Jump to content

Inverness CT -V- Partick Thistle


Scotty

Recommended Posts

caley100 : The season stretches until May next year, and as much as I'm keen to see us get a win, I really don't think an August league game can be described as a 'must win'!
Biggin : I don't agree that "...the first 3 games we should have been on 9pts...". That sort of thinking is where expectations sometimes exceed realism. Taking our best results from the corresponding fixtures last season - with (virtually unanimously agreed) our best ever team - we only got 4pts.

  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I doubt either Motherwell or St. Johnstone would play like they did against us throughout the whole campaign, if you look at it this way then similarly minded Partick fans must be wondering how on earth we managed to finish 3rd last year based on we were the worst team they played during last seasons campaign. You could say both teams St. Johnstone and Motherwell were poor when they played us, but you can't say how good or bad a team really is based on just one game you saw, especially this early in the season when teams are still finding their feet.

And we are only 3 games into the domestic season, not 5.

1 goal in 5 not 3 to exaggerate your point I suspect.

Some folks have no patience.

 

So we consider European and Domestic seasons to be separate?

Even if we do, 1 goal in 3 games is hardly stellar. I guess when Yogi said he was hoping for double figures, he meant the team as a whole.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I doubt either Motherwell or St. Johnstone would play like they did against us throughout the whole campaign, if you look at it this way then similarly minded Partick fans must be wondering how on earth we managed to finish 3rd last year based on we were the worst team they played during last seasons campaign. You could say both teams St. Johnstone and Motherwell were poor when they played us, but you can't say how good or bad a team really is based on just one game you saw, especially this early in the season when teams are still finding their feet.

And we are only 3 games into the domestic season, not 5.

1 goal in 5 not 3 to exaggerate your point I suspect.

Some folks have no patience.

 

So we consider European and Domestic seasons to be separate?

Even if we do, 1 goal in 3 games is hardly stellar. I guess when Yogi said he was hoping for double figures, he meant the team as a whole.

 

Well you don't win a point in the league for drawing with Astra do we now?.

No 1 goal in 3 games isn't ideal either but we are only three games into the league and other teams are also struggling to score goals as well. There just needs to be a bit of patience and we have had a lot of disruption to the team with injuries. We still have a decent side and once these players come back it will get better and we can start climbing the table.

Edited by Snafu
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I doubt either Motherwell or St. Johnstone would play like they did against us throughout the whole campaign, if you look at it this way then similarly minded Partick fans must be wondering how on earth we managed to finish 3rd last year based on we were the worst team they played during last seasons campaign. You could say both teams St. Johnstone and Motherwell were poor when they played us, but you can't say how good or bad a team really is based on just one game you saw, especially this early in the season when teams are still finding their feet.

And we are only 3 games into the domestic season, not 5.

1 goal in 5 not 3 to exaggerate your point I suspect.

Some folks have no patience.

 

So we consider European and Domestic seasons to be separate?

Even if we do, 1 goal in 3 games is hardly stellar. I guess when Yogi said he was hoping for double figures, he meant the team as a whole.

 

Well you don't win a point in the league for drawing with Astra do we now?.

No 1 goal in 3 games isn't ideal either but we are only three games into the league and other teams are also struggling to score goals as well. There just needs to be a bit of patience and we have had a lot of disruption to the team with injuries. We still have a decent side and once these players come back it will get better and we can start climbing the table.

Didn't win any points in those Scottish Cup games we won last season, but I'm still glad we won them.

All these players can come back, but none of them is the regular goal scorer we need.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Given our difficult current situation, one player I might have expected more of is Greg Tansey.  Last season he was one of the lynch pins of the side and was a major, if often under appreciated, contributor to our success.  This season he seems to be less effective at a time when we really need him to step up and impose himself on games.  He is offering little going forward and seems a shadow of the player he was last year.  Despite the fact that we are currently weaker than last year with departures and injuries, his place in the side must be at risk with the way he has been playing.  Polworth was significantly more effective against Partick.  Lets hope he can rekindle last season's form - and soon.

Agree with this. Lopez seems to be the whipping boy at the minute, but for me Tansey has been the biggest passenger. His work rate is nowhere near good enough. Polworth and Horner have a fraction of his experience, but contributed far more than Tansey yesterday. For a guy who can strike a ball as well as anyone, his lack of goals and assists is disappointing. Vigurs created more off the bench than Tansey did in our last 2 home games. With the ability he has, you'd have to say he's massively underachieving.

