Season 16-17 and beyond

[ictfcsince94]

I'm sure the locale of the TCS doesn't help its ability to generate additional income, never mind encourage higher attendances...

dont suppose it was a ICTFC fan that won the £35mil....ah well! 

[Alex MacLeod]

8 hours ago, Renegade said:

Stuart Cosgrove was saying on Off The Ball the other week that due to McDiarmid Park's proximity to the biggest crematorium in Tayside, it's not unknown for St Johnstone to make more in a single day of holding funeral meals etc. than it is from a St Johnstone home game!

Fortnight waiting list for lunch at McD. They have one of the best lotteries in the land and as CaleyD says their conferencing and astroturf facilities are booked solid.

[bdu98196]

10 hours ago, 12th Man said:

Stevie May and Michael O halloran.

Not sure what the point being made is? These are 2 players St J developed and sold. One went to the 2nd biggest club in Scotland with the 2nd biggest budget although in a lower league, much like Ryan Christie going to the biggest, the other went to an English Championship side like A.Shinnie, B.McKay (who we got a transfer fee for), Watkins did from us. Stevie Mays wages are so high that nobody in the SPFL could afford to take him back on loan last year.

Players leave St J, ICT, D Utd and the others every season, but any club is lucky if 1 out of 10 commands a transfer fee - yes, it would be great if we sold Ryan for a higher fee and got money for the Shinnie's, Ross etc, but then how many other clubs all say the same about their talent. Buying clubs can look at what's on offer and if for example Adam Rooney is valued by Aberdeen at £1M, but Billy McKay is only £100k then they may see better value, prospect and opportunity with the cheaper deal - a club like ICT have to avoid pricing themselves out of the market when selling a player and ending up with them leaving for nothing - afterall if the player wants away they just run down the contract, nobody can force them to sign if they don't want, just the same as during the contract we cant sell them unless someone wants to buy them.

Maybe this needs to be put into perspective - SPFL players (like ours) can leave for the English lower leagues where the clubs down there can afford the gamble of salaries many times our first team players for a reserve or prospect. Put really simply we have 29p so can buy a tin of Lidl beans in the hope they taste good, of we are lucky we may get some Tesco beans reduced on an offer, but we will never be able to afford Heinz and certainly not high end Harrods (unless out of date and past their best) - unless of course we decide to do without bread - only giving half a meal?

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

2016-2017 and beyond ? Probably more of the same - the best feckin roller coaster ride in the world. You simply have to take the ups with the downs. CaleytillIdie 

[Robert]

On 11 April 2016 at 10:19 PM, CaleyD said:

St Johnstone have a healthy income from other stadium facilities such as conferencing, restaurant and astro pitch which all help subsidise the football. Fortunate to have had many of these facilities provided for them when they moved ground.

To be in a position to emulate them would require significant capital expenditure  (millions) and we don't have that just now.

Heard on radio recently that they make more in a day from funeral teas than they do from away fans. Do we need a crematorium next to the stadium? Lol.

[Robert]

On 11 April 2016 at 10:21 PM, Renegade said:

Stuart Cosgrove was saying on Off The Ball the other week that due to McDiarmid Park's proximity to the biggest crematorium in Tayside, it's not unknown for St Johnstone to make more in a single day of holding funeral meals etc. than it is from a St Johnstone home game!

Sorry Renegade, posted before I saw yours!

Edited April 12, 2016 by Robert

[fursoboysh]

 

On 4/11/2016 at 8:44 PM, ictfcsince94 said:

squad size is relative to the budget of the club, looked worse than it is this year due to the amount of injuries all at the same time

 

That was my point, that the injuries this season have exposed an issue that has maybe always been there but in the last few seasons we have been pretty lucky with injuries and so have got away with it. I'm not suggesting we should be spending more cash we don't have but just pointing out that this season in particular the difficulties with remaining competitive in the league have become obvious and to me that is worrying. You want the team you've supported your whole life to be the best that it can be, there is scope for improvement and it's not all about investment in the football playing squads and the product you see on a Saturday afternoon. 

[12th Man]

On 11/04/2016 at 10:19 PM, CaleyD said:

St Johnstone have a healthy income from other stadium facilities such as conferencing, restaurant and astro pitch which all help subsidise the football. Fortunate to have had many of these facilities provided for them when they moved ground.

