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bigman

Raven not again

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Good player and played a key role in our successful cup team but not sure he is 'legend' status. Be a shame to see a player of his experience and caliber leave but he's picked up a few injuries in his time and the more I see him recently while better than some of the jobbers we have, its clear he is loosing some of his pace and is a player on the descent unfortunately. Freeing up his wage is a positive but sadly I feel it will be wasted and we wont bring in anyone even near as good if at all. 

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A player who played a key role in our major cup win isn't a club legend? That's as good as it'll get for a long time if we aren't able to refer to those players as club legends then when can we?

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2 hours ago, Sean127 said:

A player who played a key role in our major cup win isn't a club legend? That's as good as it'll get for a long time if we aren't able to refer to those players as club legends then when can we?

When, like Ross Tokely, Grant Munro or Dennis Wyness they have represented the club for a very long number of years or, like Charlie Christie, they have played with distinction for Thistle, Caley and the merged club.

The cup winning team will be long remembered but that alone doesn't make club legend status. By your critetia, the likes of James Vincent and Edward Offere would be club legends. I don't think the status is as easily gained as that.

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On ‎25‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 4:15 PM, Kingsmills said:

It may be old news but still worth making the point that Raven has been a fine servant and would improve our defence just now. It makes no sense whatsoever to be paying him but not fully utilising him.

I agree totally - There is life in Raven yet

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Still a travesty he wasn't fit to play in the cup final. 

From what I've been told in the last few days Robbo might be binned long before January which could see Dave saved again to serve for longer. I'd like to see him and Seedorf in midfield operate on the right side. 

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8 hours ago, Kingsmills said:

When, like Ross Tokely, Grant Munro or Dennis Wyness they have represented the club for a very long number of years or, like Charlie Christie, they have played with distinction for Thistle, Caley and the merged club.

The cup winning team will be long remembered but that alone doesn't make club legend status. By your critetia, the likes of James Vincent and Edward Offere would be club legends. I don't think the status is as easily gained as that.

This I agree with.  I've noticed some fans, especially younger ones, have a very low bar for what a club legend is.  I've even seen it argued that everyone who played in the cup final is a club legend - they aren't.  In fact, is winning the Scottish Cup the club's greatest ever achievement?  I don't think it is.  While it is the most glamourous, is it *that* difficult to win?  Considering Falkirk, who could well have won that day, didn't play a top-flight team until the final, suggests that isn't.  IMO winning the league and in the manner that we did it in 2004 and 2010 was far more difficult and far more important achievement.

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I think in one hundred years time, when we might be in the bottom tier of Scottish football, and hopefully haven't become another Inverness Citadel FC, the ICT fans will most definitely look back at the cup winning squad as legends. It wasn't just the cup final result but the semi-final (left back crosses to right back wonder goal) and playing in Europe that will likely never be equalled at ICT

We're just the lucky ones who've witnessed it. :notworthy:

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The evening during which Caley beat Celtic in front of a stunned crowd....and handily...(remember "supercaledfragislistic"...etc )  contained superb players plus, as in the semi-final  in the year we won the Scottish cup, which was  an absolute corker of a team. Remember the end of this latter game when Celtic seemed to be out on their fee, completely bamboozled by wee Caley, and simply did not know which way to turn to stop us running rings around them, was one of the most incredible games, and sets of players I have yet seen in my young life/. I will never forget either game. We were magnificent in every way.:ictscarf::notworthy:

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9 hours ago, Renegade said:

This I agree with.  I've noticed some fans, especially younger ones, have a very low bar for what a club legend is.  I've even seen it argued that everyone who played in the cup final is a club legend - they aren't.

Mulraney is a club legend for some of them. 

Whilst agreeing with what Kingsmills says (Ofere for example is not a club legend) but Raven has been here for a good few years and largely been dependable and a solid player for us. He was part of the side that really kicked on under Butcher and saw us cement ourselves as a top six side for a good few years so whilst legend might be a but much for Raven he should definitely be thought of as an ICT favourite forever written in ICT folklore with that goal v Celtic. Oh, and this screamer v County...

 

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1 hour ago, RiG said:

Mulraney is a club legend for some of them. 

Whilst agreeing with what Kingsmills says (Ofere for example is not a club legend) but Raven has been here for a good few years and largely been dependable and a solid player for us. He was part of the side that really kicked on under Butcher and saw us cement ourselves as a top six side for a good few years so whilst legend might be a but much for Raven he should definitely be thought of as an ICT favourite forever written in ICT folklore with that goal v Celtic. Oh, and this screamer v County...

 

Doh if only we had played like that even a couple of times last season against County! 

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Personally, I think Raven is worth a new deal, even if it's a short term extension to the end of this season.

