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SMEE

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The Palestinians elected a terrorist group with anti-semitic genocide in it's constitution to govern them. They're firing thousands of rockets into Israeli towns and cities attempting to kill as many Israelis as they can. What would you do if you were an Israeli? How would you deal with this problem? Let's be realistic.

I'm not saying Israel is doing the right thing, but it's easy for us to sit on our high horses from over here.

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The Palestinians Israelis elected a terrorist group with anti-semitic Palestinian genocide in it's constitution to govern them. They're firing thousands of rockets into Israeli illegally occupied Palestinian towns and cities attempting to kill as many Israelis Palestinians as they can. What would you do if you were an Israeli Palestinian? How would you deal with this problem? Let's be realistic.

I'm not saying Israel Hamas is doing the right thing, but it's easy for us to sit on our high horses from over here.

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Are you really saying you think there is no difference between the Kadima party and Hamas?

I'm not pro-Israel, far from it. I just get the impression that too many people have a simplistic black and white view of whats going on in that region. Israel = aggressor, Palestinian = victim.

Hamas' covenant states that "so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences" are "in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement", stating "there is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad".[64] (wikipedia)

How do you negotiate with people like that? This is a group that sends children on suicide bombing missions, and injects them with HIV beforehand to try to infect any survivors. Freedom fighters? Not in my book.

Blame for the suffering in that region has to be aportioned to both sides in good measure. Israel-bashing isn't the solution, it just reinforces Israeli's victimhood complex / siege mentality.

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I pretty much agree with most of what you've said. What I was trying to illustrate (and what I said before) was that there was right on both sides but extremists holding too much sway (again on both sides - Israeli governments have regularly been composed of minority ultra-Zionist parties). Hamas have indicated privately that there can be negotiations but it's not in their interests to say that publicly. Much the same thing happened with the IRA/Sinn Feinn. (I'm pretty dubious about the whole HIV thing - sounds like propaganda to me)

When I hear of attacks on Americans, Brits, Jews or Israelis in another country, my first thought is how ridiculous that guilt is assumed just because you happened to be from that country, never mind the actual political leanings of the individual. But that's just what's happening in Gaza. Innocent men, women and children are being killed that are not terrorists (but if it happened to a person close to you, wouldn't it drive you to vengeance?).

The bottom line is: no way will this bring peace to Israel - quite the opposite. And the crazy thing is: everyone knows the answer - a 2 state solution along pre-1967 borders. But that needs two things on both sides: trust (a virtual impossibility) and isolating extremists - something that seems impossible.

PS From what I understand over here in Egypt, Hamas was actually elected to stamp out corruption, rather than the anti-Israel policy. Same as people over here (without bothering to explain that we don't have a President) assume Blair was re-elected because of Iraq - domestic issues get easily overlooked from the outside.

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As the horrors of Palestine get worse and worse - a UN school bombed this afternoon, by the Israelis...

I still keep asking myself when is that Middle East Peace Envoy Tony Blair, going to make some kind of a comment on the unholy obscenity that is unfolding out there?

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As the horrors of Palestine get worse and worse - a UN school bombed this afternoon, by the Israelis...

I still keep asking myself when is that Middle East Peace Envoy Tony Blair, going to make some kind of a comment on the unholy obscenity that is unfolding out there?

That was 3 schools bombed, Israel blaming Hamas for the deaths as they are occupying civilian buildings.

With that logical arguement Al Qaeda could blame the US for the dead in the twin towers as there were federal agents in them.

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dead_ball_specialist

" This is a group that sends children on suicide bombing missions, and injects them with HIV beforehand to try to infect any survivors"

Thank God for last nights News with some inside shots of this carnage, (seeing is believing), with all the little children being blasted to bits and today the school being targeted, the Israelis obviously accept your above stated view and are taking steps to stamp it out.

The commentators talk about 'a war raging behind me' as they do their presentation. Anything less like a war is hard to understand, tanks, warships, aircraft and a well trained foot army fighting against ???????

Oh yes, the wee children that maybe will turn into suicide bombers!