To be in a position to emulate them would require significant capital expenditure  (millions) and we don't have that just now.

They may not be as fortunate as you think.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/st-johnstone-plan-legal-action-6213541#DgYBslRGkWJoLLB5.97

It looks like the council have done a U-turn regarding removing their North Stand and now want the training ground.

Have to agree though that they do seem to have good business acumen.

I wonder how much additional revenue we bring in regarding our facilities but you also need the extra staff to cater for it. 

http://www.saintsbusinessclub.co.uk

 

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

[finmack]

I do not believe we have a good scouting system since Steve Marsella followed Butcher to greater things! What a fool! Anyone remember the days of Bobby Calder at Aberdeen, he spotted a promising youngster and went along to see his parents with a bag of sweets and signed the youngster  to come to Aberdeen instead of Celtic & Rangers. Currently we are picking up " has beens " who have crossed the path of our current manager in a former life. Again I have to ask why Russell Latapy put himself on the dole, and J. H's pal Brian Rice walked in to be his replacement. Finally are the board doing enough to attract new investors ?

[Renegade]

As has been mentioned quite a few times, the whole scouting network stuff was rather overstated.  From what I've been told in the past, Marsella was a good judge of talent (so much so that Butcher was sign players simply on his recommendation), but it was a bit over-romanticised.  The way some were going on about it, it was being made to sound like he was going to random games in public parks down south and finding these 'gems' and bringing them back.  It wasn't quite like that.

Something I always wondered during his time at the club about Marsella was for a guy who was seemingly always away watching players in lower league English football, he didn't seem to miss many ICT games! 

[Scotty]

apparently, a big part of Marsella's 'talent' was also his extensive contact list ...... 

[tm4tj]

On ‎11‎/‎04‎/‎2016 at 10:33 PM, ictfcsince94 said:

I'm sure the locale of the TCS doesn't help its ability to generate additional income, never mind encourage higher attendances...

dont suppose it was a ICTFC fan that won the £35mil....ah well! 

There seems to be plenty of vehicles in the car park on a daily basis, presumably companies using the rooms for conferences/meetings etc.

Either that or all our midfielders turning up for training on the same day.

[+jagster]

9 hours ago, tm4tj said:

Either that or all our midfielders turning up for training on the same day.

Made me chuckle 

[Scarlet Pimple]

 

I agree with IHE's summing up of the young man's first post--you put a lot of work into this excellent effort and this is appreciated.

Just for the record,  Stevie May runs only on his front toes so I wouldn't offer him a full wage until he lands on all his toes. Like "coming down to earth" so Stevie May focus, like? Then he can give us the full Monty. That's fair, what? Meantime we could go after Gardyne of Ross County  who can wriggle and roll with the best and  can make a mean pass to boot.

As for the beans issue, are you aware that Heinz has now devalued their beans by half-filling the can with colored water--my wife knows food alright and she attests to this duplicitous crime. The Pimpernell organisation has been on the case for  half a year and the results are now in. They still haven't learnt that doing this puts clients off the product and thus Heinz has now  put hundreds of Canadian workers out of a job by closing their very large plant in Scotty's eastern territory in Canada --only a hop, skip and a jump from my place in the West, i.e. about 2000 miles away. There was no pension for the fallen,  and no prospects of another immediate job being offered. Sign of the business times, eh? So, why would you buy a loser's beans? I don't because I've already bean there, done that and  instead I buy the "No Name" brand which we all know, though, is sold by the already horribly wealthy Canadian owners of large Superstores ,like the fabled Jimmy Pattison whom IBM would love to learn about since Jimmy made his original fortune selling cars. Now he hob nobs with the Queen . But at least  we get a full tin and a rather naughty taste  which heats up the blood and even might be described as rather saucy. I could go on  but I fear the wrath of the beaks so it's goodnight from me and it's goodnight from him --er, was that Ronnie Corbett perhaps?

[wynthank15]

Since having Dennis and Steve up front for a good number of years which was a 442 we have had to scramble around with players who had no options or found themselves in difficult circumstances or were over the hill or injury prone eg Brewster (great player on his last legs but could still do it for 30mins) Dargo (injury prone usually missed at least half a season) Storey (so far out of the picture he didn't have a squad number at a club with money problems) these are the only type of opportunities we are likely to be offered, players with nowhere to go who are trying to resurrect their careers, and many have. We do not have the money to enter the market and should we uncover a guy from the lower leagues who scored 20 goals in a season you can be sure he would be gone for nothing at the end of the season.Short of a sugar daddy financing the club ( Ross County/Dundee Utd/Dundee) this will always be the nature of things.

