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forresjags

Boden & Fisher

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As we continue to toil and struggle to get among the goals , 2 players seem to be continually overlooked Boden and Fisher

Foran continues to use all his squad as he continues to try to find a winning side but these 2 never start.

King is in ,then out ,Cole & Polworth the same. Surely with only 1 win in 18 they both must be worthy of a chance because at the moment everything else is failing miserably as we career towards relegation.

 

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Boden is here long term so hopefully fulfills his early promise.

Fisher seems out of favour amid rumours of a fall out.

Ebbe came on today and had one attempt off target but not seen enough of him to judge him.

When we debated Doumbouya or Fisher earlier in the season, I was on Fisher's side as I liked his work rate.

Mckay and Fisher may be worth a punt, but doubt it will happen.

 

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Foran  seems fixated on starting Anier no matter what, but why?. Is he a huge improvement over Fisher & Boden, in my honest opinion I don't think so. Some people say Anier was a panic signing!. Maybe Foran feels he must persevere as he signed Henri?. 

Boden looked decent when he came on against Partick last week as a sub & the team looked better for it.

Both players played in the development league mid week, both fit & Boden with a goal.

Agree with Robert, would love to see a McKay/Fisher partnership. Keep hearing rumours about a fall out with Richie and Fisher as well. Disappointed if true as an personal fall out should take a back seat.

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Every time I have seen Fisher he has worked far harder than the like of Doumbaya when he was here, and looked promising. It is a mystery why he is not given a chance of a prolonged run. Same with King. Richie's haphazard selections don't inspire confidence in me, and the players must feel similarly confused, especially when, having been given a chance, they do well. 

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Fisher works hard but I'm not sure he's got the quality.

Boden looks like a complete bust, as does Anier.

If we stay up then signing Billy Mckay will be the biggest reason. He is miles above anything else we have up front.

 

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I agree, however Mackay needs some support and Fisher certainly has the energy and pace to make a good partnership, wot is there to loose at this stage of the game. We need to try something to increase the chance of the ball getting into the back of the net! 

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Boden looked alright when he came on last week, but by and large he's looked terrible.  Against Elgin he made Vigurs look hardworking!  Fisher though is another matter.  He's always impressed me.  Strong, powerful, fairly fast for his size and very hard working, he's exactly the type of guy you want in there next to Mckay.  Yet he hasn't played since Hogmanay and sometimes doesn't even make the bench, as well as being seemingly further down in the pecking order than the aforementioned, usually rubbish Scott Boden and Sunday League superstar Dean Ebbe.  There were rumours a while back that there'd been a fallout behind the scenes and alas it looks as though this is true.

At times like this, we need players like him in the side and the manager should be the bigger man and let bygones be bygones.  His decision not to include Fisher could have huge consequences come May.  We were partly relegated in 2009 by Butcher's ego.  Let's hope we aren't sent down by Foran's.

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Posted (edited)

        REMEMBER THE 18TH SEP

                       THE 89 MIN

 

IMG_20170320_215004_137.JPG.8a4b983403ac2613f567ba51628c1d55.JPG

 

              HAPPY DAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Edited by CaleyMax
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29 minutes ago, CaleyMax said:

        REMEMBER THE 18TH SEP

                       THE 89 MIN

 

IMG_20170320_215004_137.JPG.8a4b983403ac2613f567ba51628c1d55.JPG

 

              HAPPY DAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Remember it well, on an Open Top bus in New York and couldn't believe it when I checked the score!

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Unless i was to go to training and watch each striker in every session, i feel ill informed to comment.

I thought anier improved as the game went on and started to link up a bit better with Mckay. I would expect him to start again against Killie if we play 3_5_2.

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On 20/03/2017 at 0:44 AM, Renegade said:

 We were partly relegated in 2009 by Butcher's ego.  Let's hope we aren't sent down by Foran's.

I'll get in before Bannerman does. We weren't partly relegated :whistle:

Good work in Nutmeg btw :clapoverhead:

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Something has to change, not losing and gaining a point every game is good but will probably not get us out of the bottom 2.

We need to take the initiative and go and try and win the game. Playing 5 defenders  along the back, does not inspire, Tremarco and Raven are decent  fullbacks but are being asked to do a really difficult job by playing as wing backs. 

