Who's to blame..

[caley100]

CC or Dp? or both?  Black was the best player on the park, was he not fit, did he ask off or was it the worst tactical decision we have seen from the management? whatever it was it changed the game.

If he was not fit, was it because of a lack of match fitness? if so who's fault is that?  the last few league games we have screamed for Black to be given more games, why? because he is the best midfielder at the club and yet the coaches dont give him a game.

We heard that Black had mage a gesture that he was all in, yet others say he looked really pissed of at being hooked, will we ever hear the truth from CC, or will it be the small club excuses again.

To put three attackers on and go 4 3 3 is suicide against Ceptic, the blame in my opinion is down to management.

[Dmacca]

True thought black was the best player today, thought perhaps it was fresh to play Wilson behind Bayne drop Rory who i thought was a little out of is depth at motherwell(needs to impose himself abit more) At times today thought we played a little to deep, commented to a freind with about 15 mins to go that we should perhaps go man for man the game looked won but we were giving to much space.

[givmeaccccc]

Can't wait to hear what CC has to say in tomorrow's papers. The game was screaming for Caff to come on and shore things up NOT two 'strikers'.

Bayne man of the match just ahead of Black.

Did Fraser see Miller's goal a little late?

[RiG]

If you wanted to be super strict - John Rankin for the second goal for sure anyway.

I felt really bad for Barry Wilson. He wasn't great today but he did well but that was possibly his last and best chance to get to the final and maybe even win it and look what happened! Poor guy was in tears!  :007:

[+Tree]

It was confirmed in the post match interview that Black had signalled to the bench that he was 'knackered' and needed to come off.

In terms of taking Caff on, we suffered in the last match from sitting too deep and to keep some form of balance in moving the game forward I would imagine the decision was takent o put some attacking minded people on.

[crownjaggie]

where's the sense in bringing on 2 attackers in the last ten minutes when we are 1-0 up against celtic!!! :024:

its mad worse by the fact that neither of those players could score in a brothel!

we lost because 10CC fecked it up - pure and simple! :008:

[Charles Bannerman]

Who's to blame? I blame Graeme Bennett and David Sutherland for appointing Charlie Christie when they could and obviously should have appointed Crownjaggie.

[Ronaldo]

No one's to blame, that's just football for you.

I though CC's decision to go for broke was a **** fine and brave idea, camping in your own penalty box with lots of defenders in a cup tie against Celtic is a bad idea. As the game wore on you're just asking for trouble, trying to hit them on the break with more forwards in my opionion was a better idea.  

I agree with you Rich that Blackie was best player on the park, but tired for sure when he came off.

As for Johndo's dream? almost if Rankin could have hit the net in the second half!!!

[ICT_Away]

thought the makeup of the bench was all wrong yesterday - it was set up for us to go 4-3-3 and chase the game, when if you play 4-5-1 you only need 1 striker as a sub... As for the Caff or no Caff question - I'd have put him on ahead of both strikers into a dual holding role with Duncan - if this was the case we wouldn't have lost. So as far as blame - sits squarely with CC & DP for this one I'm afraid. As long as they learn then that's good enough for me.

[CaleyD]

I watched with disbelief as the subs were made.  There's times to be brave and go for it and there's times where you have to dig in and hold on to what you have (a bird in the hand and all that).

Black was immense yesterday and I'm not suprised he was knackered and had to be subbed, but to bring on a strikers and change the formation was, as has been said above, suicide.

We obviously went in to this match expecting to have to go for broke in the final 15 to 20 minutes, that was obvious from the players we had on the bench, and this seems to have been the gameplan which CC stuck too despite the fact we were a goal up, it was like the whole thing was cast in stone and he had to follow it through regardless.

I'm a huge fan of CC, but I'm afraid he got it wrong yesterday and we were punished in unbelievable fashion for it.  One thing you can be sure of though is that CC will have realised himself by now where it all went t!ts up and nobody will be beating him up for it more than himself.

Disappointed?  - Yes I am

Angry?  - I was, but thats passed

Calling for CC's head? - Not at all, he continues to learn from his errors IMO, and thats a strength in itself.  If we had scored a second yesterday as a result of his substitutions and went on to win he would have been hailed as a hero and his decisions refered to as 'Brave' - as it is, it all went wrong and he has to live with his decisions being refered to as 'Stupid'.

Some old and wise dude (probably) once said - "What doesn't kill us makes us stronger".  CC has to be given time to develop as a manager, in the same way as players have to be given time to develop and I am still confident that he has a **** of a lot to offer us in the coming years.

Yesterday was a very sore lesson to learn, but it won't be the only one CC will have to face as he progresses up a very steep managerial learning curve.

[shawn_sheep]

CC made the worse possible change in bringing on McAllister with 4 mins to go. It would almost have been acceptable if it was an experienced striker like dargo or wyness who could maybe hold up the ball or take it for a run down to the corner but McAllister just ran about like a headless chicken.

And why after the kick off for Celtics 2nd goal did Rankin boot the ball straight out for a Celtic goal kick?????  :010: wasn't long left but there might have been one last chance

[Mrs Pauliebee]

CC made the worse possible change in bringing on McAllister with 4 mins to go. It would almost have been acceptable if it was an experienced striker like dargo or wyness who could maybe hold up the ball or take it for a run down to the corner but McAllister just ran about like a headless chicken.

:025: :025: :025:

Sorry, don't but Rory just aint up to it.  Every time he comes on he gets pushed off the ball far too easy!  A lad his size should have more presence! 

