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The way wythank15 talks about Hughes you'd think he was the only ICT manager that had ever lost good players from his side and had budgetary constraints. Also worth remembering that our good form earlier in the season came with a front two of Baird and Bell who not only buzzed about the front line to create and take chances (less so in Bairds case!) but both did a power of work defending from the front which made us a lot more difficult to beat.

The stuff about Harper being deliberately subbed off is typical of our club. We are an utter shambles, on and off the park. Someone said that if we go down the club will disintegrate, it's already disintegrating. The guys in charge have no idea what they are doing - Muirfield Mills are a group of ex-pats who wanted to stick some money into local sport and now they are running the club - they don't know what they are doing. I've been told a few things about the shambolic organisation of the club and it all rings true. We have a load of utter amateurs trying to administer the club, from the teamsheets, to the commercial side, to the finances, to player recruitment, to the pitch. A few years back someone told me that a former board member said about Terry Butcher "we've created a monster!" because he basically ran the club, ran the playing side, ran the scouting, did a huge amount of media. Since he left things have slipped - the success of the Hughes era (with Butchers players) hid it for a couple of years but once that fell away there was no disguising it. Robbo is a positive guy but he's not managed to take us from a good position a couple of months ago to anywhere near where we need to be. If we stay up, which I think is doubtful, we need to try, somehow, to get an investor in who can back us for two seasons to clear out the playing squad, employ a manager who can recruit players of value and develop those we need to keep and give the club some organisation. Sadly, it's doubtful we'll get any of that.

Without being pendant in residence boom boom my response to your points are as follows: Butcher left, we did not finish second nor did we win a cup and we lost Andrew Shinnie who was a stand out for us. I'm glad you accept that losing your best players and injuries can have a deleterious effect on the team, which relates to point 3. With no out ball (Watkins had left and Doran was injured) an aimless hoof up the park would have achieved little so yes, the players at the back had difficulties as a direct result of losing your quickest forward and having another quick player injured. The reason why JH left was over the very issue you raise, trying to clarify the budget. I accept your point about Hughes recruitment but remember it wasn't Butcher who identified the bargains brought to the club from down south. The fact is we have never had enough money to buy established front men, they cost too much, which is why we have always gone for players from the lower leagues or strikers who have had injury problems or fallen out of favour or guys who can't find another club we were soooo fortunate to get Marley Watkins who could convert from being a winger to a very effective centre. I do not expect in my lifetime to experience the highs of JH's reign, he turned us into a proper football team and the board turned us into a laughing stock in one season, quite an achievement. You can continue to have a downer on JH if you like but he will remain our most successful Manager long after we have departed this life.

Makes the season more interesting that we`re trying to get into both play-offs!

Brechin won’t save us from the playoffs. The real worry for me is that back to back wins for Dumbarton creates the feeling of a winning run for them, increasing confidence and leading to better performances in games that they may not have been expected to pick up points in. We, on the other hand, do not appear to know where our next points are coming from. We need to win the game with Brechin and the two with Dumbarton. That would take us to 39 points. The most points that has ended up in the playoff is 42. I’m not sure where any other points are coming from unless we find a serious upturn in form.

I never thought it was possible but so far this seasons been far more boring and depressing than last. If we fall to the playoffs I don't believe we are strong enough to beat the other lot

The way wyrhank 15 talks about Hughes you'd think he was Hughes.

I don't mind losing. Losing is a part of life. What I won't accept is player who represent my club as employees, failing to give their all on the pitch. Last night, there were plenty of them. This is unacceptable, surely Robbo can see the players hiding. I would rather see 11 youth players giving their all and snapping into tackles, than mercenaries floating about the pitch, stealing a wage.

We had been as high as second in the league and reached the league cup semi final in the season that Butcher left. There’s no telling how that could have finished if Butcher had stayed. Whilst you can’t ignore losing quality players, and the injuries that occurred, the fact remains is that Hughes recruitment was generally poor. You can only sign what is available, but maybe it’s better to keep some of the budget rather than sign lots and lots of midfielders, when we were clearly still short in both defence and attack. I understand that. The trouble is we tended to hurt ourselves when we had the ball by trying to retain possession too close to our own goal and then making a mistake. That season, we weren’t generally ekeing out points, we were trying to hold onto a lead and often failing. I don’t dismiss the winning 4 out of 5, I am just saying that it made the season look better than it probably was. Surely an experienced manager would have clarified the budget? The style could have been successful for years to come, but only with the right players. I would question Hughes’ ability to find and recruit those players.

