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dougal

Unhealthy diets/poor fitness levels

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3 hours ago, IBM said:

69 before the game should do you well :wink:

Oops sorry Ian I've just realised that's your age  :laugh:

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Following further research I fear that I may stumbled on a side issue but perhaps a potential reason for the Young Team behaviour at Brechin. IT is amazing the effect that E-additives and caffeine can have on adolescents. We would not be banning them. We should be sending them to a dietician. 

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With regard to my own experience 

As a Rugby league player in my youth I would always have  a Capstan Full strength at half time, this settled my nerves.

When I joined the Fire Brigade I was subjected to non stop training for 10 weeks. This involved  days from 6 in the morning to 7 at night, we went home at weekends.

We ran, carrying ladders , running out heavy flax hose. Pitching wheeled escapes. Carrying live bodies down escape ladders over 50 feet. Pumping water for hundreds of yards , repeating the drill over and over again,

When I finished the course, I could play football for hours and not feel it.

One of the hardest drills was running on Morecambe beach in soft sand till we dropped.  Footballers have no idea how tough training can be and what the human body can stand.

Strength and stamina are important to footballer.  . My old team Wimbledon under Vinny Jones had plenty of that.

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Photo of Laurence in his hey day. There is a link to the thread as the horses were all fed Black puddings.

image.jpeg

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Faded badly in the second half yesterday, maybe just a case of some players couldn't be arsed or maybe some need to work a little bit harder on their fitness. 

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On ‎9‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 1:06 PM, IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER said:

Photo of Laurence in his hey day. There is a link to the thread as the horses were all fed Black puddings.

image.jpeg

Those horses all were well fed

When the bell rang whatever they were doing in town, irrespective of the drivers command would attend the fire station pronto.

The steamers were attached to the horses, the men would turn in and the first to arrive would get a shilling

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Having pizza or chips after away games didn't appear to do us any problems under Butcher or Yogi so I can't see it being a problem now. 

Whether or not players are eating poorly in between is another matter. 

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Anyone who witnessed the last quarter of the Dumbarton game would be saying exactly what Dougal was implying.

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Bell, making a step up you can account for at the moment. Tremarco back after a long injury as well. The rest, that was embarrassing. Polly and Trafford were running on empty, is was obvious. There is something far wrong that full time footballers can't last 90 minutes, especially against Dumbarton and after a first half were we had the majority of the ball and playing with lite intensity with it.

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21 minutes ago, Stirling Observer said:

Bell, making a step up you can account for at the moment. Tremarco back after a long injury as well. The rest, that was embarrassing. Polly and Trafford were running on empty, is was obvious. There is something far wrong that full time footballers can't last 90 minutes, especially against Dumbarton and after a first half were we had the majority of the ball and playing with lite intensity with it.

Would you not agree that Polly and Trafford were fecked running to cover others ??

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I would, partly due to the formation with no recognised wide man on the right hand side as Bell was asked to play up front but cover right when we lost the ball. Also the usual problem of covering for a central midfielder who lacks mobility. Unfortunately we have no-one of any standard to challenge for his position, so he can stroll through games barking at refs and players while others pick up his runners. 

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Despite the problem that is Vigurs, the point still stands. As professionals they all should be able to last a 90 min game. However we have no recognised centre mid on the bench to challenge for their positions. Perhaps Seedorf or Calder could play in there, but in all honesty, I am clutching.

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56 minutes ago, Stirling Observer said:

As professionals they all should be able to last a 90 min game. 

I'm not sure if I would accept that as a blanket observation, SO. Different individuals have different muscle structures and, in some cases, these are set up for speed, acceleration and power. In extreme cases this will mean that endurance is quite poor and not really capable of much improvement. Football is a strange combination where the game lasts for 90 minutes but within that, success can very often be dependent on the ability to move very quickly for a short distance. Some are good one way, some the other but it's pretty well physiologically impossible to be brilliant at both.

To give an example, Johnny Hayes used to get criticised a bit for falling out of the game after about an hour, the implication being that he wasn't "fit enough". Now OK, if someone told me that Johnny maybe didn't bust a gut some of the time, I might not disbelieve that. However, the guy is just so electric in terms of speed and acceleration that it's highly likely he has a lot of fast twitch muscle fibres in there to be able to do that. The corollary is that there will be fewer slow twitch ones which confer endurance and the ability to last the 90 minutes and there really isn't much that can be done about that.

It also follows that, in terms of training and conditioning, there is no one size fits all solution.

