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Showing content with the highest reputation on 02/14/2011 in all areas

  1. Im probably going to get absolute pelters for this but here goes. In my opinion this subject is getting rather tiresome. I have travelled to the majority of away games this season and love nothing more than following my team all over the country. I enjoy everthing about it. The trip down and back on the train, pre match drinks and getting the craic with my mates. But primarily im there to watch the football and support my team. Thats what it is all about. We are all down there to watch the game of football. Now I totally agree with everyone else that some of the stewarding is ridiculous and heavy-handed but at some point everyone is going to have to stop all the nonense and abide by their rules. People got chucked out at the first away game of the season at tannadice and since then it has been happening on a weekly basis. There has been occasions where I too have argued with stewards over their dealings with some fans but there have been many instances where I have fully agreed with Stewards throwing certain fans out. A lot of our fans, particularly the young fans, seem to just be there to start something off with stewards. I've stood at a lot of games aswell but if your told to sit down a couple of times then your just going to have to do what they say. Its not like they are going to change their minds. We are all there to watch the game, not to get chucked out. But everyone cant seem to understand that. The youngsters seem to take great delight in arguing, goading and baiting the stewards. Its no wonder that they are getting chucked out and its embarassing that its happening every away game. Its even more embarassing that these people who have spent a fortune travelling to the game are only getting to see a part of the game when all they had to do was shut their mouths and just get on with the fact that the stewards are arseholes and not going to change their minds. You can slag off the stewards all you like but at some point fans are going to have to change the way they act. Yesterday was a prime example. Granted the steward was way out of line with what he did, but what is he supposed to do when he was constantly getting abuse from them all. Everyone has their breaking point and I would challenge everyone of you to put yourself in his shoes and not react the way he did. I think everyone knows that the boy that it happened to has a fair mouth on him and there has been many occassions where he has been out of order with some of the abuse he has given. He was told many times to sit down but never once did. Why not just shut up, sit down and watch the game like he came to do? Now I know that I'm now going to get dogs abuse for all this but this can't keep happening every week. Stewarding around the country needs changed and they do spoil an enjoyable day out but our fans are also going to have to change if they want this situation to get any better.
    11 points
  2. Brave post. Your correct. I've never been chucked out, and never will. I can manage it. One steward, 'touches' (snigger) one fan. Everyone goes on about what the steward did wrong. Why is everyone kidding themselves? Your supposed to sit. That's the rules. The steward was quite clearly a mouth breather, you could tell because he's fat and wearing an orange jacket with 'Event Security' on the back. Do what you want, like anything you want, but please face up to the consequences of your actions. When I drink before a game, I go, knowing that no matter how much I don't like the rule, that I can get turned away at the gate, with no refund, for being under the influence. Stewards are diks, doormen are diks, call centers are a ***** way to conduct business, immigration is out of hand, money is king, burds hate me, nothing is built to last these days, everything is over priced, we're all under paid, my granny is dead, your granny is dead, Jade Goodie is dead, R & B is here to stay, Israel is too, life is unfair, Man U always win, Jez Clarkson is famous, and Odhiambo is never going to try. These are all facts of life, that we know about, failure to accept these facts will result in an uphill battle throughout life.
    8 points
  3. What would this achieve? i go to the games to follow and cheer on caley, bad stewarding has nothing to do with following my team.
    3 points
  4. Great post from Caleytillidie. The thing is, rules is rules and where they are silly rules you need to apply a bit of commonsense in judging how far you can go in breaking the rules. Where stewards are inflexible, rude and aggressive, then it is best to sit down and watch the game. Goading them and getting thrown out is not clever. Having said that there have clearly been times where the behaviour of the stewards is worse than that of the fans they are dealing with and if they are out of order it is perfectly legitimate to complain. But for me, the problem is not so much the stewards but the rules they are required to enforce. Requiring fans to sit is a nonsense. We are left with the legacy of a massive over-reaction to the dreadful tragedy at Hillsborough which, in itself, was caused by a set of circumstances which were completely avoidable. The physical presence of seats prevents the kind of crowd surges which were common in the "good old days" but these could easily have been controlled by more barriers on the terraces and by sectioning off areas of terracing and controlling numbers in those areas. And in reality, the crowd surges rarely caused injury beyond minor scalding from a cup of spilled Bovril. With seats in place, standing does not represent a risk and therefore there is no good reason why people should not stand provided that they are not standing in front of others who wish to sit. If fans at the back wish to stand or jump up and down then they should be allowed to do so. As far as safety is concerned, the seating actually introduces greater risk in my view. Everyone is now channelled into often steep stair cases in order to exit the grounds and one person tripping could cause a significant incident. With the old terracing you descended on a wider front. The terraces had other advantages. Those who wanted to sing could group together far more easily with the result that there was better atmosphere in the grounds. It was also more social as you could move around to speak with mates you might have spotted in the crowd. And the stewards? What stewards? There was no need for stewards on the terracing because there were no silly rules to enforce. Their role was simply to stop folk getting on to the pitch If we want to get the soul back into British football it is time to put Hillsborough well and trully in the past and apply a bit of common sense at last. Bring back the terracing and bring it back soon whilst I am still physically capable of standing for 90 minutes.
