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Showing content with the highest reputation on 12/21/2017 in all areas

  1. 1 point
    I'll do what I can to make the meeting open/available to those unable to attend in person. I've also contacted Supporters Direct Scotland to try and ascertain what their understanding is of things, whether the advice (if any) they have been given has been provided from a position of having all the information and whether or not they can offer any advice/guidance to the members to move things forward. I await their response.
  2. 1 point
    From the AGM it was generally agreed that Tulloch had provided in the region of £6,500,000 of "value" to the club over the years (not including any interest). I've not done the exact sums, but it was surmised that they had received approx £2,000,000 in rental income over the years....there's also been £300k of rent arrears written off and no rental for the past 12 months. That gives a net position of about £5,000,000 that Tullochs "paid" for the stadium & leases since 2001. The gift that has just been provided means the club will save 76 years worth of rent at £205,000 plus they asset has been valued at £2,300,000....total £17,880,000. Club will have £30k rent to pay per year (£15k to Common Good Fund & £15k for Car Parks)....over 76 years (and on the assumption we may have the car parks that long or need to pay for an alternative at similar rate if they are developed) that's a £2,280,000......the net "gift" value comes out at £15,600,000....on top of the £5,000,000 net investment by Tullochs from the last paragraph. Whichever way you want to cut it....that's £20,000,000 to the good for ICTFC....and I fail to see how anyone can continue to paint Tulloch as the bad guys. Some of you have been around this forum long enough to know that I did a lot of digging and questioning over the whole stadium ownership/lease deals for a number of years because I wanted to ensure that the debt would never come back to haunt the club. You may also recall that I made a statement (it may still be on this forum somewhere) that whilst I could not share information that I had been shown in confidence, I was happy to stick my neck out and state that the club's interests were being looked after and that the debt would not come back to haunt us. So this is as huge for me personally as it is for the club because a lot of people have questioned my credibility over the years as a result of that. Finally (for now at least...lol)....the work to bring the stadium ownership back to the club was started a long time ago and the offer was made public 12 months ago....so whilst the current board may have been the ones to finally sign off on it, credit has to be given to the previous Chairman and Board as they are actually the ones that made it even remotely likely or possible.
  3. 1 point
    MJ.... have you ever considered the alternative to the Tulloch involvement? What would you propose should have been done instead, if the Tulloch deal really was that awful? It strikes me that you are complaining about your free lunch, to which the alternative was starvation, because someone has asked you to wash the plates.
  4. 1 point
    certainly no axe to grind Charles. my only problem lies with motive. Too many believe the club was saved for football/ community reasons whilst the real reason was business / personal profit disguised by complicated smoke screens over the years. Why not be upfront and transparent (the new "in word").
  5. 1 point
    That is my understanding of the rules. What's more, there was an uncontested & accepted motion from the floor at the AGM for an EGM at the earliest opportunity. I'll comment on your second question at the end. Caleytrue, you are the same as the vast majority of fans....and that is entirely ok. Football should be about turning up on a Saturday (or whatever other day TV or ridiculous winter midweek fixtures may dictate) to cheer on your team with friends, family etc....then enjoy the post match analysis when you get home, back to the pub and/or online here or wherever you might partake of a bit of social media chatter. A Supporters Society, such as CJT, is a "Community Benefit" organisation. As the name suggests, it exists to serve the community (made up of fans, club etc) and not (directly) the individual interests of it's members. One of the listed objectives in the rules is to ensure that the club operates with good governance and that the club board looks after the fans, club's and community's interests.....just the same as any other rights/shareholder can/should do for themselves and the club. They (CJT) have a duty to communicate with the community (and not just their members). That should, in an ideal world, mostly be about letting people know everything is fine, but it is also needed when it's necessary to gather fan opinion or when some form of action is needed.....good or bad. Beyond that, CJT also carry within their constitution the authority to strengthen their position in regards to the operation and ownership of the club and, in that regard, may seek to undertake fundraising for the purchase of shares, running campaigns, backing initiatives/projects