Livingston FC

[mainstander]

This is the second time Livi have been in adminstrateon. As far as I can see administrateon involve's being able to sack your employees even though they are in contract and being let off with a lot of you're debts. Then when the administreator decides you're OK again you become a normal business again.

Motherwell for instance did this and then carried on as if nothing had happened. They are now doing well in the SPL and have been in Europe.

Is it right that a club should be alowed to do this once never mind twice? What about all the people who are owed money and players who just get sacked?

[Harry Chibber]

I'd feel sorry for the fans of any other team , even County (maybe), but Livi deserve all they get.. 2nd rate Gretna

Livi were living well beyond their means LONG before Gretna even got into the SFL

really? :D

At least Gretna went out with a bang while Livi have been disolving very slowly for years

This is the second time Livi have been in adminstrateon. As far as I can see administrateon involve's being able to sack your employees even though they are in contract and being let off with a lot of you're debts. Then when the administreator decides you're OK again you become a normal business again.

Motherwell for instance did this and then carried on as if nothing had happened. They are now doing well in the SPL and have been in Europe.

Is it right that a club should be alowed to do this once never mind twice? What about all the people who are owed money and players who just get sacked?

No... or at least they should be penalised heavily for it

Edited July 24, 2009 by Harry Chibber

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

The SFL are as slow as Mark Yardley giving Bobby Mann a piggy back in reacting to Livvy's plight. Livvy are massively in debt, hardly any assets, and needing a complete mug to invest about ?1m before living the dream. Where is the business case for that?

Demote them by next Wednesday, advance two teams up the leagues, and if no body wants such a mismanaged club by next Friday kick them out and if possible find a replacement team e.g. Celtic Reserves/under 21s. Then at the end of the season bring in another non league side.

[TopSix]

Just heard on the radio that the situation at Livingston is 'critical'. Their players have agreed to pay for gratis tomorrow and they need their cut of the gate to stay afloat.

Ideal season, Livingston out of business, caley promoted and county down.

Edited July 24, 2009 by Top Six Next Year

[Scotty]

If the SFL have any concerns whatsoever in the ability of Livi to function as a club and fulfill all their fixtures both home and away for the coming season, then they have to go. its as simple as that. Who comes up and whether Livi can continue to function in some capacity in Div3 or whether a new team should be allowed in [bring back Clydebank] would be a separate debate.

Gretna were initially relegated to the 3rd division because of their inability to guarantee they would fulfill their fixtures and because of that punishment the one potential buyer pulled out leading to their dissolution and resignation from the league. The Livi situation may have taken longer to evolve than Gretna's but it is essentially the same thing. The current owner seems hell bent on confrontation with the council and the council dont appear to have much time for him either as this comment from the BBC website shows "Council leader Peter Johnson told BBC Scotland that a late pledge of ?100,000 from Massone was not deemed credible" [source]

If the SFL cant get an assurance from West Lothian council and the administrator that the club will be allowed to play the season at Almondvale no matter what, then the SFL surely has no choice but to impose the same punishment as they did to Gretna. Without discussing any of the personalities involved, it doesnt seem likely there will be any resolution if Massone is still at the helm so there is no way they can assure that right now !!!

Fear not though Livi fans ... like Clydebank, Airdrie United, and Gretna 2008, you too might rise like a phoenix from the ashes of a former team .... in the junior leagues.

[CaleyD]

The worst thing is, it wouldn't take much to send us or many other clubs the same way.

[Scotty]

indeed.

We bitch and moan about our board, and about the likes of Mike Smith etc when we have no football to talk about but the bottom line is that regardless of some decisions or actions they have taken that we perhaps dont like, or maybe dont understand, their stewardship of the club has for the most part, been pretty sound all things considered.

[CaleyD]

Whilst what you say is true Scotty, the point I'm getting at is that there's nothing...no proper governance...that prevents any clubs owners/directors from milking them of every penny (and more) and then dropping them in the chit (deliberately or otherwise).

ICT may have a "healthy" bank balance, but we are the same as Livingston insofar as we have no assets as they've all been stripped away over the years.

I like to believe the club are playing it prudent this season...but there's always that niggling worry that we'll get caught up in the "promotion at all cost" mentality and let the books slip a bit. If that happened then we could be sitting here in 12 months facing the exact same scenario as Livingston.

[Scotty]

I know - its a very fine line .....

[Renegade]

I'd feel sorry for the fans of any other team , even County (maybe), but Livi deserve all they get.. 2nd rate Gretna

Livi were living well beyond their means LONG before Gretna even got into the SFL

really?

At least Gretna went out with a bang while Livi have been disolving very slowly for years

It's better to burn out than to fade away as Neil Young once said.

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/t...ton/8170558.stm

'Livingston will go into liquidation unless present owner Angelo Massone sells his shares in the Division One club by Wednesday for just ?25,000.

McGruther said that the Italian must pay this amount by Wednesday at 1200BST or the club would cease to exist and lose its place in the Scottish Football League. '

Looks like a 9 team league unless Massone comes to his senses or the SFL do something dramatic Wednesday afternoon.

