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Meanwhile, Back On Animal Farm...


Canada Bob

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Could the credibility {or the nerve} of the Government and its Courts get any lower ?

Afterall, it's not like he killed anyone important...

Maybe he got out for ood behavior ? the thing is though, there's folks doing more time for shoplifting !!!

I guess at the end of the day it's just another Criminal in the House of Lords...

Edited by Canada Bob
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Guest birdog

If you see the full facts involved in this case the driver never sent nor received a text message for some minutes before the accident which caused the death of the other man. The use of the mobile phone was not indicated as a cause of the accident. Lord Ahmed was jailed for dangerous driving NOT causing death by dangerous driving and as such his sentence was harsher than that of most sentences for people caught using mobile phones whilst driving.

It's amazing how stories can be spun, yes, I agree driving whilst using a mobile is criminal it has been proved to be as hazardous if not more hazardous than driving at 1.5 times the drink drive limit but at the end of the day Lord Ahmed was NOT jailed for the death of the other man, he was jailed for his actions some minutes prior to the crash putting your comparisons out of context, I am afraid.

EDIT- Link to original story

Edited by birdog
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If you see the full facts involved in this case

I'm not disputing the "so called facts" of the case, nor whether I believe them, what I'm saying is...

What do you think you'd get in the same circumstances, it starts with him being able to pay for a top Lawyer, that's half the battle, who would you be able to afford ? and as a result do you think the outcome would be the same ?

Looks like Animal Farm to me, the swine have risen to the top again...

How did it go ? "we're all equal, but some of us are more equal than others"...

Add to that he was found Guilty, and he still is, but he was given a sentence that few others would be given, then let out in a matter of days.

Edited by Canada Bob
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Guest birdog

If you see the full facts involved in this case

I'm not disputing the "so called facts" of the case, nor whether I believe them, what I'm saying is...

Then why call your link to the story "Afterall, it's not like he killed anyone important..." or the phrase "so called" it just seems to me that you, like every other socialist I have met, like to distort the facts and use spin to create an illusion of favouritism towards the upper classes.

If you had opened this thread with a statement that people are being treated far too leniently for using mobile phones whilst driving you would have had my full backing in this matter but this guy was jailed for using a mobile whilst driving, the accident was unavoidable, and was jailed for it. I know many people who have been caught using mobile while driving and had a fine of ?60 and three points, so to the question of what I would expect to get in the same circumstances I would say anything between a ?60 fine and 3 years imprisonment is what I'd expect.

If someone had been stopped for using a mobile whilst driving and then was involved in but cleared of blame in a fatal accident an hour later would he expect jail time? I don't think so. I think the high media profile of this case and the short time between the two incidents lead to Lord Ahmed being jailed where a lesser noted case of the same circumstances may well have seen the accused being given a community order, fine and ban.

Edited by birdog
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I know someone who got away with an SP30 (3 points) and ?250 fine after being caught doing 103mph a few years back. They had no fancy title, no high paid lawyers etc....just one very fortunate idiot.

So, whilst I do think there's occasions where money and title talk, I'm not so sure it's always the case and this is a poor example to use to try and prove one.

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Then why call your link to the story "Afterall, it's not like he killed anyone important..."

I guess that was an attempt at satirical humour...

or the phrase "so called" it just seems to me that you, like every other socialist I have met,

Not sure what makes you think I'm a socialist, maybe giving a damn about injustice, and having consideration for others might brand me as a socialist, but even if guilty of that then yer not saying that everyone else "tells it like it is", you're one in a million if you never put a spin on anything you wanted to promote, my guess is we're all guilty of that.

like to distort the facts and use spin to create an illusion of favouritism towards the upper classes.

Upper Class ??? how did these r soles get to be considered as "Upper Class" ? far as I'm concerned I "Honour all men, but I bow down to none". I have more respect for a bloke who's worked all his life, or a soldier doing his bit, or others who support society rather than live off it.

