CaleyD

Fraser was subjected to a constant string of abusive comments, as well as jeering from the lads at the back every time he kicked a ball. One person shouted "The pitch is that big green thing in front of you" which is what seemed to provoke the 2 fingered salute. As has been said by others, the shout seemed to come from the same person who gives Mike dogs abuse week after week and the response was directed at him. The lads up the back then decided to step up the taunting....call it showing off, playing the big man in front of mates or whatever, but the simple fact is that it was immature and unnecessary. The "your 5hit...arghhhh" chant may not have been made until after mike reacted, but it was certainly not the first chant, boo, jeer that they had aimed in Frasers direction. Even if it had been...why should they start it following the reaction from Fraser? If they had done nothing up until that point then it would have been obvious it was not directed at them and they had no reason to react themselves. If they believe it was directed at them, then they must have done something to justify that thinking. Doesn't matter which way you try to spin it...the chanting, shouting, jeering and booing was mindless and unnecessary.

Based on what is known, I would agree with Brewsters decision to delay his shoulder operation and that his actions in this instance are for the benefit of the team. Wyness and Proctor both had the same operation and the recovery period was in the region of 3 months. If Brewster was to go for the op now then that would put him out for the all but the last few games at the end of the season. Given that this could very well be his last season playing then it would foolish to count himself out. It's a no-brainer IMO....his shoulder is weak and he could very easily do damage to it again and see himself out for an extended period, but no longer than he would be out if he voluntarily went for the op...as it is, he is fit to play and could still play an important part in our season. With regards to his comments that we played well...compared to our Motherwell performance we played exceptionally well and if the game plan was to get our nose in front then dig in, then the tactics were executed well. As fans we like to see pretty, entertaining football, but that doesn't always win games and just now I'll happily watch us scrap for points...no matter how horrible it is to watch.

We all have a wee moan to each other when watching the game, but you don't do it to such an extent that it distracts the player and takes his mind away from the game or his preparations....even for a moment. I also don't think that the players are naive enough to think for one second that they themselves are everyones favourite player or that they are above criticism. If they or their families read comments on here, they do it of their own free will. A player on the park doesn't have that luxury. Once might have been funny, and to be honest I never reacted to it the first time because I thought they might just be having a bit of a laugh and Fraser would likely take it as good banter, but after the second, third, fourth time it was out of order...pure and simple. At least one of them continued the Fraser crap into the second half despite the player being at the other end of the freaking pitch...the only reason he could have for that is because he was looking for a reaction from other fans. Also, lets say that we did lose a goal today because of blunder by Fraser....you can be **** sure all these people who were berating him during the match would be on here giving him pelters with absolutely no thought as to the part they might have played in putting him off his game. It's not about being PC or trying to spoil anyones fun, it's about taking a little responsibility and understanding the consequences of your actions....a lesson that very few youngsters seem to be taught these days. I get sick to the back teeth with teenagers brushing things of with the "we were just having a laugh" excuse. It's groups like that who end up causing real problems...things have been better at the stadium the last couple of weeks after a poor start to the season with the Stewards and it's the mindless actions of these minority groups that will bring those problems back and then EVERYONE suffers. Nobody is expecting them to sit on their hands and be silent for the whole game....but I'd rather sit in silence than have these people spouting disruptive nonsense.

Caleyonup....I would agree that todays performance was far from a good one, but the lads on the pitch did what needed to be done to secure 3 points, and when all is said and done, that's what counts. We got our nose in front and the team dug in and showed they were determined not to give it up without a fight. Sometimes that's what it takes to win games and right now I'll take the wins no matter how they come.

Hadn't realised the info on Black was in the Sun (not a paper I read), but I had fully expected it to be in the Sunday papers as it didn't seem to be the best kept secret.

Black was missing as a result of his actions at the Motherwell game, we've been told nothing official but I've heard enough from "reliable" sources to leave me 100% certain that was the reason. I also heard that he had his performance money for the Motherwell match withheld by way of a fine. Agree that we missed his presence in the middle of the park today, we really needed a "terrier-like" player of Blacks ilk and none of our other players can do that job. As I commented elsewhere during the week, I'm all for discipline, but Brewster needs to find some way of dealing with that which doesn't have such an impact on the team. It didn't cost us today, thankfully, but it easily could have. Had it not been for the fact we scored first and the team seemed determined to dig in and not surrender the lead then we may have missed Black a **** of a lot more. Well done...although I was sure you were offside when you scored :015:

:023: - although I don't think I was the only one.

