Surveillance Cameras Have Ears.

[Guest birdog]

Scottish streets have been used to trial a new system linked to CCTV. Cameras are now being developed which listen for the sound of aggression and react to it by pointing the camera in the direction of the sound. For anyone who has read Orwell's 1984 what was a fictional view of a horrific future is all but upon us. Are things going too far? When will it end? Are we little more than animals which need to be constantly monitored in order to keep us in check and working along the lines which people in government deem as suitable for society? WTF has happened to freedom? When replying be aware that Big Brother is watching.

EDIT- Forgot to link the story- HERE

Edited February 13, 2009 by birdog

[CaleyD]

I saw a programme on SKY about a similar kind of thing which was being developed and they had hoped to trial it at the last Olympics (not sure if they did or not). It was also able to distinguish movements which were deemed aggressive and could pick up purse snatchers etc, as well as being able to pick out unattended baggage etc. Don't think that system relied on any audio, but it was incredibly impressive (even at development stage) how effective it was.

I'm not keen on the idea of being watched/listened to everywhere I go, but I do think that the benefits outweigh the "Big Brother" concerns. If you've nothing to hide then you've nothing to worry about and if it makes people think twice about picking a fight or mugging someone and/or helps lead to their capture then I'll happily accept that it might pick up on me shouting down the street to someone.

[Johnboy]

CCTV systems have helped the police secure thousands of convictions over the years for anything from handbag-snatching to outright murder.

I'm all for them...

[Guest birdog]

CCTV systems have helped the police secure thousands of convictions over the years for anything from handbag-snatching to outright murder.

I'm all for them...

The Jill Dando case was one case which CCTV evidence was used to secure a conviction.

As for other cases, yes there may be a good few that have been solved using CCTV but criminals are a wily bunch. I sailed with a cook who told me of how he got away with assaulting someone in a nightclub and used the CCTV to his advantage, he approached the guy he was about to assault then started an argument, keeping his gestures and body language neutral and positioning the victim between himself and the camera. He then made a sharp movement backwards and clutched his face as if he had been struck first then he assaulted the guy the result was that the victim ended up with an assault conviction, so whereas CCTV can convict a dumb criminal it can also be used to the criminals advantage. There is also little evidence to prove that CCTV reduces crime rates.

[CaleyD]

You've been watching too much Coronation Street, birdog.

[Guest birdog]

You've been watching too much Coronation Street, birdog.

Never watch it CaleyD, was that scenario played out there? I was told that story over two years ago by a cook from Dover so possibly he saw the Coronation Street episode in question and suckered me in with it. I certainly would not be as stupid to try to pass off a story which would be watched by millions on an internet discussion forum as my own.

EDIT- too busy pissing about on internet forums to watch women's TV.

Edited February 13, 2009 by birdog

[ICTBTTH]

I feel that this is now going way to far. Sure it may help secure convictions but what does that do to stop it or help the victims pain? Bugger all thats what!! It is just another prime example of the Big Brother nation that we live in.

Edited February 15, 2009 by ictbetterthanthehighlands

[starchief]

I was speaking to world-renowned psychologist, whose worked in many parts of Europe and is now in Africa. He said he's never met a race more aggressive than the Brits. In most countries, if people have mental problems, they go in to a shell, whereas Brits get aggressive in far higher percentages. There must be something in that. Quite what, I dunno.

[Linwoodictsc]

i watched a programme one night and a group of guys were about to set about some poor guy on his own and the person manning the cctv spoke through it and the guys were dumbfounded, it was great looking at their faces

[starchief]

Don't know how they ever manage to catch people with those. The images always seem to be absolutely awful! I guess they maybe just alert police to the scene (gradually stroll over there whilst looking for cars 30 seconds over their meter ticket) and generally act as a deterrent.

[Charles Bannerman]

I heard on the radio that this thing was going to be trialled in Glasgow!? Can you just imagine? The thing would be going mental trying to point in every direction at the same time!

[Heilandee]

I used to be firmly in the "nothing to hide,nothing to fear" camp when it came to surveillance cameras,but having seen the over zealous use of speed cameras as a means of extra tax collection i'm not so sure now.I fear that pressure on police to meet targets will see "easy" targets getting pulled for minor misdemeanours and folk ending up criminalised for high spirits or carrying on in a manner most folk have been guilty of at some point of their lives.

[CaleyD]

The question comes though...are 4 or 5 slaps on the wrist for "high spirits" a worthwhile price if the new technology saves a life or brings a dangerous person to justice?

It's not a question that we should be having to ask, and there's no doubt in my mind that there's issues in the system where police/security/courts like to take the "easy" hit to meet targets or whatever, but I wouldn't want to be the one to face a family that lost someone to a crime that might have been prevented by technology that it was in my power to utilise.

[Heilandee]

I would never advocate the prevention of surveillance equipment ,however i would like to see some form of independant monitoring of it's usage.

I am totally convinced speed cameras are now used more to generate revenue than prevent accidents ,with positioning being optimised at points where folk are more likely to be caught unawares than at accident blackspots.Today being a prime example heading down to Fort William and stuck behind a couple of lorries ,i know there is a safe long straight a couple of miles north of Invermorriston,where do they position a speed camera van? in the layby at the end, thus preventing safe overtaking for fear of getting a ticket and increasing frustration,but likely to catch folk heading north coming across the first bit of straight for several miles.

I'm generally law abiding and police supporting but am beginning to get a bit wary of the saturation coverage and useage in all situations with no redress or room to negotiate in mitigating circumstances.

[starchief]

I agree 100% Heilandee. You also see these programmes where folk will get arrested for swearing at midnight on a Saturday. The police should arrest themselves first then! It's a nothing crime. An easy statistic to their name.

Do you know you're actually allowed to be given copies every time you appear on CCTV? Try and get them, then prepare for a long wait.

CCTV definitely has it's uses but it's getting a bit out of control. Like speed cameras, trouble spots only please. Otherwise, are we going to have it filming our homes to curb any dissent eventually?

[Caley Stan]

I am instinctively opposed to CCTV cameras. Just the thought of cameras pointed at me while a go about my everyday business sends shivers down my spine.

In response to the 'nothing to hide, nothing to fear' argument, i would say that we must have complete trust in the police, government or any other authority able to obtain CCTV footage before we can truly say that we have nothing to fear from being filmed and recorded. I don't have that level of faith in our democratic system. At a governmental level, decisions are taken and laws are passed that bear no resemblance to the will of the people who are used in a variety of of ways to further the ends of a powerful minority. I don't want that minority to have any more information about me than they have to. It only serves to concentrate their power.

I think that the presence of CCTV scares people. When we are confronted by authority we keep our heads down and act as 'normal' as possible. What does the presence of this authority on every street corner do for freedom of expression? In some authoratarian countries they have policeman with guns standing on street corners. People are scared to express their opinions outside of their own homes. Do we really want to move a step closer to that situation?

[Johnboy]

For all who are opposed to the use of CCTV cameras please watch this and think again.

[FortressICT]

Cant find the thread on cameras at the footie.

But a programme on about it on channel5. Albeit its leeds v millwall not quite as mental as ICT V County.