Revert back to a tried and trusted 4-4-2 with at least one  natural wide player and a centre forward that can support Billy Mckay, who by the way looks a wee bit fecked off with all these aimless punts he is being asked to chase down.

We need to try and create and not just hope something might happen. 

      

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I see your point. I think going forward we would be more threatening, however, which centre midfielder drops out? Draper seems to be playing on top of the defence and looks pretty knackered unable to push up the park, perhaps he is just following instructions. Does he drop out? He is playing well in my opinion. Surely with only two in midfield we need mobility? So i guess could only mean polwarth and tansey. Vigurs isnt mobile enough. Natural wingers struggle with the defensive side of things, so in a 4 man midfield you really leave your full back exposed. In essence every formation has its postives and negatives. I prefer richie approach which is build from a solid base. Barring the recent celtic game, our defence has gone from losing 2 goals a game on average down to 1 goal a game. That makes a massive difference when you are trying to pick up points.

I think as the players get used to the 3-5-2 we can only improve, if raven and tremarco can push forward, if tansey and polwarth can hold possesion long enough or our wing backs to join the attack, we will see us pinning teams back, a bit like the county game for the first 20 mins of the 2nd half. Well, hopefully!

Quote

 

 

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I think the problem is we are asking 2 fullbacks to become wing backs. Good defenders, but going forward and taking players on maybe not so.

Maybe would work better with King and Mulraney but even then you would expose the 3 at the back more. Who knows ?   

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Tremarco and Raven two quality, experienced players who have the guile and wisdom to create something on the wings yet are still capable of subduing any attack out wide.

Would be good to pass the ball about a bit more though when we are winning.

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9 hours ago, forresjags said:

I think the problem is we are asking 2 fullbacks to become wing backs. Good defenders, but going forward and taking players on maybe not so.

Maybe would work better with King and Mulraney but even then you would expose the 3 at the back more. Who knows ?   

There's a massive hole in your argument.....one of those guys is the club's leading goal scorer!!!

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What massive hole are you on about ? I suggested that going forward they do not offer the same creativity as maybe Mulraney or King would. You decided that because Tremarco has scored maybe 5 or 6 goals (many of which I hasten to add have come from set pieces) he and David Raven are the answer to solving our dire lack of width when attacking.

Is Tansey not our leading goal scorer ?

 

 

 

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38 minutes ago, forresjags said:

What massive hole are you on about ? I suggested that going forward they do not offer the same creativity as maybe Mulraney or King would. You decided that because Tremarco has scored maybe 5 or 6 goals (many of which I hasten to add have come from set pieces) he and David Raven are the answer to solving our dire lack of width when attacking.

Is Tansey not our leading goal scorer ?

Carl is leading with 7 goals.

Given that he and David ar hugging the touchline for much of the match, then they are definitely offering width.

David's assist figures during his time at the club show that he's creating (there's your creativity) and whether Carl is fashioning goals from open play or set pieces (and it's about 50/50 from memory) then :shrug:

You might want to see us playing out and out wingers....which is fine, there's an argument to be made for that (or any other) tactic.  What's not up for argument, as the facts disprove it, is whether or not...Carl and David offer width & creativity because they clearly do.

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Obviously not enough creativity to win matches or we wouldn't be languishing at the bottom having won only 4 matches all season, Setting up with 5 defenders at home  imo is not taking the initiative to try and win a game of football and put together a run of winning results.  

You seem to imply that you are  happy with the way things are progressing and the tactics and formation are bang on, which you are perfectly entitled to do. Me I am not so sure.  

 

 

 

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I'm happy that the manager has found a way to stop us shipping 2 or 3 goals a game and that we've turned narrow defeats into draws....that's progress.

Of course we now need to start adding some wins to the equation, but we can't afford to go backwards (results wise) whilst chasing that.....it's not quite time to be throwing all caution to the wind (IMO) or we could really end up in an inescapable situation.

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31 minutes ago, CaleyD said:

I'm happy that the manager has found a way to stop us shipping 2 or 3 goals a game and that we've turned narrow defeats into draws....that's progress.

Of course we now need to start adding some wins to the equation, but we can't afford to go backwards (results wise) whilst chasing that.....it's not quite time to be throwing all caution to the wind (IMO) or we could really end up in an inescapable situation.

It has got beyond we can't afford to go backwards results wise to the point where we can't afford not to go forwards and quickly.

