CaleyD

Some people get all the luck!!!

The biggest ever loss to this club was David Sutherland. Some people disliked him for various reasons, but you at least knew where you stood and we never witnessed any of the BS we're seeing now

I'd far rather those responsible just took notice of the reaction of those around them and let the whole idea of booing players during warm-up etc drop than it become necessary for the club/stewards to get involved.

Not at the last couple of games, but if people keep behaving like idiots then the rest of us will know where to point the finger.

Ground regulations actually do state that any noise likely to cause confusion, annoyance or a nuisance is not permitted.....so technically there is a rule against it if you wanted to be pedantic.

I hope you like Cherries :015:

I think "played well" is pushing things a little, but we certainly showed the determination to dig in and grind out a result once we got our nose in front. I'll take the same again if it means another result. Agreed...he will have a point to prove after the way he was treated there. Probably more likely to see him make an appearance in this one....even though he was kitted for the match against St Mirren he was never going to take himself on (unless things were looking desperate) given the fact he would still have been suffering the effects of being under anesthetic a couple of days before the game.

All valid comments...but as I just said on your other thread, it's all about communication. If the club keep tripping themselves up with half truths then they have to accept, or at least understand that conspiracies will arise and people will view it as if the club are trying to hide or cover-up something.

You may very well be on the right track, but if it was all as straight forward as that then why have the club created such a web of lies and half truths to cover up what has been going on. It's at the stage where the lies don't even fit with what we have been told previously. Everyone makes mistakes...that's life, but some people at the club need to realise that the club is bigger than them and if they have fecked up then they would respected far more for holding their hands up and admitting it than telling lie after lie after lie in an effort to cover their own butt and create even bigger problems. I do know that despite my early fears about Niculae becoming an outcast due to his wages is not the case. He gets on well with the whole team and the whole team get on well with each other....the only problems that exist are between players and management/club officials - partly because of the money thing, but mostly because none of them can get a straight answer from Brewster with regards to their futures. I found myself having a wee laugh last night when lying in bed thinking about what's happening with the club and some people might think I have just gone mad when I say what I am about to say, but.....I was at a meeting last week with Mike Smith (and DJS) following some issues I had raised about how certain things were being communicated (or not) to the fans and I came away from it feeling pretty positive that he had listened to what had to be said, taken on board the fact that everyone had a part to play in changing things and moving it forward to prevent future animosity between fans and the club in regards to the non-footballing side of things. Cards were laid on the table and I got a better understanding of the problems and frustrations he faced as well. We all agreed that things could have been done differently by everyone to prevent certain events and the important thing was to learn and move to prevent it in future instead of continuing a war of finger pointing. Between us we came up with a couple of ideas to change and hopefully improve matters. Some things have already been done by Mike/The Club and I think everyone has witnessed that in terms of Stewarding etc the Matchday experience is a bit more relaxed and we (the fans) don't feel like we have Stewards breathing down our necks every 2 seconds...it's less intimidating for all concerned....hopefully we can work together to improve things further and get better communication on what's what for the fans. Anyway, to cut a long story short....what made me laugh was that here we were, getting plans in place to sort what we all perceived as one of the biggest issues between club and fans and no sooner were we getting that sorted when the club were busy shooting themselves in the foot on the footballing side and almost recreating the issue in another area. When you put the personalities aside....be that Mike Smith, Craig Brewster, Alan Savage or any of the Players or Fans....it comes down to one thing.....Communication. As the song goes "Aint what you do, its the way that you do it...that's what gets results"

