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Caman

5th Place

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If we win on Tuesday, we then face a do or die against Dunfermline, with only a win allowing us to overcome them in the league. Livi are out of sight for the playoffs and Scumdee Utd have 3 games 2 very winnable for them. If we were to beat Dunfermline, I hope our momentum could allow us to overcome Livi and then Morton away on the last day, to claim that 4th place ahead of Dunfermline and Morton. 

Tall ask, but we are hitting the right results and form. Taking that run into the playoff, we could end up with the biggest ever double header Highland derby. No matter what, in every game after Dumbarton, we will be the underdogs, a tag we do like

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On 13/04/2018 at 11:04 PM, old caley girl said:

Excellent post imho 

I would argue that the plans would have taken account for not being promoted this season - it's very rare for a team to go straight back up (I was very pleasantly suprised last time we did it), far bigger & better resourced clubs than ours have not managed a quickfire return to the top flight.

If the board had any sense, the financial considerations would have been based on Championship football next season - personally, I'm just glad that we're safe in the Championship - that was my expectations got this season. The cup win & still being in with a (small) chance of a promotion playoff spot is a bonus.

Next season, with a far more settled team & club, I'd be looking for a serious title challenge.

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45 minutes ago, jingsmonty said:

I would argue that the plans would have taken account for not being promoted this season - it's very rare for a team to go straight back up (I was very pleasantly suprised last time we did it), far bigger & better resourced clubs than ours have not managed a quickfire return to the top flight.

If the board had any sense, the financial considerations would have been based on Championship football next season - personally, I'm just glad that we're safe in the Championship - that was my expectations got this season. The cup win & still being in with a (small) chance of a promotion playoff spot is a bonus.

Next season, with a far more settled team & club, I'd be looking for a serious title challenge.

If you read your original ST letter the expectation was indeed to push to go straight back up! I dont think many of us had the thought of a 2nd successive relegation in our minds at all? 

I worry theres not a plan. Mentions of budget cuts etc dont inspire confidence at all. Just as things appear to be coming good on the field are we about to lose senior players again? Personally Im enjoying things at the moment but I certainly dont have any real expectation of us doing a St Mirren next season. Glad to be proved wrong though. 

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Isn’t the mention of budget cuts a bit premature. We don’t know where we will finish in the league as each place is worth more than the one below and if we did make the play offs surely that would also relate to more income. 

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1 hour ago, jagster said:

Isn’t the mention of budget cuts a bit premature. We don’t know where we will finish in the league as each place is worth more than the one below and if we did make the play offs surely that would also relate to more income. 

The playing budget is cut. Robbo said it himself yesterday 

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Yes, the budget for the current season would have  assumed higher crowds and a higher league finish than we are getting.

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Only potential positive in this whole season would be if we did somehow still scrape the play-offs, each game would be hopefully a sell out & include some TV coverage. That might be a small consolation to bring in some revenue.

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40 minutes ago, bdu98196 said:

Only potential positive in this whole season would be if we did somehow still scrape the play-offs, each game would be hopefully a sell out & include some TV coverage. That might be a small consolation to bring in some revenue.

If we somehow make it to the playoffs I can't imagine the Inverness public suddenly rallying behind their team sadly.

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12 hours ago, RiG said:

If we somehow make it to the playoffs I can't imagine the Inverness public suddenly rallying behind their team sadly.

If we get to the final, then you would hope for a good turn out.

However, the play offs are so heavily weighted in favour of the SPL team, it would be a very tall order (although as a previous poster said we have always been at our best when written off). Only in Scotland can the powers that be devise such a skewed system (almost on a par with the SPL split).

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12 hours ago, DWH said:

If we get to the final, then you would hope for a good turn out.

However, the play offs are so heavily weighted in favour of the SPL team, it would be a very tall order (although as a previous poster said we have always been at our best when written off). Only in Scotland can the powers that be devise such a skewed system (almost on a par with the SPL split).

The SPL hasn't existed for about 5 years now and the playoffs aren't "heavily weighted" in favour of the top tier side. Over the course of the season including playoffs the sides that finish 3rd or 4th in the Championship will only play two more games than the side that finishes 11th in the Premiership.

Edited by RiG
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32 minutes ago, RiG said:

The SPL hasn't existed for about 5 years now and the playoffs aren't "heavily weighted" in favour of the top tier side. Over the course of the season including playoffs the sides that finish 3rd or 4th in the Championship will only play two more games than the side that finishes 11th in the Premiership.

My understanding is that the 3rd and 4th play off over 2 legs, the winner playing the 2nd placed team in the Championship (again over 2 legs). The winner then plays off over 2 legs against the 11th Premier League team? If my understanding is wrong, apologies.

If not, I'd call that pretty weighted in favour of the top tier team.

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Top tier has a 38 game season + 2 game playoff = 40

Championship = 36 games + 6 games = 42

Difference of only 2 games

 

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19 minutes ago, DWH said:

My understanding is that the 3rd and 4th play off over 2 legs, the winner playing the 2nd placed team in the Championship (again over 2 legs). The winner then plays off over 2 legs against the 11th Premier League team? If my understanding is wrong, apologies.