    2 points
  5. 2 points
  6. He was a terrific player for ICT on our march up the leagues. Wish him all the best on what he decides to do next
    1 point
  7. "you're well g@y but you're quite funny" Its funny. I thought on CTO he is rather amusing, unlike in real life. Must be a keyboard.
    1 point
  8. Toronto FC (and MLS) allows standing in "designated supporters sections". Basically for TFC that's the whole of the South Stand, 1 section in the main stand, and as of this year the North Stand as well (not sure if its all or just part). They also turn a bit of a blind eye to standing in sections of the main stand and east stand adjoining the defined supporters sections. Other sections (normal seats) have a no standing policy that is enforced. I have had a seat in the South Stand for each of the last 4 seasons and will be there again for Season 5 ..... In all 5 seasons, I dont think I have actually sat in my seat for more than a few minutes at half-time in most games !!! In general, the stewards at BMO Field are excellent. Dont get me wrong, there have been issues, usually with supporters from other sections trying to get into the supporters sections because of the raucous reputation that TFC fans in those sections have, but representatives of the supporters groups regularly talk to the club and get them ironed out. The club do also let the supporters groups have a degree of self-policing authority and it works .... Seems like TFC have 3 levels of stewarding. Level 1 is "Guest Services" which is who most of us see at every game. They direct folk to their seats, help those who might not know where their seats are, and generally make sure that while allowed to stand you are not misbehaving or standing on top of the seats etc. they exert a bit of control, but their role seems to be more of an 'assistance' function. Its usually the same guest services people at your section for every game and you develop a rapport with them that allows both sides to behave normally towards each other .... Level 2 is "security" and they are the ones that come in and talk to people or drag them out if needed. I guess 'guest services' call in these guys as and when they need to and although I have seen them be heavy handed at times, its usually because someone deserves it. Level 3 - which is one you dont want to encounter - is the cops. They come in, grab you, and take you to jail, no questions asked. Security call them in, or sometimes they wade in themselves if something is thrown or there is a fight etc. Cops over here carry guns and Tasers so you dont argue ! It seems to me that Scottish football has forgotten about "Level 1" stewarding and moved directly to "Level 2". Good stewards do not need to be ****holes, good stewards can hold a conversation with you on the same level and achieve a far more consistent and better result for all concerned. Not sure about boycotts but as fans we should be protesting the erosion of our "matchday experience". How you are treated while watching the game is just as important a factor in deciding to go to a match for some people as the actual game itself. The last game I went to at the TCS was an eye opener for me. I posted it here at the time, but the atmosphere was the flattest I have ever experienced. People around me who I had been coming to games with for years before I emigrated, and who were once quite vocal in their support of the team, and jovial slagging of the opposition, were quite literally now sitting on their hands, scared to make any wrong move for fear of ejection or being on the receiving end of an FBO. That is not enjoyment ... that becomes a chore, and chores are something you eventually find a way to get out of !