  • Agree 1
  • Disagree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Plenty of talking points in that game despite the 0 - 0 score line. Great saves from both keepers to deny the likes of Doolan and Vigurs from scoring. Partick had the better of the first half whilst ICT were stronger in the second half. We seemed awfully shaky at the back and were really poor distributing the ball from the centre. Both Draper and Devine were pretty poor and Draper seemed to gesture to the home fans after one error brought a chorus of groans and shouts. That said one of those two did well to clear a header off the line or onto the bar in the first half before Fon Williams made a smart save getting down low to his right to push away a net bound Doolan strike. He also pulled off a cracking save turning one effort onto the bar with the follow up blazed over but the Partick attacker was offside anyway. ICTs best chances fell to  Vigurs when his free kick bent round the wall but was halted by Cerny and then Mutumbo couldn't quite get on to the ball after he had lobbed it over the keeper (I think) right at the death.

ICT were again very poor for large parts of the game. Lopez looks absolutely lost right now. He seems to get in the way and Hibs up our attacks before falling over looking for free kicks for next to nothing. Very concerning if we don't try and strengthen the striking position. As mentioned already Draper and Devine seemed to struggle a wee bit last night although Williams did well at LB and I think we will see him there from now on. Vigurs also did well after he came on but you could see his short of a bit of match fitness. Definitely a few boos for him from the North Stand! Polworth was okay but Tansey seemed out of sorts and made a couple of rash tackles which seems awfully unlike him. We didn't really stretch the play and the middle of the pitch became very congested which perhaps led to a degree of frustration for Tansey who didn't have much space or time to get into his usual rhythm.

As others have said once players come back to full fitness we should be fine but I think we can safely rule out matching the dizzy heights of last season and it wouldn't surprise me to see us be a but like Aberdeen were a few seasons back - i.e. involved in a lot of low scoring games because right now we aren't creating an awful lot and the few chances we do create we are not taking.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Both Draper and Devine were pretty poor ......as mentioned already Draper and Devine seemed to struggle a wee bit last night

 

Draper is a bomb scare at central defence, how many times did he have a slack pass/header? whoooaaa get him the **** out of there.

 

 both Devine and Draper struggled in possession and made several errors.  

 

John Hughes: "I thought Draper was outstanding tonight." 

:shrug:

Edited by Yngwie
  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I doubt either Motherwell or St. Johnstone would play like they did against us throughout the whole campaign, if you look at it this way then similarly minded Partick fans must be wondering how on earth we managed to finish 3rd last year based on we were the worst team they played during last seasons campaign. You could say both teams St. Johnstone and Motherwell were poor when they played us, but you can't say how good or bad a team really is based on just one game you saw, especially this early in the season when teams are still finding their feet.

And we are only 3 games into the domestic season, not 5.

1 goal in 5 not 3 to exaggerate your point I suspect.

Some folks have no patience.

 

So we consider European and Domestic seasons to be separate?

Even if we do, 1 goal in 3 games is hardly stellar. I guess when Yogi said he was hoping for double figures, he meant the team as a whole.

 

Well you don't win a point in the league for drawing with Astra do we now?.

No 1 goal in 3 games isn't ideal either but we are only three games into the league and other teams are also struggling to score goals as well. There just needs to be a bit of patience and we have had a lot of disruption to the team with injuries. We still have a decent side and once these players come back it will get better and we can start climbing the table.

Didn't win any points in those Scottish Cup games we won last season, but I'm still glad we won them.

All these players can come back, but none of them is the regular goal scorer we need.

It would be nice to have someone who can go on a bit a goalscoring spree, but first of all we need to create the opportunities which we aren't creating enough, this might just be down to the type or blend of team we currently have rather than on individuals, not much can be done about that though Vigurs has brought a bit more adventure when we go forward. But our goals should also be coming from others as well and we had a good spread of goals around the 1st team last season, almost everyone chipping in. But it must be hard for Lopez getting all this stick right at the start of his time here, I would have a little more patience with him. I think our problem does lie with our midfield and the way we play far far too cautious at times, but then it does work for us but maybe not with the way we are currently set up, so once we get players back we will see.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On Saturday I thought I was watching in slow motion when Lopez was on the ball. His touch is OK, but his speed of execution would be inadequate in league 1.

But imagine if he scores a brace against Celtic on Saturday and we win........minds blown everywhere. :blink::laugh:

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On Saturday I thought I was watching in slow motion when Lopez was on the ball. His touch is OK, but his speed of execution would be inadequate in league 1.

But imagine if he scores a brace against Celtic on Saturday and we win........minds blown everywhere. :blink::laugh:

 

There are not enough mind-altering substances for me to imagine such a thing,

  • Agree 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some parallels with last season - 4th league fixture, we're playing Celtic - they've got a huge European game next-up in a few days....
Last season, they 'rested' 10 players and we won 1-0! I don't think they'll be too bothered about this game. If it was allowed, and Yogi and Ronny had a chat on the phone - "don't bother coming down, will you take a 0-0, John?", I think both parties would take that!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I doubt either Motherwell or St. Johnstone would play like they did against us throughout the whole campaign, if you look at it this way then similarly minded Partick fans must be wondering how on earth we managed to finish 3rd last year based on we were the worst team they played during last seasons campaign. You could say both teams St. Johnstone and Motherwell were poor when they played us, but you can't say how good or bad a team really is based on just one game you saw, especially this early in the season when teams are still finding their feet.