If not, I'd call that pretty weighted in favour of the top tier team.

As @bdu98196 points out whilst the Chapmionship teams play more play off games the Premiership sides play more league games. There is a small difference in the total number of games for the sides finishing 3rd or 4th in the Championship compared to 11th in the Premiership but it's not so much that the setup heavily favours the top tier side.

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Play offs are a separate tournament, so league games are irrelevant in calculating odds/weighting of any benefit afforded to one team over any another participating in it.

FWiW....I don't think it unfair on those finishing 3rd or 4th in the Championship....but it is maybe a little harsh on those finishing second.  Would the championship teams give up the increased chance of a play off spot for a "fairer" setup? Not a chance!

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4 minutes ago, RiG said:

As @bdu98196 points out whilst the Chapmionship teams play more play off games the Premiership sides play more league games. There is a small difference in the total number of games for the sides finishing 3rd or 4th in the Championship compared to 11th in the Premiership but it's not so much that the setup heavily favours the top tier side.

Yup, I get that but as the play offs are played over a pretty short time period, the way it is set up favours the top tier team who play a max of 2 matches, whereas the Championship teams will play 4 or 6 matches (if they reach the final)

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But that's not the case as the Championship season finishes before the Premiership one. The play-offs with 3rd/4th place start when the Premiership is still going.

This system is no more fair or unfair than down south where 7th in the League can still get to the Premiership even though 3 teams were better over a league campaign, the only difference is in Scotland we give the Premiership team a 2nd chance to stay up. 

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3 minutes ago, bdu98196 said:

But that's not the case as the Championship season finishes before the Premiership one. The play-offs with 3rd/4th place start when the Premiership is still going.

This system is no more fair or unfair than down south where 7th in the League can still get to the Premiership even though 3 teams were better over a league campaign, the only difference is in Scotland we give the Premiership team a 2nd chance to stay up. 

So I take it you are perfectly content with the manner in which the play offs are set up?

Surely it should be straight semi finals / final (as they do south of the border) : or is that too simple for the authorities up here?

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I'm not saying its the best format - I'd prefer 2 up & 2 down but that wont happen, so this is the best option as voted for by the clubs and is certainly a vast improvement on 1 up/down from before and crazy limiting criteria like 10'000 seater stadia etc being used to keep the status quo at the top.

Like the league formats we can all argue what is the best set up, number of teams and format. In all honesty I think that no awarding the 2nd best team in the league over 36 games or penalising the 2nd worst over 38 games itself is hugely unfair. The concept that allows teams who have been less consistent or impressive to still have a '2nd bite' at promotion is most unfair of all. If play-offs exist then no matter whether over 1 leg at a neutral venue or 2 at home or away its irrelevant as both teams should have equal opportunity.

 

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Agree with bdu98196. I'd prefer a straight two up, two down approach or at least keep the playoffs in the same style as those between Championship/League 1 and League 1/League 2.

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6 minutes ago, RiG said:

Agree with bdu98196. I'd prefer a straight two up, two down approach or at least keep the playoffs in the same style as those between Championship/League 1 and League 1/League 2.

Agree 100% that 2 up / 2 down would be the ideal scenario and would result in a much more fluid movement / opportunities.  My point was solely that the current system gives the top tier team an unfair advantage.

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I was originally opposed to the play offs because it just seemed wrong that a team could get promoted when finishing the league season below a team which doesn’t get promoted. However, I am now well and truly converted. It keeps the excitement going for most teams till pretty late in the season regardless of whether they actually make (or manage  to escape) the play offs. 

As for the play offs themselves, I would much rather see two semis and then a final.  I guess the current arrangement is a reward for final league position which I suppose is fair enough. 

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The Premier team gets a bye into the final. Can’t see how that’s not weighted in their favour...

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Or as Barley Chatterman would put it (stay awake at the back there!):

Assume for simplicity that all teams are equal in ability.

Premier club

P(win) = 0.5

Championship runner-up

P(win) = 0.5 x 0.5 = 0.25

Championship 3rd/4th place

P(win) = 0.5 x 0.5 x 0.5 = 0.125

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4 hours ago, TheMantis said:

The Premier team gets a bye into the final. Can’t see how that’s not weighted in their favour...

My point exactly : surprised some have no problem with it.

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On 17/04/2018 at 11:21 AM, DoofersDad said:

I was originally opposed to the play offs because it just seemed wrong that a team could get promoted when finishing the league season below a team which doesn’t get promoted. However, I am now well and truly converted. It keeps the excitement going for most teams till pretty late in the season regardless of whether they actually make (or manage  to escape) the play offs. 

As for the play offs themselves, I would much rather see two semis and then a final.  I guess the current arrangement is a reward for final league position which I suppose is fair enough. 

Evidenced by Brechin getting promoted after finishing fourth and being out of their depth.

I support going to straight semis and final.

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