Caman

Foran - Should he stay or should he go?

133 posts in this topic

Interesting that they have made a bold, or desperate, decision while we sit on our hands.

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Well, it won't be too many weeks until we find out which decision was the prudent one.

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Both going down...clutching at straws ?

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1 hour ago, RiG said:

As expected Hartley has been punted.

http://dundeefc.co.uk/news/club-statement-paul-hartley/

Dundee have rolled the dice in a bid to stay up whereas we look content to fall away into the Championship.

Yup, Dundee have played their joker, while we still have ours. Ach, maybe it is just less painful to accept fate instead of trying to change it. It's the hope that kills you, so just as well we've none of that.:cry:

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On 4/16/2017 at 7:34 AM, Caman said:

Foran will not resign. I have heard he is building a (huge) new house. Obviously he'll need money for that and will therefore remain until he gets his pay off. 

I really hope this isn't true and if it is concluded that he's not fit for purpose that he walks away without further (financial) damage to a club that cannot afford it. The club has suffered enough from mercenary managers.

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I think the 3 year player deal to Foran was intended to be transferred into a coaching position. It probably came sooner than intended with Yogi's antics. I'm sure financially the 4 year deal was essentially the equivalent of his 2 year playing deal. The whole point was to give the club sustainability and a medium term plan with the club trusting Foran. I don't blame the club for this idea but it does seem we have backed the wrong horse. Two options remain, we ditch the plan and turn to someone else on a short contract or continue with the plan however painful it may be in the short-term that with time and more experience beside him, someone he chooses, that Foran will succeed and return us to the top flight.

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You would need some evidence to make the case for foran. Sadly, it is completely lacking at the moment. What price on him going after we have a poor start to life in div one, around November? How long do we wait?

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1 hour ago, PerfICT said:

Yup, Dundee have played their joker, while we still have ours. Ach, maybe it is just less painful to accept fate instead of trying to change it. It's the hope that kills you, so just as well we've none of that.:cry:

:cry: I've had hope 15 minutes before kick off  every game for the last 3 months..

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A statement from the club either way would be welcome. At least we would have an idea of what the thinking is. 

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17 minutes ago, TopSix said:

A statement from the club either way would be welcome. At least we would have an idea of what the thinking is. 

Don't hold yer breath Rory, just practice your darts..

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1 hour ago, PerfICT said:

It's the hope that kills you, so just as well we've none of that.

Every week, after our result, I think "well that's it", and yet when I look at the table I think I can see a way out. I wish the inevitable would come quickly now. 

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25 minutes ago, HawkeyeTheGnu said:

Every week, after our result, I think "well that's it", and yet when I look at the table I think I can see a way out. I wish the inevitable would come quickly now. 

Yup, I am the same. Been feeling pretty miserable every Saturday night after the games. Then by the following Saturday morning I'm full of hope!

Even for County, I have hope that this is the game where the season turns. Although deep down, I know we are gone.

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Posted (edited)

34 minutes ago, HawkeyeTheGnu said:

Every week, after our result, I think "well that's it", and yet when I look at the table I think I can see a way out. I wish the inevitable would come quickly now. 

As the weeks and results have gone by, the probability of survival and number of means of achieving it have continued to reduce as defeat has followed draw. The significance of Saturday was that it saw the disappearance of the last route which was still in Caley Thistle's hands. Overhauling Hamilton and/or Motherwell by simply by beating them is no longer an option. Now such theoretical chance of staying up as remains has reduced to a single route with favours required on the way. In other words, to return to a familiar theme from 2010, Dundee have to bottle it - or at least to continue to do so. On that subject, just as they got rid of Jocky Scott, they have now sacked Hartley but that's just an observation as opposed to an expected cause and effect..

The only realistic prospect, and it's now a pretty remote one, is for ICT to win at Dens and in addition to pick up three more points than Dundee do in the other four games to leapfrog them into the playoffs. And of course it would be far from done and dusted even then. Ironically, this hands Ross County a very influential role since they have to play both Dundee and ICT once.

Please don't take this as an expression of faith or expectation. Look on it more like the way you fill in your lottery numbers in awful realisation of the number of permutations which would miss the jackpot compared with the single one that would win it.

Edited by Charles Bannerman
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Not quite sure what happened at Dundee. Hartley did well at first and should really have the players to avoid danger.

 

Same as Richie, I suppose, apart from the doing well at first bit.

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A few months ago Hartley was the pin-up boy in our football scene having had considerable success elsewhere. So what happened ? He was is a bit of a rough diamond though and his appearance is/has not been exactly managerial......a bit scruffy, like, and he definitely needs a haircut? Maybe his attitude was  that of being "one of the boys" rather than the manager?  Then he was in our frame to be hired so what happened?. If nothing else I think it shows the unpredictability of  lauding a former player who really does not have much experience in Management. So, when the dirt starts to hit the fan, do emotions  take over instead of deep thinking and caution? Hasn't Hartley nearly had a bust up with a player or players as well? There's something in my mind about that but I can't quite remember?  Hartley in for us ?--- My opinion is ... No !!