    1 point
  9. I kinda got the impression when Dundee went into Administration that they (Dundee FC) felt it was unnecessary and forced upon them by HMRC...in other words, they felt they had the debt under control. If that was the case then I wouldn't have expected to see so many of the smaller debts and it only serves as a sign that things were far more desperate than they made out. Granted, we don't know how old these debts are or how long they have been running....many could be 30 day credit agreements from suppliers, but if they are then it indicates that even with administration pending they were continuing to run up debt. Sorry, but I don't care who the administrator was or how well respected he might be, but if you are overseeing a business that is in administration then continuing to run it at a loss is not ensuring that creditors are going to get the best possible deal. What's more, I fail to see how running at a loss can be considered "ensuring viability". I think you are partially correct about how others might have reacted if you had "taken your punishment". The victim mentality that has emanated from Dens Park since day one has done the club few favours. For me, what's done most harm is that more could/should have been done by Dundee FC to ensure creditors were better treated. Doesn't matter how many players you cut from the squad or how you skirted the transfer embargo to bring in trialists...the fact is their was room for further cuts, and cuts that would not only have brought the club into break even but might have actually seen it make a few quid....money that could have gone to the people who were due more than 6p in the pound. What's more, the footballers would have been guaranteed their money at some point under the league rules in regards to paying footballing debt. Instead, Dundee FC have effectively held these players and paid them from the pot that should have been earmarked for the creditors. They got into the mess they are in by putting performance on the park ahead of business performance, learned nothing, and continued to do the same whilst in administration....instead of paying what they couldn't afford to win the league, they have been paying what they couldn't afford to avoid relegation.....that's giving the 2 fingers to the 25 point deduction as far as I am concerned. We've had this discussion before, Dundee FC were signed up to the rules as a member of the SFL/SFA and made little or no moves to change the situation prior to going into administration so don't have much room for complaint when they are held to account by it. Now that it looks like you are coming out the other side, it will be interesting to see if you continue to fight for a change to the system. If I'm honest, it's probably the fact that there's few signs that lessons were learned the first time round, and even fewer are being learned/taken on board this time round. Performance on the pitch continues to be put ahead of all else and even throughout administration this has been to the cost of others. The fact that other clubs will have witnessed it all and seen Dundee FC come out the other side with barely a scratch does little to deter them from doing the same....in fact, being able to wipe out the vast majority of your debt whilst maintaining a competitive squad and overcoming a 25 point deficit could almost be seen as encouragement for others to continue taking the risks they do with the finances.
    1 point
  10. This is the main problem, we're not allowed to stand. Does it not go back to the Taylor report and Hillsborough? I think it's like our laws on Marley's special herb where, depending on the officer who catches you (and what music their into), you will get treated differently, even though it's against the rules all the same. My mate told me this, I wouldn't know for sure though..... As I've pointed out numerous times, "you must sit" is an SPL directive, not law. You just have to go to Murrayfield for a Rugby Match or to a stadium concert to see thousands of people standing without issue and you don't see people there being harassed and huckled out of the ground by the stewards. The law states that any stadium with a capacity greater than 10,000 should be all seated and that anyone admitted to the stadium must receive a ticket for an allocated seat, it says nothing about you having to remain seated. The Taylor Report recommended all seater stadiums as a means of controlling numbers in stadiums and preventing crowd rushes/surges. It was not designed to stop people from enjoying the game. The problem is, getting into a tussle with the Stewards is not going to change anything. It's the SPL that need to alter or scrap their "You must sit" policies. Clubs are quick to hide behind the "SPL Rules, Sorry" line, but ultimately they are the ones with the power to change/scrap the SPL rules...not the stewards or police. It is the clubs that we should be putting pressure on to have things changed, not just at their own grounds but across the entire league. Boycotting games is pointless unless you first make a proper case for what you want and why you are doing it, and even then, you have to make sure you are boycotting clubs who are not in support of your proposals. It could easily be that whilst we may not have the same level of issue with our own stewards, the club itself supports the SPL rules on sitting down...whilst St Mirren could be against the SPL rules on sitting but have a match commander who applies them to the letter. I think people have a fair point about how they are treated etc, but I also find it a bit cringworthy when I see/hear how they handle themselves when they get in to a situation. Teenagers who are pissed up to the eyeballs getting into the face of Stewards and, on occasion, deliberately setting out to wind them up doesn't do anyone any favours and gives them an easy excuse to dismiss any complaint. What's more, when it's the same people who seem to be in the thick of it time and again then, rightly or wrongly, you get yourself the label of being a troublemaker and again, give them an easy excuse to dismiss any complaint. Not saying fans have to accept the situation, but they do need to be a bit smarter in how they handle things.
    1 point
  11. Most of the time that I was standing up was because the guy in front of me was standing up.I'm certainly not going to pay ?20 to sit down and look at the back of jacket...I can do that at home for nothing and not spend most of the day traveling to do it either. Stewards do get dog abuse from some fans but they shouldn't react the way they did. Those kinds of actions can cause trouble. When taking on a job like you have to be very thick skinned indeed and if you aren't you shouldn't be in the job.
    1 point
  12. Im guessing it's the same wee **** that is always at St. Mirren and Morton with his clipboard thinking he is so important standing at the bottom of the stand pointing at people to be thrown out;. He is an arse of the highest order. Everyone should email St. Mirren about this. It has become beyond a joke and the over aggressive stewarding only creates problems and raises tensions. At Hearts the stewards stand at the bottom of the stand and just leave the fans to have a good time and there is never a problem and it is viewed by most as the best away day. This used to be the case at Hibs as well but that seems to have changed. Not once in the many games I have been to abraod are the stewards like this, they keep out of the way and let the fans enjoy themsleves and I guess only get involved if there is serious trouble. I'm just sick of it here and it really puts me off going to away game, Hibs is a game I would never normally miss but I'm having second thought about going after last time as it just ruins the whole day out. The SPL keep going on about improving fan experience and raising crowds, well this is one way to start.