Yes, he's lost a bit of pace, but he is still an intelligent & experienced footballer, which is what I think our young & inexperienced team needs just now. Maybe he's lost the pace for the premiership, but, given we are in the championship, he is worth hanging onto.

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I think it's quite clear that Raven's legs are going and he probably doesn't have much more than a season left at this level.  Despite this though, I wonder if we could get a couple more seasons out of him by moving him in-field.  Remember when the same happened to Tokely, Butcher moved him to centre-back (granted he was tall enough to offer something from set-pieces).  Could a similar work with Raven?  Raven originally started out as a centre-half and could he move back there,  as a kind of ball playing partner to Warren, similar to what Josh Meekings did?  Another option would be to have him sitting in-front of the back three or four breaking up play. 

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6 minutes ago, Renegade said:

I think it's quite clear that Raven's legs are going and he probably doesn't have much more than a season left at this level.  Despite this though, I wonder if we could get a couple more seasons out of him by moving him in-field.  Remember when the same happened to Tokely, Butcher moved him to centre-back (granted he was tall enough to offer something from set-pieces).  Could a similar work with Raven?  Raven originally started out as a centre-half and could he move back there,  as a kind of ball playing partner to Warren, similar to what Josh Meekings did?  Another option would be to have him sitting in-front of the back three or four breaking up play. 

Sounds like a good plan, but I think that it's more likely that he'll be away in January, unfortunately

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David Raven gives everything he has got still a better player than a lot of his team mates still got a lot to give even if its just experience.  

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Nothing wrong with Raven at fullback, seemed to cope not to bad today being left totally isolated with no cover in front of him.

Forget his age and concentrate on his performances , not letting us down as far as I could see.

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I would test David by offering him a contract extension but on terms more in line with what the new squad members are being paid. Interesting to see how committed he would be to the club and area. It could be a win win for both player and club.

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In his interview did he not say he was trying to sort out something in England. I’d imagine if that’s the case we may be too late. Hope not though tbh 

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He did as his child starts school next year so he wants to be settled.

Shame, though, as his experience could be key behind the scenes as well as on the park.

Shame Nick Ross won't sign on a short term deal whilst training here. I hope his ambition to play abroad comes to fruition and his career does not stall. 

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Aye..  sorry to spoil your Raven love in,  but he is past it,  did well in the past but his time is up.   Need young promising players coming through.

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He has been a great player for ICT over the years, and I agree that every player comes to a time when his career is coming to an end, but it would be beneficial for ICT to offer him a deal on the money that the new players are on. He could pass on his experience to the new squad and be there when called upon. It may not be what Raven wants, but it would be worthwhile to find out.

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13 minutes ago, Jaggernaut said:

He has been a great player for ICT over the years, and I agree that every player comes to a time when his career is coming to an end, but it would be beneficial for ICT to offer him a deal on the money that the new players are on. He could pass on his experience to the new squad and be there when called upon. It may not be what Raven wants, but it would be worthwhile to find out.

If your employer asked you to stay on and pass on your experience for less than half the wages you are on now what would you say?  

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The club certainly can't afford to pay Raven Premiership wages and, much as I like the guy, his current form doesn't warrant it.  It was a little sad to day to see him being skinned several times by 2nd division players.  But he does have good experience, he reads the game well,  and he can be effective going forward.  At our current level I think he still has something to offer as a squad player and would like to see him offered a contract commensurate with that status.  He may think such an offer derisory and clearly nobody should criticise him were he to reject such an offer and look for a better one elsewhere.  It would also be totally understandable were he to decide that now is the time to return down South both for family reasons and to look towards life when his career is over.  At 32 his best days are behind him but there is no reason why he can't play for a few more years at a non league level down south.  One way and another, I don't think we will see a lot more of David in an ICT shirt, but whatever transpires. we will have a lot to thank him for.

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Has anyone stopped to consider that it may also be failings in our fitness training that are making things worse for Dave ?

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13 minutes ago, IBM said:

If your employer asked you to stay on and pass on your experience for less than half the wages you are on now what would you say?  

If my contract was coming to an end and I didn't have any other options then yes I would. Over 30 years ago I had a good job paying very good money and the firm paid off most of the workers due to down turn in work, I took a job on a third of the wage I was on just to make ends meet. So if my employer asked me to stay on for half the wages I was on, and i wasn't on a footballers wage, I would do it. As I said, he may not want to and has other options, but what's the harm in asking, he knows the financial predicament the club is in.

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10 hours ago, IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER said:

Has anyone stopped to consider that it may also be failings in our fitness training that are making things worse for Dave ?

Yes and the rest of the team some of them looked knackered in the second half yesterday against a part time team!

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