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That may be true, Charles, but I certainly get the impression that fitness levels in general aren't as good as they were.  If that is the case then it needs to be addressed.  Games are won and lost by fine margins - a player with that little bit of extra energy gets onto the end of the through ball  and scores; a defender who still has spring in his legs intercepts a cross before it can reach an opponent.  Irrespective of any change in player personnel or tactics etc, maximising fitness is a key requirement for any footballer and can make a big difference in terms of results.  It would appear that there are some ICT players who could be and should be fitter than they are.

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I take your point Charles, however within the squad, i would hazard a guess that only Mulreany could use his muscle fibres as an excuse for a lack of stamina. Even before the sending off, the Dumbarton players were seeing out the game comfortably whilst our bunch were blowing out their hoops. No excuses for that. Hard work and application required during the week and training intensity needs to be upped several levels. 

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I am absolutely hearing what SO and DD are saying and indeed the only point I was making was that some players will find it more difficult than others to train to develop the capacity to give a consistent 90 minutes. As a result, a "one size fits all" approach to fitness and conditioning probably isn't the best but I don't know to what extent training tends to be individualised in football.

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19 hours ago, Stirling Observer said:

Polly and Trafford were running on empty, is was obvious. There is something far wrong that full time footballers can't last 90 minutes, especially against Dumbarton and after a first half were we had the majority of the ball and playing with lite intensity with it.

I wasn't at the game so not for singling out, but its not the first time this or previous seasons Polly looks knackered during a game. Whether this is because he has to do work for others and gives more or because he's playing in roles unfamiliar so wasting energy its unclear although I do think its more the latter. This has been the case for a few seasons now on occasion, so perhaps the perceived lack of fitness isn't new or the levels haven't changed but our playing style has. 

Under Yogi we were much more organised defensively, at time pedestrian in going forwards and spent a lot of time on ball retention and moving it about. Recently our tactics are to run about chasing the ball and the game therefore perhaps exposing our lack of fitness and suitable coaching - under Butcher we player more attacking football which perhaps focused on a different fitness strategy which may have been a continuation of the changes Brewster brought in. Like him or not Brewster played in Europe and learned from that about lifestyle and taking care of himself, hence why he could play on at the highest level into is late 30's - and while some may argue Scottish football isn't that high a level, its probably more fast paced and physical than most leagues in Europe.

 

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I thought Polworth did a lot of running, especially in the roving role. Trafford is a bit pedestrian like Draper but I still feels that he is doing a lot of covering for Vigurs. But neither should be whacked by the end of the game although I feel that they have more of an excuse than others.The general fitness levels are a major concern. Although the selection of Chambers and Oakley was surprising, playing Tremarco in midfield and a reluctance to take on substitutes. The pace of Baird and Mulraney should have been utilised earlier. Or perhaps they were too kanckered to be bothered.

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Is anyone aware of managers/coaches using Biorhythms in conjunction with a player's fitness level? Biorhythms are based on your date of birth and the three main cycles of physical (23 days), emotional (28 days) and mental (33 days) Here's a link to explain further - http://www.igbio.com/whatar fot those not familiar with them.

Looking at a player's  Biorhythm on match days could determine whether picking a player with high levels  may be preferential to picking one with low or lower levels given that they have similar footballing abilities

 Has anyone got any thoughts on this?

Edited by Red White and Blue
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No.

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12 minutes ago, Red White and Blue said:

Is anyone aware of managers/coaches using Biorhythms in conjunction with a player's fitness level? Biorhythms are based on your date of birth and the three main cycles of physical (23 days), emotional (28 days) and mental (33 days) Here's a link to explain further - http://www.igbio.com/whatar fot those not familiar with them.

Looking at a player's  Biorhythm on match days could determine whether picking a player with high levels  may be preferential to picking one with low or lower levels given that they have similar footballing abilities

 Has anyone got any thoughts on this?

I general I think this comes from the same stable of Bollox as Astrology. On the other hand there are certain shorter term cyclical considerations such as it being said to be helpful to train at least sometimes at the same time of day as you compete which may be more relevant. Traditional morning training for full time footballers may not, therefore, be ideal and maybe the part timers training in the evening may be closer to the mark but I'm not sure that many train at 3pm.

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On ‎9‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 8:49 PM, Charles Bannerman said:

I'm not sure if I would accept that as a blanket observation, SO. Different individuals have different muscle structures and, in some cases, these are set up for speed, acceleration and power. In extreme cases this will mean that endurance is quite poor and not really capable of much improvement. Football is a strange combination where the game lasts for 90 minutes but within that, success can very often be dependent on the ability to move very quickly for a short distance. Some are good one way, some the other but it's pretty well physiologically impossible to be brilliant at both.

What about Fartlek running? Doesn't that improve both power and endurance? Can't recall ever seeing any road runners in the sneck actually doing it, but supposedly much better for you than 'jogging'.

Edited by AlexJones

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