Glad of the 3 points in a game which could easily have gone the other way. Our defence rallied well, but still weren't on form, and Niculae and Wyness made the best of the scraps they were fed. Our midfield was a bit hit and miss IMO. They weren't holding the ball very well and were conceding too much ground to St Mirren which in turn put extra pressure on the back line. Going forward we lacked support on many occasions with either Wyness or Niculae having to try and go it alone. The big difference for me today was that the team seemed to be playing with a bit more spirit again. The way they fought and scrapped for the ball on many occasions was great and I don't think I can recall a 50/50 ball that bounced in our favour or things could have been a little more positive. The conditions were difficult and we handled them better as a team than St Mirren. For all the possession they had they did very little with it and I think Fraser only had one real save to make the entire match....unfortunately it seemed to be much the same story at the other, but it wasn't for the want of trying and with the way things have been going lately we can't ask for much more than that. Niculae put in a power of work today, chased everything and was unfortunate on 2 or 3 occasions that the ball never fell more kindly for him which hampered his shots. A couple of times he maybe should have done better. I also noticed him encouraging the other players a lot more today and trying to gee them up a bit...as someone else said above, we look a better team with him in the squad, regardless of whether he is scoring or not.

Right, so we're to believe that Fraser just out of the blue decided to give the guys the 'V' for no reason whatsoever? You know, you just might be right..and maybe I was a bit OTT in my comment above...but there's a small group of people who have taken to turning up at our home matches and do nothing but cause problems...many are new faces, and IMO are more interested in causing a wee bit of aggro than supporting the team. If they want to make idiots of themselves, that's fine, but when it starts to have an impact on what's happening on the park then it is about time someone showed them the door as they are far more trouble than they are worth. If it was genuine criticism then you could understand it (perhaps), but they were at it from the word go...firstly having a go at McAllister whilst he was warming up, and then at Fraser who was struggling to keep the ball in play (perhaps they hadn't noticed the gale force wind). People like this are a cancer in any support and they need to be cut out before they spread. Then to come on here bleating about Big Bad Fraser Giving them the V like they have some right to dish out all the abuse they like without response.......pathetic.

:rotflmao: I'm all for giving Brewster a chance to turn things around, but your damaging your own case by making ridiculous comments like that. Brewster is "King of the Hoof and Chase" we've seen it return big style since he was appointed.

Feck right off too this little low-life tw@ts who thought it big to boo McAllister and then give Fraser dogs abuse. I don't know what hole you all crawled out from, but I'd be grateful if you could crawl straight back in to it again. Your lucky all you got was the 'V' as you deserved a slap to knock some sense in to each and every one of you.

Bring yer water wings

Our match against Rangers scheduled for Saturday 19th January has been changed to Sunday 20th @ 2pm Source

Some of the things we have seen recently does little to inspire confidence and it looks even bleaker when the fans start doubting our ability to get a result against opposition we should be more than capable of matching. However, the fans should be the one thing the club (and I don't mean the players or people employed there) should always be able to depend upon for support. I know lack of confidence does not equate to "bad supporter" and I'm not suggesting that for one minute. I just hope that, even though confidence is low, the fans can still lift themselves above everything and play their part as the extra man.

If we are relying on a few thousand for Rankin in order to secure signings in January then our problems extend far beyond the performance on the pitch and some serious other questions need answered.

Thank god your not a moderator then :015:

I was at the club for a meeting today and the subject of the bus was mentioned briefly. The club have listened to the concerns raised by those who got in contact directly and are aware of the comments made on here. The issue is being taken seriously and I believe they are looking to take steps to prevent future problems.

I really wish people would stop writing gretna off so easily. Other teams did that when we arrived in the SPL and paid the price for their arrogance.

Valid point Bronson and would normally agree. I was one of the ones who would have had no complaints if Blackie had been shown the door last season following some of his tantrums....but... We've always had one or two players who are capable of going off the boil, but this season it seems to have spread to guys who normally know how to keep a cool head. Since day one Duncan has been mouthy with refs and his teammates, Wilson has been dropped for allegedly speaking up on something he didn't like, Rankin is being kept out of the squad in connection with a rumoured argument with one or more people (and looks likely to move on as a result), Niculae has allegedly had disagreements with the manager, Rossco has been branded a disgrace, Black looks set to be "rested" for a couple of games....and that's just the stuff we have come to hear about....when you see so many of the players losing the plot and personal discipline going out the window on a wider scale then you have to start wondering as to the real cause of the issues.

