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Moogthurso

The Ian Vigurs enigma

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Think this has been a really positive discussion and loved all the people who supplied data and personal insights. 

Agree with caley girl that it is far too easy for any of us to become keyboard warriors and be negative with little foundation.

It is interesting how much harder and much  more data was required to be positive and supportive. Some  great insights here and when u look at the facts and the very good evaluations from everyone I now feel much more informed and balanced. 

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Interesting thread.  I agree it is frustrating that he does not always deliver a performance in line with his ability but it's good to see so many people acknowledging his overall positive contribution to the side.  I was also heartened to see him get such a good reception from the crowd when he was substituted on Saturday after a commanding performance.  Clearly the bulk of the fans appreciate him but I guess there will always be a small minority who will always find fault with him no matter how well he plays.

But just to pick up on the disciplinary record.  His record for yellow cards is not much different from Warren and Draper but he seems to avoid the red cards.  All 3 are combative players and this is probably more a reflection of that rather than ill discipline as such.  If one or two of his cards are for needless petulance or retaliation then he is certainly not alone in that and his lack of red cards might indicate an ability to keep his cool in situations where the red mist may descend on others.

If Robbo can get the best out of him, then Iain will be a huge player for us this season.

 

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I have now flicked on to this thread on several occasions since it was started, and every time, just for a split second, I misread the title as "The Iain Vigurs Enema"!

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Iain Vigurs is like marmite, you either like it or loathe it. I get the feeling that he is one of these players that needs the manager to put his arm round his shoulder and tell him he is a good player.  Last season he was played in a variety of positions and coupled with the management style of RF I can understand his inconsistent performances.  This year we have JR and his style of man management coupled with playing him in his best position will get us seeing better performances more often than last season.  Tonight against Stirling Albion he was very influential throughout the game and was one of our top players.  Please lay off the guy and I am sure he will be a key player this season

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On 17/07/2017 at 1:35 PM, ictchris said:

Vigurs got two assists last season, both in the last three games, both straight passes from central midfield to Alex Fisher.  Maybe if he has good targets he can be more productive in terms of attacking this season

Are there any stats on key passes, as in passes that indirectly start a move that leads to a goal or chance. Assists can sometimes only be as good as the person finishing.

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9 hours ago, DoofersDad said:

Interesting thread.  I agree it is frustrating that he does not always deliver a performance in line with his ability but it's good to see so many people acknowledging his overall positive contribution to the side.  I was also heartened to see him get such a good reception from the crowd when he was substituted on Saturday after a commanding performance.  Clearly the bulk of the fans appreciate him but I guess there will always be a small minority who will always find fault with him no matter how well he plays.

I wonder. Would opinions be so polarised if he had not been at County ..... :ponder:

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7 hours ago, Fraser54 said:

 Tonight against Stirling Albion he was very influential throughout the game and was one of our top players.  Please lay off the guy and I am sure he will be a key player this season

Yeah along with Seedorf he was probably the only player to try threading a pass instead of just punting the ball in.

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He was good last night.  After this thread I tried to watch him quite closely and what was interesting was how many of his passes were forward - he doesn't just play sideways and try and recycle the ball, he's always looking to find someone up the pitch.  We played a 4-4-2 and he dropped back a few times to take the ball from the central defenders and play out with it and if you have someone doing that who is positive with the ball then it helps the team get forward.  

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7 hours ago, Council Juice said:

Are there any stats on key passes, as in passes that indirectly start a move that leads to a goal or chance. Assists can sometimes only be as good as the person finishing.

Morning,

From the stats chris produced the two important ones were passes in final third where he was in the top ten in the league last year with 11 per match and forward passes where he again led our stats. 

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9 hours ago, Fraser54 said:

Iain Vigurs is like marmite, you either like it or loathe it. I get the feeling that he is one of these players that needs the manager to put his arm round his shoulder and tell him he is a good player.  Last season he was played in a variety of positions and coupled with the management style of RF I can understand his inconsistent performances.  This year we have JR and his style of man management coupled with playing him in his best position will get us seeing better performances more often than last season.  Tonight against Stirling Albion he was very influential throughout the game and was one of our top players.  Please lay off the guy and I am sure he will be a key player this season

That's kind of my impression of Vigurs as well - would put Polworth in this category as well.

Hopefully the man-management skills of Robbo will get the best out of these guys (& the rest of the team - felt that the 'people' side of RF as manager was his weakest - not that tactically he was strong either!).

I remember being at the 3-0 defeat to Accies in Jan, watching our midfield just being ran over the top off - definetly think Vigurs & Polworth, given the guidance of a good manager, are far better players than that & will be crucisl this coming season..

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Vigurs was our best player last night. Hopefully Robbo will continue to coax the best out of him!:smile:

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He's not an enigma, he's just a very naughty boy! 

