  • Clydesdale Bank plc; and
  • The Royal Bank of Scotland plc.
 
Four banks are authorised to issue banknotes in Northern Ireland:
  • Bank of Ireland (UK) plc [1];
  • AIB Group (UK) plc (trades as First Trust Bank in Northern Ireland);
  • Northern Bank Limited (trades as Danske Bank); and
  • Ulster Bank Limited.

In the event of an authorised bank entering an insolvency process as defined in the Regulations, those assets will be ring-fenced for one year or any longer period that HM Treasury may decide, for the sole purpose of reimbursing noteholders through a Note Exchange Programme.

 

To back their banknote issue, authorised banks may use a combination of Bank of England banknotes, UK coin and funds in an interest bearing bank account at the Bank of England. Bank of England banknotes held as backing assets may be held at an authorised location or at the Bank of England. Banknotes held at the Bank may include £1 million notes (Giants) and £100 million notes (Titans), which in physical terms are permanently held at the Bank. These backing assets would be used in the event that the Bank had to implement a Note Exchange Programme.

 

May not have been quite the same in your days in Scotland, though, as it looks as if the rules may have been tightened up after the banking crash. 

 

Are Scottish & Northern Ireland banknotes "legal tender"?

In short ‘No’ these banknotes are not "legal tender"; furthermore, Bank of England banknotes are only legal tender in England and Wales. Legal tender has, however, a very narrow technical meaning in relation to the settlement of debt. If a debtor pays in legal tender the exact amount he/she owes under the terms of a contract (and in accordance with its terms), or pays this amount into court, he/she has good defence in law if he/she is sued for non-payment of the debt.

In ordinary everyday transactions, the term "legal tender" in its purest sense need not govern a banknote's acceptability in transactions. The acceptability of a Scottish or Northern Ireland banknote as a means of payment is essentially a matter for agreement between the parties involved. If both parties are in agreement, Scottish and Northern Ireland banknotes can be used in England and Wales.

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