I am concerned for next season and posted previously that I would have broken the bank to keep Marley Watkins whom I believe would have got better and had pace which is a plus in a striker, of course, I don't know what kind of deal he moved for but the fact is, those who put the ball in the net are worth several times what those keeping the ball out at the other end are worth, given the number of midfielders we pay I am surprised we couldn't afford to pay him a good wage, perhaps he didn't want to stay, whilst we may like Inverness it is hardly the bright lights and before anyone says so neither is Bradford.

From my perspective, the way forward for ICT is to build a rock solid defence, a robust and competitive midfield and a hit or miss striker from wherever.

We haven't seen a creative midfielder like young Christie since his father and Sheerin played for ICT, think about that.

As I've said previously I think there are a number of clubs who may end up going part time within the next five years and we are one of them if we are relegated. Kilmarnock who have 1,000 average support more than us have posted a £750,000 loss, that is unsustainable. Many other full time clubs are in a similar position. I don't see the predicament that Scottish Football finds itself in improving, we are amongst the poor relations of Europe and until the SFA puts in place a scheme akin to the Icelandic model we will continue to decline. Sorry for the depressing post.

[PerfICT]

Killie's average crowd this season is 3857 against ours of 3751, so roughly 100 more per game - and yet they still managed to post a big deficit - even less sustainable than wynthank15 suggests. Assuming that the income between the two clubs is of the same order, Killie's expenditure must be substantially higher than ours. The bottom line is that Killie and several other clubs have been spending beyond their means in an effort to attract and retain players that they can't actually afford. Tempting as this is, it will only end in one place at the end of the day and I have no sympathy for them: after all, we are competing with these clubs for the services of players, but in an effort to balance the books, we are unable to match the wages offered elsewhere.

Personally, I think the tough line from the board with respect to budget is exactly the right one. Yes, we may struggle to attract and retain players in a climate whereby most clubs are either richer on account of bigger crowds or sugar daddies (and that can go wrong too - ask Hearts or Gretna!), or are willing to overspend (Killie, The Rangers again), but financial oblivion is a much worse option and I'd prefer our club to still be here in 10 years time than not!

 

[Guest]

14 hours ago, wynthank15 said:

Since having Dennis and Steve up front for a good number of years which was a 442 we have had to scramble around with players who had no options or found themselves in difficult circumstances or were over the hill or injury prone eg Brewster (great player on his last legs but could still do it for 30mins) Dargo (injury prone usually missed at least half a season) Storey (so far out of the picture he didn't have a squad number at a club with money problems) these are the only type of opportunities we are likely to be offered, players with nowhere to go who are trying to resurrect their careers, and many have. We do not have the money to enter the market and should we uncover a guy from the lower leagues who scored 20 goals in a season you can be sure he would be gone for nothing at the end of the season.Short of a sugar daddy financing the club ( Ross County/Dundee Utd/Dundee) this will always be the nature of things.

I am concerned for next season and posted previously that I would have broken the bank to keep Marley Watkins whom I believe would have got better and had pace which is a plus in a striker, of course, I don't know what kind of deal he moved for but the fact is, those who put the ball in the net are worth several times what those keeping the ball out at the other end are worth, given the number of midfielders we pay I am surprised we couldn't afford to pay him a good wage, perhaps he didn't want to stay, whilst we may like Inverness it is hardly the bright lights and before anyone says so neither is Bradford.

From my perspective, the way forward for ICT is to build a rock solid defence, a robust and competitive midfield and a hit or miss striker from wherever.

We haven't seen a creative midfielder like young Christie since his father and Sheerin played for ICT, think about that.

As I've said previously I think there are a number of clubs who may end up going part time within the next five years and we are one of them if we are relegated. Kilmarnock who have 1,000 average support more than us have posted a £750,000 loss, that is unsustainable. Many other full time clubs are in a similar position. I don't see the predicament that Scottish Football finds itself in improving, we are amongst the poor relations of Europe and until the SFA puts in place a scheme akin to the Icelandic model we will continue to decline. Sorry for the depressing post.

Marley  went to Barnsley 

[dougiedanger]

Beans?