CaleyD

Someone e.mail Alex MacLeod and tell him IHE's hacked his account :015:

I don't agree, but let's accept (for now) the funds haven't arrived. We still know that funds have been sent, and we know that Dinamo are happy enough that the deal has been agreed as they have touted the player as being theirs. ICT currently have two stories they are putting out there. 1. No agreement has been finalised as paperwork is not complete and player has not agreed to forego his % of the fee. 2. An Agreement has been reached, but they just haven't got the money yet. Who do you believe? The people who have given one story from the start and provided (some) documentary evidence that it's a done deal....or the people who remained silent for days and then started coming out with two conflicting stories? Even if you had reason to believe Dinamo were wrong, how do you explain the conflicting stories from ICT? Let's also not forget that this comes off the back of what seems like an endless string of rumours and stories since the Euros about whether Marius was for sale, wasn't for sale....the conflicting stories as to why he might or might not have been for sale...the fact we were told that his sale would be used to fund 3 or 4 players to strengthen the squad, followed by statements that even with the sale of Marius we wouldn't be bringing in quality/proven replacements as we couldn't afford it. Stories from a Major shareholder saying we had a ?500,000 hole in the finances caused by the presence of Niculae which were rebuked by the ex-chairman and played down by the current chairman...where is our current chairman, not heard a peep from him since he told us all that if we were still talking about the board in 6 months then he hadn't done his job, a statement he made over 3 months ago. If you go further back we have the situation whereby we were lead to believe that Marius wages were higher than they are and that they were being paid for (at least in part) by sponsorship, only for us to discover that no sponsorship was involved and that his wages were in fact being paid by the club but had been covered in full from a sale of shares. How on earth can people be expected to trust a club that has been found more than a little wanting when it comes to telling the fans anything, let alone the truth. If they "have nothing to hide" then come out and tell us what is going on. If you've fecked up, then you've fecked up, nobody is perfect....just don't try and spin it....aside from the fact they're extremely poor at spinning anything, if people know it's not the truth or the full story then you can be sure they'll start digging and in most cases the truth will out, and if it doesn't it always leaves that niggling doubt in the backs of heads the next time something doesn't appear to be all it's made out to be. Every time something happens, it's surrounded by so much chit of our own making that I find it harder and harder to believe that that those, who may have best intentions in mind, are in fact doing far more harm than good.

Alex, look at the evidence that is in front of you. Dinamo have reported that the transfer is 100% complete and have published documents to support that. An international Electronic Bank Transfer will generally arrive in the recipients account within 24 hours, sometimes this can take 2 days where there's large time difference between countries involved, and sometimes it can take only a few hours (Something I learned during my time working on improving the clearance systems for RBS). Whilst I couldn't swear to it 100% I would be confident in saying that the round stamp in the bottom right hand corner of the Bank Transfer document on the Dinamo site is a Bank of Scotland Stamp....it's certainly a receivers stamp (It's HBOS Practice to sign the stamp and write the reference number above it, something I learned during my time working a Halifax Agency). Dinamo published those images on 25th July, with that receivers stamp on them, meaning funds had reached the UK no later than last Friday. Aside from all that, if these were/are false documents then I'm sure the club would have come out and said so by now, or would have forced their removal from the Dinamo website. So I fail to see how ICT can claim that they aren't in receipt of payment. Plus you have the flip flopping between the excuse that they haven't got the funds and the fact that no agreement has been reached as Marius hasn't yet decided to forego the money he might have been due.

Alex....your skipping the part where ICT have agreed a fee with Dinamo, have invoiced them and are in receipt of a Bank Transfer. If, as they club seem to be saying now, they were only agreeing to the deal on the basis Marius was to forego his % of the fee then that should have been sorted before the club accepted any offer from Dinamo, Invoiced them and Received the funds. Failure to have done that is negligence on the part of ICT, whichever way you want to dress it up....any breach on the part of Marius is no longer part of the transfer agreement. You don't say "We'll agree the transfer, invoice you and get paid then sort out the details afterwards."....what you say is, "Lets sort out the details agree the transfer and then invoice you and get payment."

I'm kinda in two minds about this whole "fining clubs for discipline" thing. On one hand I think the fines are a joke and that clubs should be sanctioned more heavily and perhaps face points deductions for persistently finishing top of the discipline tables. What's a ?40,000 fine compared to hacking your way to an extra league place or two? On the other hand I don't think that the discipline tables carry as much credence as they should when you have so many jokers refereeing games in this country. Perhaps you can argue that it evens out over a season, but I'm not so sure.