Who now thinks that approaching John Hughes again would be a good move?  I was upset at the awful way in which J Hughes  left and the amount of money he seemed to be able to get out of our club. But what if the Board decided that a rapprochement is required ("needs must when the Devil drives") and offers him a deal in which they get him on board and agree to a salary that recoups the financial outlays that they had to cough up when he left. Am I mad? Looks like  it, eh?  But,.consider this......

a. Everybody makes mistakes and everybody deserves a second chance? Right? And he is not stupid so perhaps a chastened man has learned a lesson and humility can take over?

b. This man is not in a position of negotiating strength because he is still in football, which he says he still  loves to death, but his position is, well, lowly in the general scheme of things and he must now fully realise that his services are  NOT in great demand elsewhere.

c.  Really, are we in a better position? Anything but !.-- So brutal honesty and frankness could sink in deep with both parties, leading to a greater understanding  between them and a  more considered approach to each other from both?  In short, a  better working relationship based on a much higher plane of thought and reflection by both him and the Board of ICT on the rights and needs of both parties. i.e. a greater willingness to compromise and, for sure, if J.H wants to come on board he would have to do this. OR he can stay where he is in obscurity. If a very frank and honest talk took place between the Board and Mr. Hughes, during which it was stressed that complete openness, honesty and realism  must be the order of the day at all times from now on, then who knows what can be achieved?

d. What about his contract at the club he is at now? Well, that could be  stumbling block...unless he is willing to dig into own pocket to help the transfer process along?:ictscarf:

 

  

 

 

 

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It really hurts to come to this conclusion but I think the Board must be radical and gamble by removing Foran now.  It is obvious to one an all that our results are not going to improve under the present set-up and maybe just maybe a change could give the spark to inspire some results to get near 11th place.  If they don't gamble now then nothing is going change and we go down without giving any of the teams above a fight.

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3 hours ago, caley100 said:

:cry: I've had hope 15 minutes before kick off  every game for the last 3 months..

I admire your staying power, caley100. I too have hope before every game, but it goes up in smoke as soon as I see the team sheet. :cry:

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I've just noticed that of the 4 teams we have beaten this season, 3 have subsequently dispensed with their managers!

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2 hours ago, Yngwie said:

I've just noticed that of the 4 teams we have beaten this season, 3 have subsequently dispensed with their managers!

Yet we have beaten ourselves many times this season and the manager remains.

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Neil McCann Dundee boss until end of season. 

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Scarlett, I would have JH back in a heartbeat, he is the one who should have been offered a 4 year deal. He created a style that the club could have used as a template for future iCT teams, build up the play from the back, give the midfield time to support the strikers and ensure that all of the opposition players had to defend thereby preventing any quick breaks against our defence. Due to this system of play we were able to get results when we had players missing simply because we denied them the ball for long periods.The performance against Astra who were a quality team was excellent and very controlled despite us having lost our two best players to transfers, we basically lost the game to a goalkeeping error OFW's first of many. The current team has no playing philosophy or structure, all the good work by JH has been thrown overboard, we are almost certainly going down I just hope it is not the board's intention to leave RF in place or we may find ourselves in Div 1 before long, it's all very sad and in my opinion was avoidable, the board's hubris has come back to haunt them, they should be forced to watch the cringe inducing interview they aired at the start of the season when RF waxed lyrical about how great things were going to be for ICT in front of a smug Kenny Cameron, how the mighty are fallen,does anyone, anyone? really think we would be relegated with this squad if JH were in charge of it? not a chance. 

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As above, I'd certainly have JH back, not that it's going to happen. Our squad is more than capable of doing well in the Premiership under the right management. I actually think on paper Foran hasn't done a bad job of recruitment. King, Billy and Brad McKay, Laing, Cole and Mulraney are all SPL standard players IMO, but the system, or lack there of, doesn't work. We lacked pace out wide last season and Foran brought players in who have the ability to take on and beat players. It would have been interesting to see how JH would have gotten on with this squad.  

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On 16/04/2017 at 9:00 AM, Yngwie said:

I wonder if emotion and guilt have played a part in the board's loyalty to a Foran, knowing that he and his family have committed to Inverness and that if he got sacked now with such an abysmal record in management his next job in football would be in the Highland League.

Showed plenty loyalty when he picked up a wage for 3 years and hardly kicked a ball fcuk him sack him hes a nugget

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10 minutes ago, lightwelter said:

As above, I'd certainly have JH back, not that it's going to happen. Our squad is more than capable of doing well in the Premiership under the right management. I actually think on paper Foran hasn't done a bad job of recruitment. King, Billy and Brad McKay, Laing, Cole and Mulraney are all SPL standard players IMO, but the system, or lack there of, doesn't work. We lacked pace out wide last season and Foran brought players in who have the ability to take on and beat players. It would have been interesting to see how JH would have gotten on with this squad.  

Let go aa few good uns to tho what happened to Roberts and Mutombo both were way better than Cole and Mulraney but ye i agree he has brought in decent players if only he could get them playing they remind me of my days playing school and welfare kick and rush tactics

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I am astonished that anyone is contemplating having John Hughes back as a manager. His signings were even poorer than Foran's and our style of play had become so predictable that teams soon sussed out how to play against us and we had no plan B. Would we have changed our style this season under John Hughes and been more exciting to watch, would he have signed better players than previously, the evidence suggests otherwise. There are in fact many similarities between JH and RF's style of management in that they are both stubborn and will not change their approach even when everyone can see that change is needed. Is that the one bit of experience RF picked up from JH?

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