Moving for "family" reasons is as acceptable an excuse as anything else that has been said so far because as far as most people are concerned it's all just rumour and speculation. However, a player looking to move on for "family" reasons doesn't go in to the Managers office to talk to him about why he's not getting a game and whether or not he is likely to feature in future if his mind is already made up that he wants to go. So, if there's any truth in the family reasons stuff, then I'm guessing it is a result of Brewster not giving him a clear idea of where he fits in to the squad, be it now or in the future, and it is that uncertainty that has swayed him into deciding to move on elsewhere. IMO, whichever way you paint it, the decision comes down to one over uncertainty regarding his future. Whilst I agree that no player has the right to expect to walk into the squad and must earn it, there is a reason Rankin is being kept out of the team and that has nothing to do with "family commitments". If, as seems to be the case, it is non-footballing reasons then the blame for us losing one of our better players lies squarely on the shoulders of the club and whoever is making these decisions. I for one do not blame Rankin for putting himself and his family first, especially when he is faced with what looks like a brick wall from the club with regards to his future. All players need to be managed, whether they are regular squad players or not and it doesn't look like this is happening to any great effect when you have players of Rankins caliber being practically frozen out of the team and being considered for loan deals.

That meeting the club had with the fans following the resignation of CC and prior to the appointment of Brewster was right up there with the all time biggest PR feck-ups ever made by ICT. It was billed as a chance for the fans to come along and have their say and the club would listen, but turned out to be nothing but an exercise in them (the club) building their case for a decision that had already been made. Every question/comment that came from the floor was answered in defence of a scenario where Brewster would be coming in as manager and points which were used to argue for Brewster were turned on their head and used to argue against other names which were being thrown around. The point was made by the panel that the Manager was the #1 priority in everything, he was the man who made decisions and called the shots and getting the best manager available was top priority. This didn't fit with the retaining Park as Assistant so I asked the question, that if a top manager showed interest but only if he brought in his own assistant, would the club turn them away because they wanted to retain the services of Park and how did that stance fit with the fact that they wanted the best available, and if looks could kill I would have dropped dead on the spot. My question was twisted to make it look like I was in some way wanting rid of Park and the whole point about whether or not retaining Park was a major deciding factor in who would be appointed was lost. The meeting was brought to a close shortly after...and it is my opinion that it was closed because the panel didn't like people picking holes in their case which was about as watertight as a pair of fish net stockings. I resigned myself to the appointment of Brewster after that meeting, but I also resigned myself to the fact that we had a board operating with little regard for the thoughts of the fans. The meeting only served to build on the negativity of those who didn't want Brewster back, and if the club were so confident that he was the right person for the job then why cloak it in such a veil of secrecy for so long. Why act like you have something to hide and go so overboard in your denial of the situation that it comes across as covering up something that you think people won't like. How long will it take for the current board to learn that the truth always gets out and it's better to manage that positively instead of trying to block smoke up our @ss and make themselves look like idiots when it goes so far that they are left in a situation whereby they can no longer deny it. In short, Brewster may or may not have been the right or best option available at the time, but the boards handling of the whole thing only served to increase the pressure on the guy when he took the reins and to focus everyones attention on everything he would do from the off. A few months on and we continue to see decisions being made which seem to have more grounding in personal attitudes and egos than in doing what is best for the team. As the saying goes - there's no smoke without fire - and (in large) the fans of ICT are not stupid or naive. We all know something is going on behind the scenes and we can all see with our own two eyes that it's having a negative effect on the club and the team. We hear snippets of rumours, and perhaps they do grow arms and legs, but it's hardly surprising that people start to draw their own conclusions on events when the club are working so hard to disguise the truth. The current situation with John Rankin is only one in a series of events in the past 10 months which leaves us all wondering just what the **** is going on and how long it is going to continue before someone at the top realises the damage it is doing and the hole it is sending this club towards. Our squad hasn't changed dramatically since last season, it's still the same players out there doing the same job, but much of the spirit seems lost. It's team spirit which played a large part in getting us where we are today, and it doesn't matter how much discipline Brewster dishes out, or how many extra days Park comes in to work with the lads for additional training, if the current set-up is sapping our biggest asset (team spirit) then it needs to be put right, and it needs to be put right sooner rather than later. We're no stranger to OG's on the park this season, but they are nothing in comparison to the OG's this club has shown capable of producing off the pitch.

I heard that the reason was they were using someone elses Sky Card to get the match and they were cut-off as someone grassed them up.

A thread on this very subject already exists as it was raised after the Motherwell game.

Watch your halo don't slip and choke you Johnboy :001:

He seemed pretty toothless against us when we played them at Fir Park and given the amount of the ball he saw (relative to the rest of the Gretna Squad) he never did much to threaten us.