Scarf looks great and the colours work well....this may be the only game I attend at TCS this season so I'll be making sure I get one :001:

As they say........ "If you don't lose goals then you can't lose games"

Wind the clock back 12 months to the time when news started leaking about the possible signing of Marius Niculae. It looked like the deal was going to stall on the subject of wages....then out of the blue we hear that Marius has agreed to a vastly decreased wage and the club had secured his signature. It's not beyond the realms of reasonable thought to suggest that in order to get his wage reduced to an affordable level they offered some kind of back end deal where he would get a percentage of any sell on fee, and it would effectively be a no-lose situation for the club....they secure the services of someone they would otherwise be unable to afford, and the player is driven to improve and do his best because he has a pay day riding on it. In fact, the wages agreed were such a good deal that had we kept Marius for his two years and not got a penny at the end then it could still have been considered a good bit of business. Whilst I agree that Grassa and the Board have to look after the best interests of the club, I don't think that extends to trying to screw people over....and as far as I can see that's exactly what they are trying to do. It sounds to me like ICT are trying to get smart at the 11th hour in order to make a few quid and they don't give a toss who the feck over in the process....and it seems to be happening with little regard to the damage being done to the clubs name. Let's face it, we could never afford a player of Niculaes calibre if it wasn't done on a loan basis or the basis that the player had the opportunity to make his money from sell on fees or whatever....is it any wonder we can't secure a half decent replacement? If you were looking for a club to go to on loan or on a reduced wage deal with "certain privileges", would you look twice at a club who are trying to screw the last person that trusted them in that regard? OK, so ICT might get what they want in this case (I don't think they will, but you never know) but at what cost? Even in business there's such a thing as good will, ask Sutherland, he's bought plenty of it from ICT over the years, but we are in the process of selling ours out for a few pieces of silver.....and the long term cost of that could be far higher than any of us imagine.

Working backwards on the figures...... We were told after Orion decided to go public on the scenario that the Investment by them covered the cost of Marius for the 2 year contract....and we know that investment figure to have been ?270,000. I would have thought he would have got some kind of signing fee, but perhaps he instead decided upon a "sell on" fee, which sounds like what the dispute could be over now we are actually looking to sell him. Even if you take the cost on a pro rata basis then divide the ?270,000 by 104 weeks and you get ?2307/week (plus change). We've been paying him less than 12 months, but we'll use that for simplicity...that means he has cost us ?135,000 So far we're up ?135,000. Money from Euros was in the region of ?50,000 I believe. Sale is 475,000 Euros after the 5% Solidarity Fee = ?375,000 That's ?560,000 in the bank. From here on it's plucking figures totally out of the air stuff................ Whether or not the club will end up having to pay Marius a % or whatever they are due him is yet to be seen (I think they will), and assuming it's not an insignificant amount since ICT seem reluctant then he could be due ?50,000 to ?75,000 from the sale??? That's still not a kick in the erse off ?500,000 for the better...and even if he did get some kind of signing on fee as well then it's still going to be over ?400,000 that ICT are better off.

Walking or Taxi :015:

Exactly, which is why he falls into the Solidarity Payment category and not the Training Compensation category. If that is the case, and I can't see any club doing such a thing, then we have to bare in mind a couple of things. 1. ICT agreed terms with Dinamo, invoiced them for payment and received it. 2. Marius has agreed terms with Dinamo. That's how any normal transfer goes. I'm no expert, but I would imagine one of the first questions any court or panel would ask ICT is "Why did you agree terms with Dinamo and invoice them for payment before you had concluded any outstanding issues with the player?"

It gets worse and worse.....first we had reports he was off to Germany, then news broke he was off to Dinamo, then we have a story that ICT were saying no fee had been agreed....and now they're saying they agreed a fee, but now they want Niculae to forego payment the club had agreed with him previously (contractually I would assume). I wonder what the story will be when we wake up tomorrow?

Your thinking of the Training Compensation Fee, Alex

Timeout!!!! Reedee, if you have "sources" then that's fine, you can choose whether or not you wish to reveal these sources or provide information to back up your claims or not. If you choose not to then people can only base their opinions on what they have in front of them, and at this moment in time there's no proof to suggest these documents are false....in fact, the legal implications of putting falsified documents on their website would stretch far beyond the value of signing Niculae and I very much doubt they'd be so stupid. Saying "I have Sources" over and over again proves nothing and only serves to clog up the conversation.

The documents showing the payment of the funds are still on the Dinamo site in case some haven't seen them and are wondering what we've been taking about. http://www.fcdinamo.ro/arhiva.php?arhiva=s...&stire=6228