For me, it just doesn't stack up. When CC resigned the club made a big hullabaloo about the fact that Park would be retained and the impression was given that this would be at practically any cost. We were told at the fans meeting that Park had told the club he wouldn't stand in the way if the new manager wanted to bring in his own assistant. We were told that even if the new manager did want to bring in his own man then Park would still have a coaching job at the club in some shape or form. Firstly, why were the club so desperate to retain the services of Park if they had such faith in Brewster...afterall they told us the Manager was the most important person at the club and he was there to make all decisions regarding his team....yet this was one decision they had taken out of his hands before he even arrived. For me it stunk of "jobs for the boys" and we'll retain Park and his experience/skills to bolster the weak choice of Brewster. Secondly, if Park had been missing his family so much and he told the club that when CC resigned, then him staying was never going to be a long term thing. Why try and hide the fact under layers of spin and BS, why not just come out and say that Park would stay on to offer a bit of continuity until such time as a suitable replacement could be found....do the club think we (the fans) are stupid? Thirdly, what is it with the club recently that sees them want to get rid of people who want to stay and keep people who want to go? All it does is create unrest at every level and that's not healthy for any team. Aside from any difficulties Brewster might be having as a manager and the problems players may or may not have in regards to discipline, the lies that are being told by the club only serve to further alienate the fans and make matters ten times worse. I am beginning to wonder if those who are responsible for the information coming out of the club retain any grasp on what the truth actually is anymore. They aren't even clever enough to keep a consistent theme running throughout all the BS that we're being fed...anyone can lie, but to be a good liar you need a good memory. Everyone is suffering because the club are unable to handle fan expectations and the term Public Relations is an alien concept. Brewster could be totally incompetent, but despite him not being my choice for the job I don't believe he would be as incompetent as he is coming across....not to mention the fact that even the BoD we have now wouldn't stand for it unless he was working to some kind of plan. That leaves only two possible scenarios that I can think of that would result in the BoD not having taken action in relation to some of what has being going on..... 1. Brewster is working to his own plan, trying to make this team his own and he has somehow convinced the BoD that getting rid of some of our more experienced/promising players and staff is for the long term benefit. 2. Brewster is just a public facing puppet who is being paid well to take the flack for executing someone else's plan and the casualties are those who do not wish to be part of such a charade. Regardless of what is going on, the club seem to have themselves tangled up in a web of lies, half truths and smokescreens. Every bit of news that comes from the club digs them in to a deeper hole and it's not going to be long before it caves in around them. The longer the club ignore the feelings of the fans and try to feed us on BS the worse it is going to get. to be fair, he already did ..... before it happened ! He wasn't the only one!!!

Are Gretna using Raydale Park for cup games? If so I wouldn't mind a wee trip there as it could well be the last game they use it for before it gets ripped down and replaced. If not a wee Jolly to Linlithgow would do me fine.

I really couldn't give a hoot about Gretna and it's a sad day when we have to pin our survival hopes on the demise of another team instead of being able to rely on our own club being able to do the job they are charged with. But, for me, this is way beyond just SPL survival, I fear that if we don't get things sorted (on and off the park) then we'll end up going the way of Partick and C*unty and slipping back through the leagues as the Board of Directors continue with an environment of "jobs for the boys" and to feck with anyone who doesn't like it. As I have said before...it's time for us to thank certain people for the job they have done in getting us to the SPL and then allow them to move on and bring in people who are capable of sustaining our position and perhaps even moving us forward a little. Donald Park, Craig Brewster, Ian Black, John Rankin, Stuart McCaffery, Marius Niculae....none of them are bigger than the club and I would suspect that none of them think they are bigger than the club...but these are the guys who are being made the scapegoats. Not to mention the fans who are being dished up large portions of BS by the club time and again. When the roots of the tree are rotting it doesn't matter how many branches you trim...it doesn't stop the tree from dieing. I didn't think Brewster was the man for the job when he was appointed and I still don't...but I do find it hard to criticise the guy when I believe his hands are being tied by others. Donald Park was in the same boat IMO, and he has decided enough is enough and he is getting out....I wouldn't be surprised if many of these players who are being touted for the off are doing the same thing, and I don't think the ones mentioned to date will be the last of them. Relying on Gretna to survive the season is one thing....but can you explain how you think Gretna are going to save us from going down the pan in regards to everything else that's going on?

I wish I could believe things wouldn't get any worse, but I fear we will witness a lot more deterioration before things start to improve....the most I find myself hoping for right now is that we can do enough on the pitch to survive the season.

I think our biggest problems lie further up the pecking order than Brewster and unless changes are made to personnel and attitudes at a higher level then it will matter not a jot who we have as manager/assistant manager.

It will be easy to spot Parks replacement....just keep an eye out for anyone in the industry making an appointment with Geppetto to have their strings attached before they arrive at ICT and are forced to perform under the control of our very own Stromboli.

I don't think anyone is saying that these lads, or anyone for that matter, should sit silently the whole game. If Fraser had been having a howler of a game, then jeering him may also have been justifiable, but (despite not being tested often) he kept a clean sheet and dealt fairly solidly with everyone that was thrown at him. McAllister is not rated highly among many of the support, but again he wasn't even on the park, let alone had a chance to do anything deserving the booing. If people want to berate players then during the match is not the time for it. We, as fans, have no control over what players are out there representing us...but the fact is they are out there in our colours playing for our team and you could argue that if your of the opinion that they are a weak link then they need all the more encouragement and support to get them through. There's a time and a place for protesting, but getting in a players back in such a fashion during the match does nobody any favours and only adds to and becomes part of the problem.

