Performance of SNP in exercising devolved powers.

[+DoofersDad]

On 12/22/2015 at 11:03 PM, ed said:

I don't understand the SNP. At Westminster, they shriek and cry about 'austerity'. Their supporters / SNP voters do the same, especially on social media.

 

But the SNP have just delivered a hard hitting austerity budget at Holyrood. No complaints from their MP's. No social media out cry from their supporters.

 

So are the SNP folks on here *really* happy with their pro austerity budget or are they only really caring about a single issue?

Welcome to the forum, Ed!

I think the deafening silence from all the SNP folk on here provides the answer to your question.

But the point of the budget was not to do something the electorate would like or which the SNP think would be good for the country, it was to do something which was unpopular and which could be blamed on the Tories in Westminster.  Being able to blame the Westminster Government for the hardship facing many of our citizens is a far more important consideration for the SNP than the fact that our citizens are facing hardship.  Hence a budget that increases the hardship when currently devolved powers provided an opportunity to increase taxation of the better off in order to better address some of the social problems in our society.  The budget suits the SNP's purpose but is not something they want to debate.

[robbylad]

1 hour ago, DoofersDad said:

Welcome to the forum, Ed!

I think the deafening silence from all the SNP folk on here provides the answer to your question.

But the point of the budget was not to do something the electorate would like or which the SNP think would be good for the country, it was to do something which was unpopular and which could be blamed on the Tories in Westminster.  Being able to blame the Westminster Government for the hardship facing many of our citizens is a far more important consideration for the SNP than the fact that our citizens are facing hardship.  Hence a budget that increases the hardship when currently devolved powers provided an opportunity to increase taxation of the better off in order to better address some of the social problems in our society.  The budget suits the SNP's purpose but is not something they want to debate.

Unfortunately DD, it isn't possible just to raise the income tax on the better off. It would have to be raised across the board, hitting everyone who pays tax. 

Anyway, I'll take this opportunity to wish you and everyone else in these parts a very merry Christmas. 

[Charles Bannerman]

People who pay Income Tax ARE the better off, and they pay it in proportion to how well off they are.

DD is absolutely right. Priority number one for the SNP is generating discontent with Westminster and what a miserable and disaffected society they have created in recent years by creating antagonism among those who don't even realise they are being radicalised.

The other thought this Christmas Eve is the misery and Anglophobic, "Bah London", Scroogelike resentment which will hang over so many Nationalist Christmas dinner tables tomorrow, given that, rather like haemophilia, Scottish Nationalism is a disease which tends to run in families. Just imagine the miserable wakes that families of these political inbreds will hold as they sup their Scotch Broth, munch their Christmas haggis, chew their neeps and swallow their Festive porridge, all washed down with the best Malt Whisky - and all at 3pm so they can avoid watching The Queen. Oh - whilst opening their non-Palace of Westminster Christmas cards from their relevant representative of the 53 and a half.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Charles Bannerman

[bobbyjag]

It's immature, ignorant, generalising drivel, like the above which has the BBC only trusting Charles Bannerman with the latest tug of war updates from Drumnadrochit or the results from the knitting championships in Elphin, and not proper news. I've not spoken to a single former pupil of yours with a good word to say and you prove on here why, time and time again. It's embarrassing to watch, the constant nazi references, misogynic/racial undertones at times. We all know it hurts you dearly that the Snp continue their success, but maybe you should concentrate on why your arguments are failing and why the opposition is so terrible in Scotland (less than 50% of people know who Dugdale is) The constant demonising and obsessing over the Snp is clearly not working with the electorate and it's probably because many voices sound so negative, bitter and out of touch, just like our own Mr Scrooge on here. Merry Christmas one and all

Edited December 24, 2015 by bobbyjag

[Charles Bannerman]

They don't like it up 'em Captain Mainwaring. Those whingeing Jocks DO NOT like it up 'em!

Classic bit of Cybernattery from Bobbyjag there though. Right down to not realising that the correct word is actually "misogynistic".

 

Edited December 24, 2015 by Charles Bannerman

[bobbyjag]

A typo appraisal and a Dad's Army quote? Wow, that was a real zinger back CyberBritNat..

considering the debate on here could be an enjoyable spectacle,  it's just noteworthy how sour, negative, condescending and ugly your input reads, compared to some enjoyable inputs from both sides of the debate

 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2015 by bobbyjag

[+DoofersDad]

2 hours ago, robbylad said:

Unfortunately DD, it isn't possible just to raise the income tax on the better off. It would have to be raised across the board, hitting everyone who pays tax. 

Anyway, I'll take this opportunity to wish you and everyone else in these parts a very merry Christmas. 

Now this is the sort of response the SNP will give when you do actually get a response.  What Robbylad says is true in as far as it goes but it deliberately avoids the issue.  Whilst it was not in Swinney's power to increase the higher band of taxation, the fact remains that the poorest in our society do not pay any tax at all and those who earn just a bit above the income tax threshold pay very little.  As Robbylad correctly states, a rise in the basic rate of income tax would have hit everyone who pays income tax, but what he fails to acknowledge is that those who earn more would have paid more!

Robbylad also avoids the issue of the Council Tax which not only could have been raised but which could have been raised to a different degree within different bands.  Again this would have led to the better off paying proportionately more.  It was an option open to the SNP and it was an option they decided not to follow.  As a direct result of this politically motivated budget, the poorest and most vulnerable in our society will be worse of than they need to be. 

It is also worth picking up on Bobyjag's point about only 50% of folk knowing who Dugdale is.  What an appallingly depressing statistic that is in the way it reflects political engagement in Scotland!  If only 50% of the population know who the leader of the main opposition party is, then what hope is there that they actually listen to what politicians are saying, and follow and think about the arguments they make?  What hope is there that they actually explore issues beyond the kind of superficial and inherently misleading one liners of the type Robbylad posted?