[Kirishima]

It is sad that these "owners" are allowed to run up debts, ignore bills, offer false promises, delay wages, and they are never taken to task. I think it is time the SFL, SFA and SPL set up proper guidelines and contracts for new owners, code of conducts, that make them liable if they do breach the terms, set by the above bodies. At the end of the day, ICT could be put into the hands of an individual who runs the club back to the Highland league.

The current board are frugal, and that is better than what Livi had.

As for what should happen, they are sailing dangerously close to the start of the season, and as Scotty said, if they are in any way threatening the division's certainty of 10, then act and act now. Id like them to be saved, and i think the SFL have blood on their hands, so i hope Massone is booted out...he shouldnt have a choice, thats the crazy part.

[The Fly]

Leaving aside any gloating about Livi's possible fate, this shows how effectively worthless a Scottish football club is, outside of the big few. Livi going under has the potential to make banks even more cautious, especially with clubs that don't own their ground.

[TopSix]

Leaving aside any gloating about Livi's possible fate, this shows how effectively worthless a Scottish football club is, outside of the big few. Livi going under has the potential to make banks even more cautious, especially with clubs that don't own their ground.

I can't stand Livingston and hope they are sunk come Wednesday afternoon.

If and hopefully they do go down the tube then will another club be promoted from the 2nd? If they go out of business and no club comes up, what will be the position with our season tickets? 2 free cup games?

[Ivy League]

I'd feel sorry for the fans of any other team , even County (maybe), but Livi deserve all they get.. 2nd rate Gretna

Livi were living well beyond their means LONG before Gretna even got into the SFL

really?

At least Gretna went out with a bang while Livi have been disolving very slowly for years

It's better to burn out than to fade away as Neil Young once said.

When did I say that???

[WYNESS101]

So if livi go out of business on wednesday what will happen to there games there meant to be playing this season? Each team take the full 3 points from each game

[Scotty]

according to BBC Airdrie will come back up to Div 1 and Cowdenbeath will go up to Div 2 but there will be no time to add a team to Div 3 which will run with 9 teams

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/t...ton/8171390.stm

Personally, I dont see the problem ..... They are taking the teams that were 'next in line' during the playoffs so why not just go back to those who were 'next in line' when the last teams were added to the SFL and see if they are still interested and in a position to join ? If not, ask the next team etc etc ... I am sure there are a few who would be interested, and who have their act together to join D3 at short notice.

[CaleyD]

Livi Trust Statement

?1.4 Million of debt racked up in a year.......something we should bare in mind as we take a financial punt on bouncing straight back up.

[DJS]

It really looks gloomy for them. I feel very sorry for their fans and employees. They need a big injection of new money from somebody sensible or it's goodbye Livi.

[CaleyD]

As I just posted elsewhere.....even if they managed to get a CVA at 15p/?1 then they're looking at ?300,000 to clear that (after you factor in administrator costs etc).

On top of that they are going to need a fair chunk of working capital as nobody is going to give them credit terms on anything....plus whatever work needs done to get their safety certificate etc.

Even on a conservative guess I would say they're looking for someone willing to risk ?500k to get the club out of the hole it's in, and you'd have to be fairly mad to stick that kind of money into a club with no assets.....they're trying to get rid of one madman, do they want another?

[CELTIC1CALEY3]

They also have a dispersed fan base heavily dotted with huge patches of blue, green and purple. The little islands of Livi supporters have been duped by Massone in many ways most recently those foolish enough to buy their season tickets at a loss leader price. The SFL must surely vet chairmen in future for their true worth and require all members to post accounts by 31 May each year. All accounts should be made public to stop tycoons spinning illusionary dreams in front of unsuspecting supporters and regulatory bodies.

[RiG]

*Massone poised to miss deadline*

This guy is an utter balloon

My decision is to continue to work hard for Livingston Football Club and to find a solution. Now is the time to try to run the business, not to close the business immediately.

No. The time to run the business was when you took it over last summer. You then started missing payments to players, companies and rent. That was definitely the time to start doing something about it! To then go on and miss more payments to players, not pay more rent and bills (electricity being one example recently) and end up in this sorry state then claim now is the time to start tunning the club is incomprehensible. This charlatan has shown next to no interest in running Livingston.

This guy is in his own little world. The Livi fans hate him and want him out, he has been banned from posting on their forum and what they want is perfectly clear yet he still persists in hanging around like a bad smell and is on the verge of driving the club he claims to work so hard for into the ground. I'm actually starting to feel sorry for the Livi fans a bit. Surely he would rather take ?25,000 and leave than get nothing and consign Livingston to the history books.

[Scotty]

believe he could buy a different business for 25K

[CaleyD]

The problem here is that Massone cares more for his ego than he does for Livingston FC. Taking the ?25k would be an admission of guilt and his ego won't allow him to do that. The money, of which he would only get a small fraction as part of the syndicate, is chump change and the thought of getting nothing other than what he could perhaps claim via any CVA will not have entered into his thinking in this at all.

It looks to me like he'd rather see Livingston liquidated and hold on to the "Everyone was against me and nobody gave me a proper chance to turn things around" line, than admit that he's got the club in to one helluva mess and walk away and allow someone else be the saviour.

[ilpadrino]

At least Gretna went out with a bang while Livi have been disolving very slowly for years

It's better to burn out than to fade away as Neil Young once said.

So what is 63-year-old Neil Young doing these days?