And we are only 3 games into the domestic season, not 5.

1 goal in 5 not 3 to exaggerate your point I suspect.

Some folks have no patience.

 

So we consider European and Domestic seasons to be separate?

Even if we do, 1 goal in 3 games is hardly stellar. I guess when Yogi said he was hoping for double figures, he meant the team as a whole.

 

Well you don't win a point in the league for drawing with Astra do we now?.

No 1 goal in 3 games isn't ideal either but we are only three games into the league and other teams are also struggling to score goals as well. There just needs to be a bit of patience and we have had a lot of disruption to the team with injuries. We still have a decent side and once these players come back it will get better and we can start climbing the table.

Didn't win any points in those Scottish Cup games we won last season, but I'm still glad we won them.

All these players can come back, but none of them is the regular goal scorer we need.

It would be nice to have someone who can go on a bit a goalscoring spree, but first of all we need to create the opportunities which we aren't creating enough, this might just be down to the type or blend of team we currently have rather than on individuals, not much can be done about that though Vigurs has brought a bit more adventure when we go forward. But our goals should also be coming from others as well and we had a good spread of goals around the 1st team last season, almost everyone chipping in. But it must be hard for Lopez getting all this stick right at the start of his time here, I would have a little more patience with him. I think our problem does lie with our midfield and the way we play far far too cautious at times, but then it does work for us but maybe not with the way we are currently set up, so once we get players back we will see.

Couldn't agree less. The midfield is bereft of ideas for the final ball because there is no movement in front of them! The role of a lone striker is to:

(a) present a target to be hit, either for knock-downs or down the channels

(b) provide a distraction for the defence to make a hole for the ball-carrying midfielder or another to charge into

Lopez performs neither of these roles and the positions he takes up actually adds to the cluttrer in midfield. So (and this happened several times last night), when Christie gets a yard of space and lifts his head, there's no option ahead of him, so he ends up having to play it square. Compare this to Vigurs' ball to Mutombo in the last few minutes - he could play it because Mutombo called for it and made the run off the shoulder of the last defender (with the pace to get there first).

Somebody mentioned this after the St J game, but I definitely felt it last night: after the first few minutes, the players seemed to sub-conciously avoid passing to Lopez. Whether that was because he was never in space or whether it was because they feared he would undo all their hard work is impossible to tell.

For me, Lopez is a million miles form what we need and persevering with him would be a massive mistake.

  • Agree 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I doubt either Motherwell or St. Johnstone would play like they did against us throughout the whole campaign, if you look at it this way then similarly minded Partick fans must be wondering how on earth we managed to finish 3rd last year based on we were the worst team they played during last seasons campaign. You could say both teams St. Johnstone and Motherwell were poor when they played us, but you can't say how good or bad a team really is based on just one game you saw, especially this early in the season when teams are still finding their feet.

And we are only 3 games into the domestic season, not 5.

1 goal in 5 not 3 to exaggerate your point I suspect.

Some folks have no patience.

 

So we consider European and Domestic seasons to be separate?

Even if we do, 1 goal in 3 games is hardly stellar. I guess when Yogi said he was hoping for double figures, he meant the team as a whole.

 

Well you don't win a point in the league for drawing with Astra do we now?.

No 1 goal in 3 games isn't ideal either but we are only three games into the league and other teams are also struggling to score goals as well. There just needs to be a bit of patience and we have had a lot of disruption to the team with injuries. We still have a decent side and once these players come back it will get better and we can start climbing the table.

Didn't win any points in those Scottish Cup games we won last season, but I'm still glad we won them.

All these players can come back, but none of them is the regular goal scorer we need.

It would be nice to have someone who can go on a bit a goalscoring spree, but first of all we need to create the opportunities which we aren't creating enough, this might just be down to the type or blend of team we currently have rather than on individuals, not much can be done about that though Vigurs has brought a bit more adventure when we go forward. But our goals should also be coming from others as well and we had a good spread of goals around the 1st team last season, almost everyone chipping in. But it must be hard for Lopez getting all this stick right at the start of his time here, I would have a little more patience with him. I think our problem does lie with our midfield and the way we play far far too cautious at times, but then it does work for us but maybe not with the way we are currently set up, so once we get players back we will see.