etc. Why join if your interests are being looked after regardless? To do as you have said and support those who are actively working towards those ends, to ensure that those who represent the organisation (and your interests) operate with good governance and to be in a position to take part in any decision making that may be required from time to time. The voting right of CJT actually sits at slightly above 10%. In addition to the 10% voting right attached to the shares transferred from the old Members Club, they have purchased additional shares over the years....so they have been working to grow their influence, although not so much in the last 5 years or so. In regards to the above two quoted posts.....Supporters Direct (Scotland) are the umbrella organisation for Supporters Trusts. They used to have a primary remit for helping club's fans set up their own trusts, and were very successful in doing so. That remit has since shifted to one where their primary aim is helping Supporters Trust that are looking to obtain major stake in/ownership of their clubs. Aside from the legislative inclusions that come with being registered as an Industrial and Provident Society, there is within CJT's rules, articles which require us to adhere to some of the guidelines and principles laid down by Supporters Direct. It is not their (Supporters Direct) job to be running our, on anyone else's, Supporters Trust and I have concerns over the advice they (CJT) claim they are getting. It's either completely wrong, or not based on being given all the facts. For that reason I will be making contact with Supporters Direct in due course to seek some clarity from them....although, the last time they were contacted about claims of advice they were giving to CJT, they said they had no knowledge of working with them on anything! Supporters Direct Scotland website - http://www.supporters-direct.scot/ Again I will cover the previous two quotes in single response....latter first. Financial Records ARE up to date as Hearach says. This can be seen on the FCA register at https://mutuals.fsa.gov.uk/SocietyDetails.aspx?Number=2665&Suffix=RS The ones for which the society was almost struck off were brought up to date in 2013 (again, that can corroborated on the above link)....so the claim by CJT would appear to be that it has taken over 4 years to get the rules sorted and submitted? The error on the rules (and I know as I dealt with it at the time) were minimal. Supporters Direct had failed to provide the final draft and one of the rules wasn't pertinent to our setup and there was some minor issue with numbering. These were sorted and cleared by me with both the FSA/FCA and Supporters Direct for re-submitting. It was then left in the hands of others on the board, who were also working on the returns, to get that done. Even if you accept the refusal to register the rule change without completion of the returns (and I don't*) then it could/should have been done anytime after the end of April 2013. *I disagreed with this at the time (I was on the board then), I saw no documentation to support this at the time and I resigned due to having no support from the wider board in getting it sorted at the time. I hold pertinent qualifications and worked as a compliance auditor responsible for upholding FSA rules; so have an understanding of their workings. I agree that what's most important now is moving things forward, but I feel that people need an understanding of how we have arrived where we are so we can learn from it and make the best decisions for tidying up and advancing the society. I've consciously not included or attached individual names to anything I have said because this is not personal and, as a board, they have joint and several liability...whilst the board is, and should be, democratic; if an individual board member believes that fundamental errors exist and they accept that and do nothing, then they are as culpable as the rest. It is apparent that current (and recently resigned) board members refuse/d to communicate openly with the wider member base and fans (as a community benefit society their responsibility is not only to the members). In fact, I had the first communication I've had in months from one of the board members by email during the last week and it stated that they would not be getting into any public discussions...either at meetings or online...which is unacceptable! I am fully aware of the personal circumstances of a couple of the current CJT board and have every sympathy, but this isn't a matter that can't be allowed to drag on. if the society was not in the state it was then there would be other board members to pick up and run with things, but there's not. There remains a single board member who only joined the board at the recent AGM and who will have had no time to get up to speed on anything. If there is no communication from the CJT board in the near future as to when the EGM will be and/or how matters are to be moved on, then I am willing to arrange a venue and time for an open fans meeting (if that's what people want) where options (as to how things are taken forward) can be discussed.
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