    1 point
  13. TheKnowledge, yer post sure made me laugh out loud and of course you are correct in that the heavy handed authoritarian stewards will always win out,hugely frustrating as it is and happens everywhere to one degree or another, our own fine examples on both sides of Sandeman street being amongst the worst in the country and I watched Raith fans getting ejected for enjoying themselves and trying to create an atmosphere on Saturday. I consider myself law abiding,with self control and as such I used to go along and watch quite a lot of games as a neutral but coupled with cost, an unsavoury incident at TCS a few seasons back means i no longer tolerate being treated with disdain as a paying customer, so chose to spend my disposable elsewhere and were it not for a long and engrained loyalty would have long since ceased to attend football in Scotland at all.
    1 point
  14. 1 point
  15. County have nosedived spectacularly since their heady days of last season. Thrashing us early in the season, running us close before wilting and a great Scottish Cup run, it's all taken it's toll on the poor wee souls' They really are a mess at the moment, and if they are not careful, the next division down beckons.
    1 point
  16. Great Post Sir and I agree with you in its entirety so you have been green dotted Can't help but think i'd be looking at a serious amount of red if it had been my post though, but thats not the issue All seater stadia are here to stay within top flight football in the UK and being a fan who endured outdated and dangerous grounds in the 80's and early 90's i welcome watching my football in modern safer environments and if that means sitting for the majority of the game well so be it One thing I will say though is that every time this sort of thread raises its head, IHE appears to have been ejected or in his words close to have been ejected Finally you have to remember that anyone who is employed as a steward is more than likely to be of extremely low intellect and probably more so coming from Paisley dougal
    0 points
  17. Who are the SPL? They are the directors of every member club of that league. These are the people who need to be lobbyed to make change. Maybe the time has come to start that lobbying. Maybe the time has come for all fans of all clubs to get together and show protest at a rule that only applies in one league in Scotland. Greater stadiums with greater crowds do not have these problems.
    0 points
  18. I though that I would start off yet another thread - mainly becos I wanted to respond to davie and make my own statement but also co the Match thread should be about on the pitch comments only. davie posted: Thanks for this. It was my son who was ejected from the ground after being assaulted by that steward. What he actually said was that he was "sick of being treated like a f*cking animal" by said steward who then told him "don't f*cking swear at me". This man kicked him in the left shin, kinda sore when he was wearing steel toe caps. Boy was then hauled out by the neck. He spoke to the local Polis and requested that they take his details, which they refused to do. He was told "just get back on the train home". Boy, like his mates is no innocent, no shrinking violet. I've no doubt he was as gobby as usual but this response from persons supposing to keep public order is utterly, utterly unacceptable. I was in two minds as to going to the game or not, but I'm glad I didn't. I would have got out of hand, as seems to have nearly happened with a lot of fellow fans. On a serious note, this has to stop. If any of you who saw this are willing, could you pm me with details and indicated as to whether or not you are happy to be identified. If you are not, I will respect your confidentiality. I'll be on to St. Mirren tomorrow, and this man will be punished. I'll make sure of that. On a wider note, this seems to be getting worse across the board. As some of you know, I was chucked out of Parkhead earlier this season - didn't even get a reply to my complaint. Fans on forums across the country seem to have a weekly thread about being harrassed, bullied, intimidated and occasionally assaulted by these self appointed control freaks. Maybe time to do something collective about this. I was also on the point of eviction again yesterday and some of the comments made to me should be shared. I received a "final warning" just before half time as I was again accused of "inciting others to stand" - again I would have said that I was merely trying to support my team, encourage others to join in and create an away day atmosphere. For the first part of the second half I decided to stay seated for the most - only standing up when others started a chant and sitting down immediately afterwards or when ICT attacked or others in front of me stood up - I was further "cautioned" but on both occasions others were standing up blocking my view. I then started of the Bridge and castle chant and immediately the supervisor with the clipboard rushed in to action. At the exit gate I asked for the reasons for my eviction and stated my actual perceived case. Both the stewards appeared to wholly appreciate what I was saying and stated that they were simply following instructions from the Match Commander and following the rules - which they both agreed were unfair. They both also stated that the evictions have increased in recent weeks as their previous figures were low !! A passing copper joined in the discussion and allowed me to return to my seat, radioing in his rationale. To be honest - it is really beginning to mar the away day experience - and it is feckin Easter Road next !!
    -1 points


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