Maybe yer right, maybe that makes me a socialist, in my book folks earn respect, they aren't awarded it for Political Favours, or because their mothers slept in the right bed.

If you had opened this thread with a statement that

Hang on, I'm not handing Homework in for your approval... like you I have a right to express myself in here...

people are being treated far too leniently for using mobile phones whilst driving you would have had my full backing in this matter but this guy was jailed for using a mobile whilst driving, the accident was unavoidable, and was jailed for it. I know many people who have been caught using mobile while driving and had a fine of ?60 and three points, so to the question of what I would expect to get in the same circumstances I would say anything between a ?60 fine and 3 years imprisonment is what I'd expect.

I'll go back to my original concern, if this appened to "the average guy" he'd be serving a lot longer than Lord whatever his name is. Bit odd how as a socialist I'd be ranting on about a Labour Lord ?

If someone had been stopped for using a mobile whilst driving and then was involved in but cleared of blame in a fatal accident an hour later would he expect jail time? I don't think so.

We're not talking "an hour" in the evidence presented to the Court said it was 3 minutes since his last text, could it be he was still texting when he hit the other car ? is that possibe ? maybe he hadn't hit the send button yet.

I think the high media profile of this case and the short time between the two incidents lead to Lord Ahmed being jailed where a lesser noted case of the same circumstances may well have seen the accused being given a community order, fine and ban.

You reckon hey... as far as I'm concerned folks who are responsible for passing Laws in the UK should be held to greater account when they blatantly and repeatedly break the Law, especially when their actions endanger lives...

Edited by Canada Bob
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Guest birdog

Canada Bob, I have a great deal of respect for 99% of your posts and that is the reason I do not chime up in most of your threads. You are obviously an intelligent man and I do think that on a subject where you know your stuff I would have absolutely no chance in a debate with you but in this case and for the reasons I have already stated you are wrong. If you are not a socialist I do apologise for making that assumption but that was based on me recalling you having stated this fact in a previous post, I may be imagining this.

The facts here are simple Lord Ahmed was jailed for dangerous driving, he was cleared of causing death by dangerous driving. Most people, regardless of social class receive a fixed penalty for using a mobile while at the wheel. You may be correct, Lord Ahmed may have plea bargained his way out of a death by dangerous driving charge but that is done by all manner of people in courts up and down the country daily, I have done this myself on more than one occassion and I am certainly not a Lord but if you reread your initial post this was not the topic of discussion which you were inviting us all to enter into.

You are correct in your statement that people earn respect and you have earned mine with your previous threads but your last post is constructed in a way which you are trying to dig yourself out of a hole, I am sorry but in the context of this thread you have failed to get your point accross. It is a point worthy of exploring but not using this subject or if you are to use this subject perhaps checking the facts eg "the texts stopped 3 minutes before the crash" mobile phone technology is very easy to verify yet you are trying, without offering any evidence, to infer that this may not have been the case.

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You are obviously an intelligent man

Thankfully that's not how my mates measure me, I'd rather have a laugh or tell a joke than quote my IQ.

As for intelligence I don't measure a man on his intelligence, and certainly not on what's commonly called his "social status" I measure a man on his honesty and integrity or the wit of a man, be a hell of an afternoon in the pub with nowt but intelligent men in it... I'd go as far as to say that wit is more important in a man than intelligence.

According to Darwen et-al most of us are {for the most part} either born with varying degrees of it, hard to take credit for something that you were "gifted" with. On the other hand we attain honesty and integrity "of ourselves" therefore these are better measures of a man.

and I do think that on a subject where you know your stuff I would have absolutely no chance in a debate with you

No doubt some folks see debate as contest, to get one over on the other bloke, but the way I see it is to raise the awareness of people and get them to "think about what's going on", sensible debate isn't about who got one over on the other, it's about being able to reflect on how the other guy sees things, and to consider if there's credibility in what the opposition has to say.

but in this case and for the reasons I have already stated you are wrong.

I admire your conviction, grin...