Couldn't agree less. The midfield is bereft of ideas for the final ball because there is no movement in front of them! The role of a lone striker is to:

(a) present a target to be hit, either for knock-downs or down the channels

(b) provide a distraction for the defence to make a hole for the ball-carrying midfielder or another to charge into

Lopez performs neither of these roles and the positions he takes up actually adds to the cluttrer in midfield. So (and this happened several times last night), when Christie gets a yard of space and lifts his head, there's no option ahead of him, so he ends up having to play it square. Compare this to Vigurs' ball to Mutombo in the last few minutes - he could play it because Mutombo called for it and made the run off the shoulder of the last defender (with the pace to get there first).

Somebody mentioned this after the St J game, but I definitely felt it last night: after the first few minutes, the players seemed to sub-conciously avoid passing to Lopez. Whether that was because he was never in space or whether it was because they feared he would undo all their hard work is impossible to tell.

For me, Lopez is a million miles form what we need and persevering with him would be a massive mistake.

I agree about Lopez in as far as how he does seem very static (and this is not what we are used to), but there are other targets for the midfield to find as you mention Mutombo who was a constant moving target for our midfield to find or even Christie but all to often when those players were in good positions the midfield was to slow and cautious to attempt to find them instead preferred to pass the ball back the way. Lopez saw plenty of the ball last night but in nearly every head to head with an opposition player he came of second best even, but you can't blame him entirely for our lack of goals when other players are not either getting up or looking to find send that pass or cross to worry the opposition. Another player you mention Vigurs didn't have this cautious approach drilled into him and so bucked the trend by looking to get the ball forward at every opportunity. Something I noticed about both our home games was the complete lack of crosses in to the box or our wide players or anyone else attempting to get past the full back to get behind and swing a cross in.

In an ideal situation Lopez would not be a regular until he got himself near match fitness and his head in the right place, but this lack of options up front is something that should have been delt last season and there should have been a striker learning the ropes training with the 1st team with the occasional appearance until our main choice departs freeing up the striker position, like a conveyor belt. Some of our most prolific goalscorers took a year before getting an opportunity McKay, Rooney and Wyness for example. In my opinion Lopez has been thrown in far to early, but until we get our injured back or one of Yogi's loan signings we are just going put up with this situation.

Jeez, you'd think we are 3 months into the season not 3 matches.:lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Totally agree Snafu. We are being to cautious in midfield and that slows things down far too much. When play was quickened up in the last 10-15 minutes, things did look a bit better. Part of the problem is we have too many holding type midfield players who seem frightened to get forward. I am surprised some posters have said Horner and Polworth played well, they were average at best and created nothing. Our midfield is also slow to support when we are breaking for some unknown reason. We need to have runners from midfield but that is just not happening just now.

Defensively, we were not great in central defence and some posters need to remember Draper is not a natural centre back so he will make mistakes/wrong decisions there but who else do we paly there at the moment. he needs to be told to take no chances at the back as he tries to play too much football at times and his distribution was poor last night as was Devine's. This doesn't help as the poor passing just leads to the ball coming straight back at us.

As someone has pointed out, many of our top strikers took a while to get going so maybe Lopez will come good although the signs are not yet encouraging. Not getting too despondent yet and I think once we get Dorran, Vincent and Roberts back things will change.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Not getting too despondent yet and I think once we get Dorran, Vincent and Roberts back things will change."

This seems to be a commonly held view but in a way it illustrates just why some people are quite concerned at the moment.  Last season Doran started just 15 league games and Vincent 13.  That's about 1 in 3 matches for both of them and yet now suddenly we're hanging onto a hope that when they return, our attacking play will suddenly step up a gear or two.

But we did OK without them in the starting XI lest season, so why are we looking so bereft of ideas up front without them this season.  Getting Tremarco back and releasing Williams into the midfield will help but I really don't think you can pin our lacking of effectiveness upfront this season down to our injury "crisis"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Scotty unfeatured and unpinned this topic
"Not getting too despondent yet and I think once we get Dorran, Vincent and Roberts back things will change."

 

This seems to be a commonly held view but in a way it illustrates just why some people are quite concerned at the moment.  Last season Doran started just 15 league games and Vincent 13.  That's about 1 in 3 matches for both of them and yet now suddenly we're hanging onto a hope that when they return, our attacking play will suddenly step up a gear or two.

But we did OK without them in the starting XI lest season, so why are we looking so bereft of ideas up front without them this season.  Getting Tremarco back and releasing Williams into the midfield will help but I really don't think you can pin our lacking of effectiveness upfront this season down to our injury "crisis"

That may be true for Vincent and Dorran ( in my opinion Dorran should have started more games) but they give us more options. Dorran can take people on and get crosses in/create things. Vincent can also provide options running from midfield. With them in the team, we would be a much better and balanced team than we are at present. I do think we would be more effective this season with Dorran playing as we certainly created some openings against Astra with him playing

  • Agree 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. : Terms of Use : Guidelines : Privacy Policy