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Inverness CT -V- St Mirren

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Phew!

CaleyMadInBerks is right on when he says that video is required so that each incident can be correctly assessed. Perhaps two referees could also be a boon to the game.

I have been advocating the use of video for a long time in respect of correctly assessing whether or not the ball was over the goalmouth line. But it's general use seems to be a non starter in the U K whereas overseas it is just a normal part of the games nowadays.

However, if the officiating is as bad as has been stated on here, then the SFA authorities may not want it since it would only show up all the mistakes in the refereeing and the possible prejudices that might exist in the minds of the refs as well. Not to mention the extra money they might have to pay out to elect and train a  better quality of individuals to run their games.

 

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Just watched the highlights thanks to St mirren ....

We looked very good first half even in terrible conditions. 

To be fair to chick he did say caley deserved to be in front and we're playing well at half time. 

Second half polworths tackle was great and the penalty decision atrocious. The Samson assault was full wwe and he should have been Red carded and penalty awarded.terrible result good performance. 

We now need to get on another 7 game run. I am now confident we will finish in top half of table how far up could be surprising as all three top teams are dropping points. 

Open league lots to look forwards too. Let's restart the run on Tuesday.  

Edited by Moogthurso

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1. Penalty? On reflection, yes. Clumsy by Polworth. Gave the ref a decision to make.

2. Vigurs? Really harsh to go off for these two yellows. For the 1st, he was getting kicked to bits. For the 2nd, look forward to abandoned games if that's the measure.

3. Samson? So should have gone. I'm still furious about this one. Notice how he virtually thanks the ref (right hand acknowledgment) for just receiving a yellow. He thought he was gone too!

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I am lost for words that Samson was never sent off. It's possibly the most blatant red card offence you could ever see. The laws of the game are clear, under violent conduct (http://www.the-afc.com/uploads/afc/files/IFAB-laws-of-the-game-2017-2018.pdf Page 104):

Violent conduct is when a player uses or attempts to use excessive force or brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball, or against a team-mate, team official, match official, spectator or any other person, regardless of whether contact is made.

In addition, a player who, when not challenging for the ball, deliberately strikes an opponent or any other person on the head or face with the hand or arm, is guilty of violent conduct unless the force used was negligible.


The highlighted text clearly shows why Samson should have been sent off. How McKendrick did not do so is completely unfathomable.

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The only way that was not a red card would be if none of the officials saw the incident. As Samson got a yellow card then clearly the referee did see it. 

Had I done to a St Mirren fan what Samson did to Vigurs, I would have been escorted out of the ground by the police. It was assault pure and simple. 

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 Difficult to see the penalty properly on a small screen, but it's never a good idea to give a Scottish ref a decision to make. 

I take it Vigurs was booked for his reaction to the blatant simulation? If that's a yellow, how the hell did Samson stay on?

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Maybe a coach challenge flag similar to the system in the NFL may be a step forward to get decisions  right ?

It is quite noticeable how often on-line decisions  are reversed in the NFL  by the video adjudicators.

I think  football is probably the only sport ( in the UK ) that is basically adjudicated in the same way as it was in the 19th century

Some years ago I corresponded with a top level  referee  in the English game , his view that officiating for top level games had to be identical  to all levels of the professional game.

He was also bothered about the cost and the problems of recruiting top level officials.   Another viewpoint that match officials  should stick together as a team. Consistently working together, and forming a bond to help getting matters right.

Mind you according to the moderator I am narrow minded . So take no notice of my observations.

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Caption competition, I'll start.

"Cheers pal. You're a gent and a scholar. What's your poison for afterwards."

 

20171127_134123.jpg

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Score 9 points with pike -

According to the rules

Criteria for Judging a Dive

  • 0: Completely Failed
  • .5 - 2: Unsatisfactory
  • 2.5 - 4.5: Deficient
  • 5 - 6.5: Satisfactory
  • 7 - 8: Good
  • 8.5 - 9.5: Very good
  • 10: Excellent
Edited by Laurence

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"Recruiting top officials".... Not the same words I used in an earlier post but definitely the same meaning .

It boils down to the fact that they need a far better training scheme but, more so,,  in reality what is really needed is that Scottish Football needs a  far better quality of person to do the officiating.

If they feel that it is unlikely that they can find such person in Scotland then they should offer far better compensation and bring in foreigners from England or overseas with a proven and exemplary completely unbiased approach and past record. One might argue that  1,000 pounds per game  is not chicken feed but so far it has not been enough of an incentive to attract anyone I have seen who fits the bill.

When I was watching the  videos for Overseas wallahs like myself I was astonished at some of the decisions made against ICT and had reached the stage of actually wondering if there was some kind of bias or conspiracy against our team, so palpably nonsensical some of the decisions appeared to me to be.

Will that happen? ..NO  chance!   Firstly, the cheap people who run the show will never want to spend that kind of money on a better official and secondly they will never admit that the situation is as bad as it seems and paying out more money will, in their view, only be an admission of failure. 

They could avoid all this  nonsense if they were to bring  in proper video recordings and more officials to act as independent assessors of controversial decisions by immediately consulting these videos  .

Will this happen.?  Not unless some kind of formal complaint process is sought from the clubs and considered in open court by representatives from all clubs.
And will that happen in the near future? My answer is again,. no chance.   :redcard:

 

 

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The fact that one of our "top" officials was fast-tracked while his dad was head of refereeing tells you all you need to know about the integrity of our officiating. 

The fact that this "top" official is useless, kind of underlines the point. 