Kingsmills I will be very gentle and suggest you wrote the above whilst not thinking. Listen, I loved watching the football played by Pele's teams and he had to rebuild several times during his tenure but he wasn't competing every week in the SPL nor in national cup finals and sadly he never won the Championship though I contend that JR won it with his team. As for Yogi being arrogant, I worked beside a lad who played out in the middle east, his son was captain of Falkirk's under 18's and he raved about Yogi as a person, a coach and a Manager, arrogance was never mentioned as one of his traits. We all have a bit of ego, it's what protects us from the world but arrogant? not in my book. As you can see from my numerous posts I have too much time on my hands at the moment, please excuse my fulminations.

Sussed oh dear.

Mind you, If Brechin can get their first win of the season on Saturday, AND we get a win at Arab central, that would be a healthy gap! Long shot I know but....

That boat sailed a couple of months ago.

och come on kingsmills every manager needs a strong chairman who can say no. the problem was we had a very weak one who thought he was the only one capable of making decisions. Pele unfortunately had too many demons to get that accolade.

Thank goodness for Brechin !

There is no doubting that Yogi had great success but we are now paying the price for his arrogant shortcomings in other respects. In my view, all things considered and in relative terms, our most successful manager was Steve Paterson.

IMO its good to see someone supporting our most successful manager

Took about 5 seconds to find Caley 1-0 Nairn County in 1889 in the Qualifying Cup, followed by 10-0 after a Nairn protest.

The Highland League was formed in 1893. In addition to Thistle and Caley, Clach and Forres were founder members who are still playing.

Winning and glory is one thing which can never be guaranteed. However, I don't think it's unreasonable even for loyal fans to expect some degree of organisation and planning in the boardroom and a degree of commitment on the pitch. I am unhappy with the state of affairs at our club at the moment. Am I too a glory hunter who should go and 'support one of the top four in the premier' ?

Could not get down for tickets today but plan to go tomorrow but am really struggling to find enthusiasm for the final with all the recent called off games it feels like closed season i dont think i can remember players names & numbers

Caley squad okay but without a real scorer to me playoff this season is impossible to say, for example, we had someone who could score often like Billy Mckay we would probably be in top place now or second and I am not saying Billy would come back since I doubt Caley could afford him . Whenever I used to do a goal prediction for Caley when Billy played I will be honest I was wrong a lot of the times I would think he would score 1 then he did 2 . Even in the last match Caley played if they had real scorer they would had won. Ridgers the Goalkeeper I will be fair to me he's doing a incredible job overall.

Hawkeye, I've tried to explain this before on this forum but some just don't see it. The reason for the heavy defeats in the early days was because JH completely changed the style of play ie out from the back. I remember the horror show against Dundee Utd in the SC where we gifted them a 3 goal lead at home all self inflicted but this was the players trying to adapt to the new way of playing. Had we not changed we would never have gotten 3rd in the league and won the cup. In the final season not only had we lost good players we had a horrendous injury list hence the reason for emergency signings and you can only sign what is available at the time according to your budget. The performance against Astra who were no mugs was one of the most mature i have seen from an ICT side and only a goalkeeping error from OFW caused us to lose that match. You may not have liked JH's style but while you have the ball the opposition cannot hurt you which is why we eked out points when we had no right to do so. I don't know why you dismiss winning 4 out of 5 after the split, they all count. As regards the treatment of Raven, JH clearly believed he could free up wages to invest in one or two players to make the team stronger, whilst I liked DR as a player and a person, every player comes to the end and it is the Manager's prerogative to decide who stays and who goes for the good of the club. Football is a business like any other even if the fans don't appreciate it, so I don't think it was shoddy, it was part of the football business. Hughes regarded the original budget plus the emergency signings as the budget for the following year, the board would only agree to the original budget, hence JH claimed his budget had been cut and the board claimed the budget had not changed. The sad part is that the system and style that JH inculcated in the squad could have been a successful template for many years to come but it was thrown over by the new inexperienced manager and the rest as they say is history.