[CaleyD]

A lad his size should have more presence! 

And there we have it - it was all Santa's fault  :002:

[Conival]

No one's to blame, that's just football for you.

Agree absolutely. Why does someone have to be blamed? Sometimes things just happen regardless.

I would assume McAllister was brought on to keep the formation 4-4-2 that had worked for the rest of game. CC will have thought about who to bring on, he won't just have thrown someone on at random.

[clacher_holiday2]

"Calling for CC's head? - Not at all, he continues to learn from his errors IMO, and thats a strength in itself.  If we had scored a second yesterday as a result of his substitutions and went on to win he would have been hailed as a hero and his decisions refered to as 'Brave' - as it is, it all went wrong and he has to live with his decisions being refered to as 'Stupid'."

ok what mistakes has he made and what where has he learned from them... ?  ive seen no evidence of this

[Jaggy666]

watched the game at home yesterday as i have the chicken pox :020: and from watching it on tv CC is definatley to blame! i would say 5 mins out of that game we had the ball on the deck, every time we got it we just gave it straight back to them, a very negative performance and i dont know why, Celtic are pretty pi*h and if we had gone out there with an attacking passing game im sure not only would we have won the game but would have won it convincingly. At the end of the day CC doesnt have a clue what hes doing, time and time again he screws up with his laughable subs and shocking tactics and it was him who cost us that game, surely he knows now he aint cut out for being a manager!

[RiG]

I would assume McAllister was brought on to keep the formation 4-4-2 that had worked for the rest of game.

I don't think we were playing 4 - 4 - 2 for most of that game.

[caleyboy]

Nobody to blame - we lost to the Scottish Champions in the last minutes. :clapping02:

To survive the Celtic possession for most of the game deserves credit but we must very quickly become more street wise!

[Guest neksor]

Commiserations to CC and all the players.

They played hard and well against the runaway league leaders and a team that is in the last 16 of Europe!

They have the money to buy very good players and that is evident for all to see.

Have we not come a long way when we can compete and almost win against them.

Keep it up ICT

Neksor

[Alex MacLeod]

Not one person involved with ICT is to blame for yesterday. Everything went well for 87 minutes and if we had held out for 5 more this thread would not have been started.

I doubt very much whether we would have held out had Caff come on. Celtic played their usual game of tire out the opposition then strike. They've played like that all season and its had the desired effect.

Our defence was solid throughout so I suppose the thought was that there was no need to change anything there. Caff is usually only effective as right back so I suppose he wouldn't fit in in midfield and suddenly going five at the back would upset a system that has worked for a long time. I think the big problem arose with Roy McBain getting hurt. Hart had to be brought on too early and there was only strikers left on the bench.

For me its a bit of a concern that a youngster like Black finds himself requesting to be hooked. Barry I can understand. I know Ian put in a hard workrate but his fitness levels should be such that he is able to see out a full game.

[RiG]

For me its a bit of a concern that a youngster like Black finds himself requesting to be hooked. Barry I can understand. I know Ian put in a hard workrate but his fitness levels should be such that he is able to see out a full game.

Black covered every blade of grass yesterday as he got back to defend and then up to support the strikers. He has also not had first team football regularly recently which, regardless of what anyone says, is key to maintaining your fitness.

[absent friend]

Alex, regarding the last part of your post - I feel certain that there is a problem, overall, with fitness now. We were great in the latter part of matches going back to Brews days, match any team for work ethic and I feel certain (some one will confirm this or shoot me down in flames) that we did not let in late goals as we do now.

Your point about Black and indeed to a lesser extent Wilson, being unable to do the full 90 mins does point to a training problem.  We can not compete with the buying power of the top teams but surely we can hone the players we have to give us their best for 2 hours +.  Now I accept that there are players who do not have the juice in their tanks to last 90 mins and indeed some of the best players I have seen have been this way(Liverpools supersub with the red hair circa 1995, comes to mind) but this calls for another management skill, to recognise this problem and take action before the player ASKS to come off! 

One of the top managers once stated that when tiredness crept in the first thing that was lost was natural skill.  We cannot afford to drop any of the natural skill our guys have due to being undertrained if this be the issue.

[RiG]

We have conceded 18 goals in the final 30 minutes, 11 of those have been lost in the final fifteen minutes.

Interestingly though we have also scored the same number of goals in that final fifteen minute period as we have lost.

[Harry Chibber]

Who's to blame..

The fans!!

We severely lacked the 12th man yesterday, even after going 1-0 ahead in the Scottish cup quarter final against currently the best team in Scotland we struggled to muster a CALEY CALEY CALEY

It seems that most people would say that the substitution of Black was the turning point in the game (me included) but with Hart having to come on for McBain we were left only with the option of another Striker.  The question is whether Black should have come off... he bossed the midfield all game but if his tackles were refereed by a different ref he could have easily walked and he was absolutely shattered which meant he was more likely to go into someone with a bad challenge.  IMO it was a bad decision to take Black off but I can certainly see why CC did it.

I can understand the frustration but you should be asking how the team managed to lead a game against the champions of the SPL for 88 minutes.. answer because CC and Parkie had the tactics spot on, the team were absolutely superb for the majority of the game yesterday and yet the only thing anyone seems to want to talk about is the last 3 minutes of madness.

[crownjaggie]

We aren't the first team this season to get done by Celtic in the last few minutes and I don't expect us to be last. 

I think the only thing I would have done different was Caff on instead of Rory and bring Roscoe inside a bit. 

The boys tried their hearts out and got mugged.