Enough of this.  It's too depressing!  I can at least take comfort from the fact that we are not facing the New Year as an independent nation facing an uncertain economic future with depressed oil prices and the prospect of massive loan repayments.  Instead we remain part of a country with one of the strongest growing economies in the world and have the opportunity in May to elect a new Government which, unlike this wretched SNP administration, is prepared to use the devolved powers it has for the benefit of the people.

Thanks to Robbylad for his Christmas wishes and in turn I would like to wish him and everyone else a lovely festive break. 

[ed]

1 hour ago, bobbyjag said:

A typo appraisal and a Dad's Army quote? Wow, that was a real zinger back CyberBritNat..

considering the debate on here could be an enjoyable spectacle,  it's just noteworthy how sour, negative, condescending and ugly your input reads, compared to some enjoyable inputs from both sides of the debate

 

 

 

'CyberBritNat'... Interesting. I've noticed recently that a lot of Scottish Nationalists have used this tactic to respond to non-Nationalists. They've started calling 'no' voters 'Brit Nats' in some sort of bizarre attempt to justify their own nationalism.

 

During the English votes for English laws debate, the SNP were accusing Conservatives of having a 'grievance culture'. One of the most hypocritical political statements ever. SNP Nationalists with grievance culture accuse opponents of being Nationalists with a grievance culture. You couldn't make it up.

[+DoofersDad]

I note Sturgeon has been on her high horse again in line with her rather confused understanding of the democratic principle.  She wants Scotland to be exempted from the Trades Union Bill because she apparently thinks it is perfectly reasonable that workers be called out on strike on the say so of a minority of union members voting for strike action.  

She is also banging on about the the percieved outrageous situation there would be should Scotland vote to stay in the EU and the UK as whole vote to leave.  What a short memory she must have.  Had Highland voted to remain in the UK but Scotland as whole voted to leave, I don't think Highland would have been allowed to stay as part of the UK and nor would we have asked to do so.  It was a decision made by the Scottish electorate as whole for Scotland as a whole, and it was all or nothing.

The same applies with the EU.  The people of Scotland recently reaffirmed their wish to remain part of the UK.  What that means is that we should accept the collective will of the British people.  Ms Sturgeon's persistence in trying to force the will of minorities over the will of the majority is really getting tiresome.

[Charles Bannerman]

Shortly ago Sturgeon was also banging on about wanting ALL parts of the UK to vote to leave the EU before such a decision could be binding. So presumably she would be just as adamant that ALL parts of Scotland must vote to leave the UK before any decision of that nature could also become binding?

And now we seem to have Jum "persecute all pro-Union businesses" Sullurs breaking ranks with the rest of the separatist lobby and demanding that we leave the EU.

Let's face it, Sturgeon and her chums quite simply say whatever they think they need to say to con people into supporting them or to fabricate their latest grievance. As a result, the SNP have plunged a perfectly civilised society into a mire of division and resentment. What also alarms me is that, for them to have gained their current level of support, more people than I thought are clearly unable to understand even the basics of the issues.

But let's imagine that the SNP did call another Separation Referendum on the basis of a majority of Scottish voters opting to stay in the EU as against a small overall "OUT" majority across the entire constitutional entity which really matters here, the United Kingdom . (I actually have a hunch that the SNP's enthusiasm for Europe is less a matter of conviction but more the opportunist spotting of a possible source of grievancemongering, but never mind).

Anyway, let's also imagine that this developed into the ultimate nightmare scenario. Despite ongoing problems over currency, foreign policy, defence and God knows what else they were unable to provide answers for pre-September 2014  - PLUS the now suddenly disowned panacea which "was" Scotland's Oil having gone t!tsup - they actually got the single, slender Yes majority which is all they need to damn us all for all time. By now Britain has left the EU, so Scotland becomes a new applicant.

IF they did get Scotland into the EU, the situation is now a total pantomime. Here would be a tiny EU exclave/appendage, with a basketcase oil industry and using the bloody Euro which has just one border. And that's with a major world player with 11 times its population which Scotland - despite generations of Anglophobic rubbishing from the SNP - now desperately needs to be its main trading partner, but the said world player is no longer in the EU and uses the pound. Border controls, foreign exchange controls, trade tarrifs, an obligation to follow EU rules not designed for non-EU trade, no benefits for Scots staying south of Gretna etc etc. And does anyone REALLY think that the non-EU UKcontinuing would give a toss about Scotland if Oor Jock was sadly out of step with it?

I can, of course, already hear the Nats among us chuntering "Project Fear!" but sorry chaps. It's time you woke up to the fact that you can't simply add the several inconvenient truths of this debate to the SNP Handbook of Grudgery. You are running out of people daft enough to be conned by this nonsense. A similar situation would also apply at the frontier between Ireland and Northern Ireland, but here NI would have the advantage of being part of the much larger UKcontinuing so it's that member of the Arc Of Prosperity which is Ireland which would would suffer, albeit rather less than Scotland.

However, there is one part of DD's post that I just can't agree with - "Ms Sturgeon's persistence in trying to force the will of minorities over the will of the majority is really getting tiresome."  DD... it's not GETTING tiresome. It's been a complete pain in the backside for years!!

Edited January 22, 2016 by Charles Bannerman

[IBM]

Charles your Sports reporting for the BBC is ok but I hope they never ask you to report on anything to do with politics

[Charles Bannerman]

1 minute ago, IBM said:

Charles your Sports reporting for the BBC is ok but I hope they never ask you to report on anything to do with politics

Given that your lot's paranoia that it wasn't the shortcomings of their own case but the bias of the BBC that lost them the Referendum remains alive and well, you seem to have missed the opportunity of a better one liner than you have there!