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I can't condone Israels actions but do understand them. Hamas regularly fire rockets from the middle of heavily populated areas. The Israelis track these missiles and as they have always done hit back at aggressors incredibly hard. Surrounded as they are by hostile neighbours, their logic of sledgehammer to crack a peanut obviously makes sense in Tel Aviv. The only reason other Arab countries don't join in with Hamas overtly is that many of them remember the 6 day war in 1967 when the Israelis totally detroyed the Egyptian Air Force after being attacked.

Solutions to the problem start with getting Hamas and Israel to talk and more importantly listen to each other.

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I can't condone Israels actions but do understand them. Hamas regularly fire rockets from the middle of heavily populated areas. The Israelis track these missiles and as they have always done hit back at aggressors incredibly hard. Surrounded as they are by hostile neighbours, their logic of sledgehammer to crack a peanut obviously makes sense in Tel Aviv. The only reason other Arab countries don't join in with Hamas overtly is that many of them remember the 6 day war in 1967 when the Israelis totally detroyed the Egyptian Air Force after being attacked.

Solutions to the problem start with getting Hamas and Israel to talk and more importantly listen to each other.

How can talks between Hamas And Israel possibly take place when Israel are clearly out to completely destroy Hamas, no matter how many innocent men, women and children have to be wiped out in the process?

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How can talks between Hamas And Israel possibly take place when Israel are clearly out to completely destroy Hamas, no matter how many innocent men, women and children have to be wiped out in the process?

1st - Hamas has to acknowledge Israel's existence / right to exist. Without this, nothing can happen. Conversely, Israel also has to accept that those peoples who were displaced when Israel was created also have the right to a place they can call their homeland.

2nd - Israel's "friends" need to put incredible pressure on them to go to the table. If Israel/Egypt can remain at peace then there is a glimmer of hope for peace with other Arab nations/groups.

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Guest Spectre

2nd - Israel's "friends" need to put incredible pressure on them to go to the table. If Israel/Egypt can remain at peace then there is a glimmer of hope for peace with other Arab nations/groups.

Yeah well this was the "road map" that was supposedly going to happen after Gulf War 2.

It's difficult to see how the impetus can be restored.

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Why is it always the Arabs states that have to acknowledge Israel first? Israel caused a furore when IIRC Jack Straw said he was visiting Palestine, instead of Palestinians. Israelis don't accept a Palestine - Palestinians don't accept an Israel.

Acknowledgment isn't the first step. The IRA have never acknowledged that Northern Ireland is British and vice versa. Hamas have every right to state they are completely opposed to an Israel. It's the means they do it through that should be the source of debate (although if Scotland was illegally occupied by Nazi Germany, I'm not too sure I'd stick with peaceful means).

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I do not have any in depth knowledge of who is right or who is wrong, what I do know because I see it with my own eyes, is that this is a big Rambo like, response from Israel.

Food blockade - 'allow food through tomorrow?' ' depends on the army' No, it should depend on the need of the people that have been starved of food!!

Help the injured - Don't be silly we are Israelis! They can lie there.

Delivery of food - Israeli artic with a trailer pulls up and offloads - a wee cart comes along with a donkey pulling it, to distribute the contents. Sums up the unequal struggle, I think!

Smuggling of illegal arms into Gaza- it would appear that they are not even allowed any arms into their own country whilst their neighbours have the latest, which they display, including the biggest bomb there is, just so they can have this unequal war!!

Lastly - The Israelis 'advise' women and children fleeing the fight to take shelter in a house and then proceed to mortar it! They mortar a school and their reason was a mortar was fired from it - later- well, maybe we were wrong.!

From the above it would appear that I am blinkered to the Israeli cause, well,....... if I wasn't before I am now!!

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Many an analogy has been made about the Israel / Palestine region. Many within this very thread. Indeed many more will be made in the years and centuries to come. People will always have leanings towards one side or the other. And to a certain extent every viewpoint could be the correct one. This region will never be free of trouble. Not so long as the Jewish occupation keeps squeezing the Palestinian occupied lands.

Look at the two maps attached. One shows the UN agreed areas for the Jewish occupation. As can be seen Gaza and the West Bank are joined. The second map shows the further occupation of Palestinian lands that took place in 67. A corridor is driven between Gaza and the West Bank. Since then Israel has tried to squeeze the Palestinian from Gaza. If allowed to succeed where will they stop? Occupy the West Bank?

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post-81-1231533710.gif

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