I wouldn't be at all surprised if this is indeed the dispute, with perhaps ICT agreeing to accept 500,000 Euros thinking it was the transfer fee net of the deduction, or maybe not even being aware of this rule. We sent an invoice for 500,000, indicating that to be the net sum we expected to receive. This could also explain why on the Dinamo website when they published the documents they specifically pointed out that the mandatory 5% deduction had been applied. Why else would they point that out? "Ignorantia juris non excusat" The Regulations clearly state that the 5% is to be withheld from the agreed fee, not that the receiving club should pay a sum of 5% over and above the agreed fee. Even if the club were not aware of the fee then a simple check of the regulations or call to FIFA would have cleared it up in minutes (or even hours) instead of days. If I was Dinamo and I had the need to publish documents to prove the transfer was, as far as they could control, complete, then I too would want to explain any discrepancies in the documentation which might not be obvious to those reading them. Had I spoken Romanian then I might have been able to pick up on it sooner, but as it was I had to read 20 pages of a 40 page document on the subject to find the answer....had they not used the word "solidarity" in the text on their site which I managed to pick up on a search of FIFA articles....then I might still be looking :001:

Any chance that Niculae while away on personal business sorted out personal terms and now the club are having to finalise the fee. Has Niculae been in breach of contract? Can't see how the fee could be in dispute given the fact that Dinamo published the Invoice from the club for 500,000 Euros, a letter from the club to the same effect and a copy of the Bank Transfer sending the funds to ICT's Bank Account. We might not have any facts to show what the exact reasons for the delay are....but we do have some facts which put certain reasons/excuses in serious doubt.

Which means you can strike the "greedy agent" idea off the list of possible reasons for the delay. I have one overriding fear at the moment and that is the fact that Dinamo kicked off their season last night so if ICT are found to be negligent and having caused a delay which prevented the player from playing in that or any future games for his new club then they could find any profit they made from the sale heading straight back to Dinamo by way of compensation. I really hope the club aren't playing with fire, because despite my criticism of the board and Sutherland I don't want ICT to suffer any more than I think they already are as a result of incompetence.

I've been doing some digging in to the difference (25,000 Euros) between the fee invoiced by ICT and the amount paid by Dinamo as I thought that might have been the cause of the delay. However, it would appear that this is a statutory 5% "Solidarity Contribution"...extract from FIFA Regulations on the Status and Transfer of Players. This would suggest to me that based on the documents that were published on the Dinamo website that ICT have in fact received payment in full for the transfer of Marius.....so I can't see how this could be the cause of the delay.

I think the journalists missed out on a great opportunity for a top headline with this story. "Hissy Fit?"

I do think the younger guys will get their chances, but other than up front where we currently have no option, I would expect to see us starting the early games with players who are already a known quantity in the first team. All being well we can get off to a good start and Brewster will give more consideration to making earlier substitutions where the conditions allow and it won't be long before the likes of Sutherland are getting pitch time and integrating themselves into the first team and pushing for starts. We can't afford not to do this really, as the last thing we want to do is be facing injuries and having players who are still green having to come in under added pressure.

Likely...... Fraser Tokely - McGuire - Munro - Hastings Wilson - Cowie - Black - McBain Barrowman - McAllister Preffered..... Fraser Proctor - Tokely - Munro - Hastings Wilson - Black - McBain Cowie - Imrie Barrowman

Someone somewhere is playing funny beggers :023: Although, even by ICT standards the Spin Machine is lagging a little.....must be the credit crunch slowing things down!!!

I perhaps shouldn't have direct that at you as the point I am trying to make is that just because someone comes away with a line saying "everybody is really negative about" or "the majority of people on this site just moan" it doesn't mean that's actually the case. It also seems to have become the fashion to label anyone who dares to criticise anything as a moaner or as being negative regardless of whether they have backed up that view with reasoned argument or not. I was one of those defending Rory over the past couple of seasons as I too thought he had something to offer and was just short of stepping up...he still might. But their comes a time when you have to wonder just how long you can keep hoping for that and, as yet, we've not seen him perform with anything like the consistency needed for a first team starter....yet here we are with people saying he's going to score 10 goals next season, even Brewster seems to have lost the plot and is touting him as the possible main man for the coming season....again, he might be, and I hope he does....but we've seen no evidence whatsoever that he is capable of it. You'll get those who will argue that he's bagged a load of goals in pre-season...but he's done that in the past and he's knocked them in left right and centre for the reserves...he never once showed that kind of form in the chances he was given in the first team...nothing like it, so it proves nothing and the concerns people have shown on this thread are wholly justified. That's not to say he won't step up to the plate and bang in 10+ goals, there's just nothing to show that we should be relying on that and I think Brewster is playing a very dangerous game, and could do both the player and the team a lot of damage if it doesn't pan out. As to booing him at games....I don't condone that, and I do think it's very likely counter productive, but those who boo him at games are necessarily the same people who are being critical on the forum so to tar them all with the same brush is out of order IMO.

Outbound - 08:42 gets you in at 10:43 - 10:44 gets you in at 12:59 - 12:19 gets you in at 14:31 Inbound - 17:15 (if you can fly from the game) gets you home at 19:34 - 18:21 gets you home at 20:31 Looks like the cost is ?26 return as the cheapo fairs are only available on trains not suitable unless you want to get there at 8 in the morning and leave at 10 at night.