Edited by HawkeyeTheGnu
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I have felt for quite a lot of times the problems with many Refs they pick someone who's the team they like another  and another they don't like  so one team people get giving yellow cards or reds or fouls but the other side can do anything and get off with it.

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Clearly the SFA think a lot of McKendrick. He's been sent down to League 2 this coming weekend. That said he will somehow act as the 4th official in the Rangers v Aberdeen game tomorrow night. I suspect that geographical reasons rather than ability might be the reason for this.

Edited by RiG

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4 minutes ago, RiG said:

Clearly the SFA think a lot of McKendrick. He's been sent down to League 2 this coming weekend. That said he will someone act as the 4th official in the Rangers v Aberdeen game tomorrow night. I suspect that geographical reasons rather than ability might be the reason for this.

As long as he's nowhere near Palmerston this weekend. 

As far as his fourth official duties go, even he can't mess up holding an electronic board, surely. 

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14 minutes ago, HawkeyeTheGnu said:

As long as he's nowhere near Palmerston this weekend. 

As far as his fourth official duties go, even he can't mess up holding an electronic board, surely. 

I wouldn't bet on it.

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The referee, the referee, the referee. Bottom line is We didn’t take our chances when we had them and couldn’t score any goals. If we’d played for another 4 hours on Saturday we still wouldn’t have scored. 

Mckendrick was poor but sadly you have to accept that’s part of the game. Vigurs should’ve been experienced enough after a very dodgy 1st yellow to not put himself in that situation. Samson took a chance and it paid off for him. He got our player sent off. He should’ve gone too but got away with it. St Mirren did a right number on us throughout most of the game. Almost all our players got wound up by McShane and they all fell for it. In regards to mckendrick I actually think he knew he got the penalty decision wrong then fell apart after that.

I thought Robbos interview was totally embarrassing as were some of the ‘official’ tweets after the game. We sounded like very bad losers.

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37 minutes ago, Sir C the 3rd said:

The referee, the referee, the referee. Bottom line is We didn’t take our chances when we had them and couldn’t score any goals. If we’d played for another 4 hours on Saturday we still wouldn’t have scored. 

Mckendrick was poor but sadly you have to accept that’s part of the game. Vigurs should’ve been experienced enough after a very dodgy 1st yellow to not put himself in that situation. Samson took a chance and it paid off for him. He got our player sent off. He should’ve gone too but got away with it. St Mirren did a right number on us throughout most of the game. Almost all our players got wound up by McShane and they all fell for it. In regards to mckendrick I actually think he knew he got the penalty decision wrong then fell apart after that.

I thought Robbos interview was totally embarrassing as were some of the ‘official’ tweets after the game. We sounded like very bad losers.

We are all entitled to our opinions but I doubt there will be many who share yours on this.   When referees realise they get something wrong they usually err on the side of the wronged team to make amends.  That clearly didn't happen.  If anything it appeared he wanted to punish our players for having the audacity to question his decisions.  For example, for the brief time he was on the pitch Oakley was being held onto as though he was a life raft.  A couple of times one of his buddie companions had such a hold on his shirt that half of his bare back was displayed to the referee.  McKendrick ignored that but then pulled Oakley up for the slightest of tugs at one of the opposition players.  It was quite farcical.

Of course players need to show discipline  when they are being wound up.  Vigurs needs to button it at times but at least he didn't raise his hands to the opposition, let alone strike them. Samson wasn't the only St Mirren player to strike an opponent.  Just before Vigurs' first yellow, Baird was pulled to the ground by a defender and then off the ball was given a totally unnecessary push in the back.  In general I felt our guys were pretty restrained in the light of major provocation and shameful refereeing.

As for Robbo's interview, there is a world of difference between being a bad loser and being honest about being cheated.  I thought he was very restrained.  Being too honest might have got him into trouble.

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I completely agree with DoofersDad .

John Robertson could hardly have NOT said a word about the inequities blatantly  obvious in the refereeing in this game,  unless he had nothing to say of course.

Yet he was very cool , even if he was seething inside of himself, and I saw little to find fault with in his demeanour or his statements. In fact I admired his self-control! Period.

The question is not that he should have  been afraid to speak his mind in what some might suggest was  a very prejudiced way, or whether or not he was telling the truth, as I also saw it on the video.  But IMHO he was dead right in what he said and, frankly, I  think that he was remarkably restrained like a true professional and factual to the end. The problem with  speaking to the facts is that he and ICT may  be singled out in the future by crappy referees under instruction to curb "these upstarts from the North " type of thing. 

The refereeing is often inept, seemingly totally biased and often appears to be consistently against ICT in the games that I have seen on the computer. I repeat, the Scottish refs I have seen don't seem to be high quality individuals, either in their understanding or even perception of the game--- OR--- they are either  acting under instruction or  by way of ingrained bias. 

Why does  the SFA not have some kind of appeal process so that the video can be quickly  reviewed by a very senior level of independent referees not on the direct payroll of the SFA? Or  at least some kind of very independent panel elected by a World Body? Or am I delirious or just plain dreaming or maybe just totally spoiled by watching the hugely-monied and very fair immediate review processes currently operating in the Canadian/U.S. National Ice hockey League with hardly a word of negative  comment against their methods. On the relatively small ice area there are at least 3 referees plus instant video review and, if that fails, then an immediate phone call across a continent to the review body in Toronto who sees all the action on their own computers and renders an almost immediate verdict with hardly even a moan from the paying public. It's super fair and satisfies all parties.

Done and dusted. 

Any comment from the fans attending the matches ...p[lease ?

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