And you reckon I have a habit of getting het up about things Ya big drama queen :016:

I am a fan of Duncans and often find myself backing him when others move to criticise...but I would say that Saturdays performance was one of his poorest this season. You can normally rely on him to do the simple stuff well...like getting a foot on the ball or clearing a ball forward to take the pressure off the midfield and defence and I don't think he did that at all on Saturday and seemed too eager to just hoof it anywhere and everywhere. Duncan wasn't alone in that respect though, so I wouldn't rate him any poorer than most of the other players. My top 3 were Niculae, Cowie and Wyness as these were the 3 who were most instrumental in stringing together our counter attacks. Niculae edged MotM for me as I saw something from him on Saturday that we have lacked as a team all season....a bot of leadership. On a few occasions I saw him geeing up the team and offering a bit of encouragement and advice and I think this played a big part in ensuring we didn't descend into chaos in the same way we did against Motherwell.

The group of fans "under the microscope" at the minute are the exact same ones many of us supported when they were asking for a singing section, were getting heavy handed treatment by the stewards etc...but you really have to get rid of this "victim mentality" and start to accept responsibility for your own actions. Whether you believe you were right or wrong is of little consequence...the fact is, many people thought you overstepped the mark and you need to decide how you are going to handle that. You can take the points on board and make a mature and responsible decision on whether or not it really was a wise idea, or you can totally ignore what people are saying and carry on regardless...just don't forget that actions have consequences and you can only go around p!ssing people off for long before someone will decide enough is enough and move to act against you. Also keep in mind that many of these people are the ones who backed you before...and they may just decide that the next time you come under the kosh that your not worth sticking up for.

It's not just one person birdog, it effects many people. I understand that the club are not going to turn away money from Setanta, but I don't think it would be asking too much that Setanta get the finger out at the start of the season and make a decision as to what games they are going to want to show and when. At least that way people would be able to plan ahead properly. Aside from those in Gringo's position (and there are quite a few) consideration also needs to be given to those who purchase season tickets on the basis of having looked at the fixture list and calculated they are value for money. Will the club be willing to refund a portion of the season ticket cost to those holders who are unable to make the rescheduled matches.....I very much doubt it. ICT fans are not alone in these grumbles...it effects every club and every club is guilty of the constant take take take without giving a moments thought to the people who are being impacted upon time and again. Money is important...but so are the fans and this whole nonsense with changing fixtures needs to be better balanced....not just at ICT, but across the SPL as a whole. The Celtic fixture was changed to the 16th at 2pm...as far as I know or can find anywhere that has not been changed again.

If I'm totally honest...I stopped taking in much of what you post a long time ago. I agree with much of what you say in regards to other issues in general...I just can't be bothered with all the crap you cloak it in.

Forgive my ignorance (and laziness as I can't be ersed going to check elsewhere), but is the draw seeded?

Just to stand up for the club/stewards a little bit here. Had this happened earlier in the season then these lads may very well have suffered Steward intervention, but the club appear to be trying to adopt a more sensible approach to the Stewarding in the last few games and that is to be welcomed. I am also of the opinion that although the majority of those in that area yesterday may well be long standing fans/season ticket holders, there are definitely new faces among them who seem more intent on trying to provoke a reaction than watching the game and they are dragging some of the others down with them. I'm no stranger to the dangers of Peer Pressure, and I learned the hard way that the phrase "Fly with the Crows, get Shot with the Crows" is a warning well worth paying attention too. The treatment of Rory/Mike yesterday needs to be end, regardless of the reasons. The culprits may not want to listen to the views of the fans on this matter...that is their choice...but we are not so stupid as to think that your actions will have no impact on us if the club ramp up the strictness of Stewards again and we will not allow that to happen. Better a "friendly" word in your ear from one of your own than finding yourself on the receiving end of the Stewards/Clubs actions....and it will happen, regardless of how ridiculous you think it may be to treat you like that.

Almost.....Rory was being booed long before he came on and whilst he was warming up behind the goal at the North Stand.

Wasn't at the match but if that is true...... It's one of the wittiest things I've heard of coming from our support. And if his kicking was as poor as has been reported then probably deserved certainly not the kind of comment that should drive a professional to flick the vs On it's own, perhaps undeserving of a response by Fraser....but it was just one of many "jibes" he'd been almost constantly subjected to. I don't condone Frasers reaction, but it was certainly understandable.