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We're 3 points from safety and performances/results are improving.....others in the mix have diminishing performances.

9 games to go....more than half of them against teams also in the mix.

We need to keep our cool and not do anything rash.....including any wholesale changes to our approach to the game.

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The back five in theory is fine.  We both know Raven and Tremarco are good going forward so it makes sense to have them as wing backs.  I wouldn't be adverse to seeing this tried again.  It could also be argued that the issue wasn't at the back but due to Anier and Mckay being too similar to form an effective partnership, while we also lack an energetic Ryan Christie-style player in the midfield three.  In a match say against the likes of Celtic or Aberdeen, this system might be worth trying again with a few modifications.

Saturday though in hindsight was perhaps a mistake.  Ross County's form has been poor of late while they've also been playing Boyce as a central midfielder/number 10.  Perhaps using more of a back three as opposed to back five would've been more effective in taking the game to them.  Tremarco as the slightly more defensive minded left wing back on the left, with a more attacking wide player on the right, say Larnell Cole or Doran had he been fit would have wielded a better result.

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Having witnessed an excellent performance at Tynecastle we have not pushed on.

At Tynecastle we hade a new central back pairing and Polworth & Cole played with great energy (along with the rest of the team) who pressed Hearts for 90 mins to get a good result. Anier came on and spent most of his time offside or losing the ball and was no better against Ross County.

Richie has bottled dropping a centre back, personally I think Laing is first choice so who should be dropped Warren or McCart?

Against County we had NO pace (King!!!) in the team and I don't think 5 at the back made a difference as Tremarco and Raven get forward anyway. A back four with a 'switched on' sitting midfielder (Draper) would allow Tremarco / Raven to go forward knowing that Draper can drop back to make a four.

We need to score goals and 4-4-2 is more likely to succeed as even playing a 5-3-2 doesn't result in a clean sheet!

Anier is a waste of time, Fisher is the perfect partner for Mackay, he would press the opposition with Mackay and between them I think they would create far more chances.

And what does anyone see in Vigurs, he doesn't press or track back and loves to point the finger at everyone else. I was delighted when he got injured as it forced Ritchie into taking him off. If only Ritchie had made another substitution when we were under pressure!

I hope Ritchie doesn't make the same mistake as Butcher and get us relegated due to a personal fall out with Fisher as Ritchie will be the loser if  we go down. whilst Fisher will move on to pastures new!

 

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Posted (edited)

 

7 hours ago, dave26 said:

Having witnessed an excellent performance at Tynecastle we have not pushed on.

At Tynecastle we hade a new central back pairing and Polworth & Cole played with great energy (along with the rest of the team) who pressed Hearts for 90 mins to get a good result. Anier came on and spent most of his time offside or losing the ball and was no better against Ross County.

Richie has bottled dropping a centre back, personally I think Laing is first choice so who should be dropped Warren or McCart?

Against County we had NO pace (King!!!) in the team and I don't think 5 at the back made a difference as Tremarco and Raven get forward anyway. A back four with a 'switched on' sitting midfielder (Draper) would allow Tremarco / Raven to go forward knowing that Draper can drop back to make a four.

We need to score goals and 4-4-2 is more likely to succeed as even playing a 5-3-2 doesn't result in a clean sheet!

Anier is a waste of time, Fisher is the perfect partner for Mackay, he would press the opposition with Mackay and between them I think they would create far more chances.

And what does anyone see in Vigurs, he doesn't press or track back and loves to point the finger at everyone else. I was delighted when he got injured as it forced Ritchie into taking him off. If only Ritchie had made another substitution when we were under pressure!

I hope Ritchie doesn't make the same mistake as Butcher and get us relegated due to a personal fall out with Fisher as Ritchie will be the loser if  we go down. whilst Fisher will move on to pastures new!

 

Agree with dave26's post 100%

Reminds me off a new manager I had at work who bought a new piece of machinery even though there was nothing wrong with our old one. Anyway after a while we figured out it was a step backwards & asked our manager for the previous one. His answer was to PERSEVERE, and that was his final answer!.

Eventually after nine months our manager admitted the new one wasn't working. But why so long?. I believe the reason was he did not want to lose face & he wanted to stamp down his authority.

So with that in mind Anier is not working, Get Fisher on the pitch, and time is not a luxury we have!

Edited by CaleyMax
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