If you are not a socialist I do apologise for making that assumption but that was based on me recalling you having stated this fact in a previous post, I may be imagining this.

You're probably not going off what I've had to say about Gordon Brown et-al then...

I'm not eactly sure what a socialist is these days, the goal posts have been moved too many times for me, but...

Going back 40 years I used to vote Labour, and did for a good few years, in those days it was the Harold Wilson era, I had the highest regard for Harold, but when he went things changed dramatically. By 1978 I was so hissed off seeing opportunists {rather than socialists} being parachuted into ridings, folks who couldn't spell Westhoughton let alone represent it, folks who's only concern was their betterment than their consituents, that I finished up campaigning for Carolyn Johnson the Tory candidate. I went to near every rally that she attended to speak {believe it or not} on her behalf, part of the reason being she didn't even know the language the locals spoke, she had more plums in her mouth than back street whore.

Even though Carolyn didn't get in, she cut down the Labour vote from what was a 16,000 majority to about 11,000, but in it's hey day when Tom Price {one of the old brigade, a bloke who actually lived in, and knew the people of the town} the Labour majority was around 25,000 !!! When Tom {a bloke who did more for other than he did for himself, by the way, that's a socialist to me}, we saw Roger Stott parachuted in, he whittled the inherited 25,000 majority down to 16,000, if only you knew that part of the world, you'd say that was impossible.

Roger Stott... now there was a man, voted in like a pig on wall just because we were told he was "Labour" yea right, after being voted in it took him 18 months before he made his maiden speech in Parliament, and that, believe it or not, was to congratulate Jim Callaghan on becoming the PM. boy did that bast*rd know which side of his bread the jam was on. 12 days later the tw*t became Callaghans Private Secretary, that was enough for me.

Back to Carolyns campaign, it was the year Maggie got in, and as a "thank you" from Carolyn I was invited to a meeting of all the NW candidates, the winners and the losers, and before the end of the night I was introduced to Maggie {I had no time for her either}. As Maggie shook my hand I'm thinking "if only I knew karate now", sigh.

Maggie had been primed on how I'd spoken {not really for the Tories, but} against Roger Stott and his ilk, and she asked me if I'd like to run for the Tory Party, I wer gobsmacked, I asked where, you know how the moment takes you, I'm thinking if it's Cheltenham, I'm packing me bags... but Maggie offered BARROW in FURNESS !!! FFS...

The majority in Barrow at the time was over 30,000, there'd be more chance of them voting for Nikita Khrushcev than a Tory candidate... She told me that "you could run there, then if we saw fit we would find you a winnable seat".

I thought long and hard about that, there's left wingers in the Tory Party, and right wingers in the Labour party, so I could have gone in as a fifth colomnists, the trouble with that was, I'd lost my respect for the scum that were presenting themselves as the Labour Party, so I jumped ship and sailed off to Canada, all Thanks to Maggie Thatcher, I could no more live under her regimes than under Stalins... I thought things would get bad, little did I know how bad.

Remember that "Mad Cow Disease" ? well... who do you think the first mad cow was ? yea, you got it, Maggie Thatcher, it came with her, and it went with her, metaphorically speaking, and with some intended sardonic humour.

Everything I have today I owe to Maggie, if it wasn't for her I'd still be in Wigin, probably out of work, watching the telly and wondering "what happened to the Labour Club" {no more cheap ale for the lads}...

Odd how some fekker so alien to your own standards can do you so much good hey, anyway, I've digressed...

The facts here are simple Lord Ahmed was jailed for dangerous driving, he was cleared of causing death by dangerous driving.

As I fully expect he would be, no doubt having a drink the next day with Lord Lucan, forgive me for my chagrin, I have nothing good to say about these r soles... Maybe I've come to the point where I have more suspicion about what The Establishment or Government says, than faith in what they say...

Most people, regardless of social class receive a fixed penalty for using a mobile while at the wheel.

