IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER

I thought that Raven did OK against Cellic but what I fail to understand is why he is being picked to start and then hooked after an hour for Meekings. Can anyone explain the logic ??

Should Butcher not shoulder the blame ?

What car ?

Did you not watch Djebi Zade at Falkirk or Niculae at Midden ?

Fer fecks sake wummin - he played against feckin wee insects as a youngster, he cant spell Caledonian and he plays Charlie Christie alomgside Kaka which is all wrong tactically.

I would have said that it was very important to play our first team back four - especially after how they played on Saturday. I would even be considering playing Foran at the back. Reguero Meekings Foran Warren Shinnie,G. OTJ Draper McKay Oswell/Sutherland Polworth Pepper

Yip - just what we need is an untried teenage striker. Remind me as to why we signed Oswell ??

If he shows up well in training he may well get a game up front :lol:

Is it not quite simply a point that Tinkerville or on an amazing undefeated run. When we went on our away day spree it was great to watch as you simply did not expect to get beat.

And Shane Sutherland is also a "kid" and in my opinion shows more promise than Rory and that is what frustrates me about the manner in which Butcher is slowly but surely destroying his self confidence. I can understand an amateur like CaleyD falling for the training excuse but if Butcher has fallen fer it - as he appears to have - then heaven help us. I can remember training with Kenny McKenzie and he was ace at centre forward and Penman was superb in goals. Really good posts from Chris and Doofersgrandad who see it from a tactical and skill perspective. But the naricsisstic tendencies in Butcher will mean that he will play Shane wide forever.

The fire which produced red cards ??

A bit, yeah. I always really enjoy your match reports and the way you read our games, but I don't really think the tactics were the problem today, and although I broadly agree with you about Sutherland's and Raven's limitations, and also about the number of poor passes today, I can't really criticise Butcher for sticking with a line-up that has played some decent football and gone three games undefeated. We probably should have been more aggressive from the start today, but I'm guessing the manager is trying to instil a consistent philosophy of patient passing football rather than hopeful long balls.There were glimmers of this for fifteen minutes in the first half and in the final ten minutes of the game, but the biggest problem was that we met a team of naturally better players, many of whom had something to prove and so got stuck into us from the start. Today's performance might give Butcher the justification to bring in Meekings and Pepper, and I'd be very happy with that, but I hope that he does continue with the approach that the team has adopted so far this season, rather than making some knee-jerk reversion to packed defences and punted balls forward: we are going to have bad days no matter how we play. Wow that was sobering ? Good points but even Charlie Christie had a couple of clear "pops" at the tactics on ESPN. We simply sat back and allowed them to play and to dominate. We should have been pressing from the off and in their faces. I would defy anybody to tell me what roles were given out to Nick Ross and Draper in the first half - and we had front men coming back into midfield to gather the ball deep - how often did McKay and Shinnie do that. And how many times was Ross, in acres of space, ignored and Doran being constantly sought out in the old Hayes mould. And how many times did we find Shane, naturally pulling in to the middle and receiving the ball in the hole but invariably passing it astray or playing it backwards. The move leading up to the Shinnie miss said it all to me. Sutherland in a forward position, Doran on the overlap and a cross that McKay may well have tucked away had Shinnie not have got the first touch - now if we had played like that all day ?? And finally my gripe about King and Warren again is - what were they asked to do ? They looked soild recently because they played in a line and covered each other. It was almost as if King had been asked to "sweep" and for Warren to attack the balls - but that wasnt how Cellic played.

As stated previously it is wholly unfair to scapegoat one particular individual after yesterdays perfromance apart from Butcher who simply ballls it up. I am not a fan of Raven but I felt that he was solid enuff defensively yesterday but , again as many others, his distribution was poor but not the feckin worst. My "dilemna" is why Butcher appears to feel that he is a 60 minute man and takes on Meekings to replace him to give us more offensive movement. If that is the thinking then, particularly at home, Meekings should be on from the start. What is this absurd tactic doing to the confidence of either player. And if we are discussing King then Warren should bear some of that grief. How many times was King left as the only defender and where was Warren ?

i would love him too lose his oomph in that case and he can get lost!!!! Feck aff gudgie

Lizi - Butcher got rid of Munro and Tokely - just compare them with Raven and King - that is the feckin point - on top of all the other apparent "faults" apparently being more regularly pointed out by all the "armchair managers" on here.

Have faith - BELIEVE

200 to 300 plus Derek Riordan - gies a feckin shout next time as that sounds like a feckin party.

It was'nt me

Fer fecks sake Luke - the bottom line is that Butcher dumped Munro and Tokely who would have stayed here probably till the end of their feckin careers - that is a defensive partenrship that has been dismissed by the Messiah and most of us cannot figure out the logic. Bottom line is - TODAY - what combination would have been better ? And his persistence in how he plays Sutherland, McKay and Ross is becoming tedious.

SIMPLES - Play him as "sweeper" next time round and drop KIng.

Good feckin post.

So do I.

:cry: Oh my gawd how the feck can I deflect ma flight from Manchester to Arbroath ?

I have to say that I watched the game today with four people from Inverness who all supported Rangers but at least I could take off ma ICT shirt (becos of the searing heat) and earn some free Kilkenny at the Irish bars ?

Not going to read any of the previous posts but this is how I saw it : Positives / Excuses : Draper will play fer the shirt and so will Warren of the new boys - that is a goal difference of minus 2 rather than minus 4,5,6 or even 8. Pepper is one who will progress. It is still early days and perhaps some of the so called experienced newbies were taken aback by the experience. Perhaps "lessons" can be learned ?? CRITICISM: Neil Lennon must be laffing his feckin socks off at our predictability. His tactics tore us apart. Lets face it Butcher has till got the tactics, the selection and the formation WRONG. Why oh why would you ever put out a team at home to play a defensive 4-5-1 against Cellic and hold back - even Tinkervilee got the message to feckin press, feckin press and feckin press - we did the feckin usual against the Old Filth of losing goals at the feckin kick offs instaed of playing it ultra feckin tight - the goal at the start of the first half was ridiculous - and I wonder if ya noticed if we changed the feckin 1:1 marking at the next feckin corner kick. Why the feck play Raven for an hour and then put on Meekings ???????????????????????????? What the feck were Warren and King defending like in the first half - was Warren actually asked to play well in front ?????????????? Where the feck was Nick Ross supposed to be feckin playing - he made space time and time again but never got a pass and why was he played so feckin deep ???????????????? Why oh feckin why do we sacrifice Shane as we do - he clearly aint a winger and he constantly lost position by his natural instinct to go inside ???????????? What role was A Shiñnie played in today as he should have had far more an offensive role ???????????? What a shift and effort from McKay but what a feckin waste as well. I apologise to any happy clappers but if I (and others) as armchair managers can see these errors from game to game ???? Did Gavi have an Icelandic shirt on today - MORRISSON ?? Cant actually be fecked with the Smileys but what the feck was Esson doing at the second goal ?? And SORRY - but would it have been different with Tokely and Munro in centre defence and Draper and OTJ in front of them ??