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3 hours ago, PerfICT said:

Vigurs was our best player last night. Hopefully Robbo will continue to coax the best out of him!:smile:

Well that doesn't say much for the rest  :amazed:

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13 hours ago, Scotty said:

I wonder. Would opinions be so polarised if he had not been at County ..... :ponder:

Yes.  The fact he's been at County has nothing to do with it.

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It could seen as a positive that he is still with us and hasn't jumped ship now we are playing at a lower level?

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9 hours ago, jingsmonty said:

That's kind of my impression of Vigurs as well - would put Polworth in this category as well.

Hopefully the man-management skills of Robbo will get the best out of these guys (& the rest of the team - felt that the 'people' side of RF as manager was his weakest - not that tactically he was strong either!).

I remember being at the 3-0 defeat to Accies in Jan, watching our midfield just being ran over the top off - definetly think Vigurs & Polworth, given the guidance of a good manager, are far better players than that & will be crucisl this coming season..

I was at the Hamilton debacle as well and the RF man management skills were made loud and clear in his post match interview when he said

"Some of our players have not got the bottle, they showed that today. We might have been the better side in the first half and their keeper pulled off a great save from the penalty, but some of our boys are hiding and we are in for a fight now. I told them straight, 'I can see who is bottling it, I can see who does not want to take the ball'. It is not them all - I thought Billy Mckay was excellent - but it makes it a massive game for us now on Saturday against Dundee."

I would be surprised if anyone would be motivated in a positive way least of all players like Iain Vigurs and to some extent Liam Polworth. RF can only aspire to have the man management skills of someone like JR

Edited by Fraser54
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Foran should've been sacked after that Accies game, not just for the result, but for his pitchside attire of brown brogues with joggers!  Awful!

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In summary, I agree that Vigurs is not one of our players that simply punts the ball up the park. Maybe sometimes his passes are not read by his team mates and we end up losing the ball through the person being passed to not finding the space or being too slow. 

Personally, I like Vigurs and Polworth, and as also said above, I am sure JR will get the best out of them as well as, the rest of the team.

After all both of these players had fantastic games for us over the last two seasons and both scored vital goals. 

 

Edited by Caman
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I think we should leave it for a few weeks to see how robbo shapes and motivated the team.

I just felt vigurs deserved better treatment from us as he seemed to be very polarising and easily criticised. 

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48 minutes ago, Caman said:

After all both of these players had fantastic games for us over the last two seasons

Unfortunately all of Polworth's were crammed into 2015/16.

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13 hours ago, Renegade said:

Foran should've been sacked after that Accies game, not just for the result, but for his pitchside attire of brown brogues with joggers!  Awful!

Should have been sacked long before that for the beard.

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Well, Mantis, it seems he was certainly bearded in his den and catapulted into the darkness at the end of the season. I was thinking about him just the other day and trying to empathise with his situation. Which, in a sense, went downhill so fast, almost from the sublime to the ridiculous.

Can anyone throw light on what he is doing for a living now or is he concentrating on some other career path... like becoming a home builder... I wonder?

Or, as the Donald would say..."SAD!":sad:

 

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12 minutes ago, Scarlet Pimple said:

Well, Mantis, it seems he was certainly bearded in his den and catapulted into the darkness at the end of the season. I was thinking about him just the other day and trying to empathise with his situation. Which, in a sense, went downhill so fast, almost from the sublime to the ridiculous.

Can anyone throw light on what he is doing for a living now or is he concentrating on some other career path... like becoming a home builder... I wonder?

Or, as the Donald would say..."SAD!":sad:

 

Don't mean to be cheeky Scarlet Pimple, but what has Foran got to do with this thread?

Let's not talk about last season and the managerial disaster (albeit not intentional on his part) Foran was anymore please. :redcard:

Let's move forward, and hopefully upwards and onwards please. 

Edited by Caman
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Caman

I am quite sure you are not trying to be cheeky but did you notice that the thread had already "gone off topic"  before Auld Pimple woke up and seized on one of his last desperate attempts for recognition before fading away for good. The old fella is losing his memory and fully expects to lose his marbles sooner rather than later  now.  Some people already think he has lost everything  and it will happen to you too many years from now. Remember, life is short, shorty....

It's just that one thing leads to another and so...it-t-t-t-t-t-t-t's.... back on topic and I have avidly read your comments  on Mr. Vigurs. I remember him from his time at Ross County when I felt strongly that he was an aggressive, quite dynamic player who went at it full pelt in most games. I think that as his career has motored on he has dropped a wee bit of his drive and the vigor of Vigurs is not quite what it was. i.e. He's like the 79 year auld Pimple--he's reached a platform and needs a leg-up now and then.

Aye! :wave:

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