My concern is that "most people" get what they deserve, yet the privaliged get served with a different spoon...

You may be correct, Lord Ahmed may have plea bargained his way out of a death by dangerous driving charge but that is done by all manner of people in courts up and down the country daily, I have done this myself on more than one occassion and I am certainly not a Lord but if you reread your initial post this was not the topic of discussion which you were inviting us all to enter into.

My intent was to point out how Lord whatever his name is, essentially got off, and I'll stick by that. Sure enough others may "wriggle their necks out of the noose", but to me if it's a Lord, or let's say a Policeman who knowinggly, repeately and blatantly ignores the Law, then they should be given a stiffer sentence. It's a bit fekkin much that r soles like Lord Ahmed take it upon themselves to impose Laws on the rest of us that they can't keep themselves !!! hence the Animal Farm quote, "we are all equal, but some of us are more equal than others".

You are correct in your statement that people earn respect and you have earned mine with your previous threads but your last post is constructed in a way which you are trying to dig yourself out of a hole, I am sorry but in the context of this thread you have failed to get your point accross.

I'll do better next time then... bear in mind this is "open expression" of how we feel about things, not Homework, there'd be something very wrong if we all felt the same...

It is a point worthy of exploring but not using this subject or if you are to use this subject perhaps checking the facts eg "the texts stopped 3 minutes before the crash" mobile phone technology is very easy to verify yet you are trying, without offering any evidence, to infer that this may not have been the case.

Now it's you that misses the point, "texts stopped 3 minutes before the crash"...

First of all I'd like to know how they timed the crash so accurately, was it really that texts stopped 3 minutes before the crash, or 3 minutes before someone dialled 999 ? maybe it was, maybe it wasn't, but I just don't trust the b*stards when it comes to "reporting the facts". The ESTABLISHMENT don't have a good record on "reporting the facts" they are much better at telling us what they want us to believe, but...

Let's say that's not the case, let's look at that statement that "texts had stopped" a REAL 3 minutes before the crash...

Is it possible at all that Lord whatever could have been responding to the earlier text, when the crash happened ? but he hadn't hit the SEND button yet ? isn't THAT a possibility ? in my book it's a probability ?

If they can lie to use about weapons of mass destruction, they won't shy away from what may have gone on here...

Finally, as for me being a socialist, well, I can't stand Tony B Liar, nor anyone else I can think of in Nu Labour, especially Ruth Kelly, the MP who took over when Roger Stott popped his clogs.

In the last 30 years I've railed against them all. Nothing has changed though, the same shyte descends from Labours central office. Like Stott, Kelly was parachuted in, and the old guard voted her in without a first or second thought, but now the majority is down to a few thousand. Seeing her ship sinking so fast like a rat she wanted to jum ship to a neighbouring ward, thankfully they didn't want her, so I hear that after Banking over a Million quid she's now "ready to retire" !!! about 30 years before you will...

How sickening these b*stards are, how sickening Nu Labour is, to drop this women on Westhoughton knowing full well of her background. She hails from Limavady {just down the road from here} a STAUNCH republican town, where today they fly the Republican flag and celebrate the hard line Republicans in banners down one side of the street and the other.

Kelly's granddfather was a staunch IRA man, in fact a high ranking official in the IRA, if I remember the story he was imprisoned for being involved in the murder of Scottish soldiers, HTF do people with this sort of background get to be elected for ANYONES Party in the UK ??? other than Sinn Fein !!!

Now if you think she's distanced herself from her heritage, have a look at the names of her kids, and her connection with Opus Dei, then tell me how any of this fits into being a socialist or whatever they call themselves there days...

Back to me, for the above reasons I don't fly anyones flag, if I don't like what I see I'll fire a broadside off at any of them, and I'm known for doing that, not just saying it... So I have no alliegiance at all, except that I respect the working class a damned site more than the b*stards who think they are Upper Class.

Maybe I should start a "Loose Canon Party" I'd fit into that...

Edited by Canada Bob
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