Dee Day For Butcher?

[Johnboy]

Unfortunately I don't think we (ICT) have the luxury of being able to choose what will happen...one way or the other.

I suspect what little we had in the bank at the start of the season is all but gone and we won't be able to pay off one manager and appoint another. I also suspect that we'll see another round of cost cuts at the end of the season...and maybe even some in January...where the squad size will be cut as much as possible.

Whether we can afford anything other than a young unexperienced manager come the end of the season will very likely be another deciding factor on how things pan out. It's pretty unreasonable for us to expect people to stay, even if they would like too, when they can probably command a good bit more elsewhere.

This club is very much a victim of it's own poor decision making and management over the past 7 or 8 years and without some radical changes and major new sources of investment then any ideas we might have about appointing proven managers and players in the foreseeable future is pure folly.

We've no money in the bank, we've no assets to borrow against and our contract policy means that even our best players are worth very little in the transfer market. As a result we don't have the luxury of choice or decision making, so it matters not a jot what any of us want as we're very much relying on what card fate deals us next.

Sadly, Im in complete agreement with all of that.

Instead of worrying about how long TB can remain here as manager, and who might replace him, perhaps we should be worrying more about whether ICT can actually survive as a going concern.

It is very worrying, and the wall of silence from those charged with running the club doesn't exactly help matters.

[starchief]

We should be fine with the money we banked in transfer fees for Vigurs (?75k), Black (?250k), Cowie (?250k), Marius (?400k) and Rankin (?250k). I know we should have got more but rather that than nothing.

[Caley Stan]

Win or lose on Saturday, i would love to see Butcher stay and try to develop this team. I think that 27 points out of the first 18 games isn't bad going when you consider how many new, largely inexperienced players, he has brought into the team. I predict that we will pick up more than 27 points in the second half the season and finish comfortably in the top 4 without ever threatening Dundee's romp. To me, that would constitute a decent season in the circumstances, and contract extensions for the management team and a few of the young players would be in order. Unfortunately, as Caley D has outlined, financial problems may prevent us from building in this way.

[caleyboy]

We should be fine with the money we banked in transfer fees for Vigurs (?75k), Black (?250k), Cowie (?250k), Marius (?400k) and Rankin (?250k). I know we should have got more but rather that than nothing.

Are you winding us up "starchief"? I must have been asleep when the transfer figures were announced!

[Joe DiMaggio]

The league is already over as far as we are concerned. As I said on the Dunfermline match thread - we are 12 points (4 wins) behind Dundee. To catch them they will have to lose at least another 4 games this season. They won't.

Yes they will, they will prob drop more than enough points for us to win the league but then we would need to win nearly every game to do so and it's that part that is never going to happen. We will drop more points throughout the season and wont be close to to Dundee come the end I think.

[acharacleoracle]

For me its not just this Saturdays game thats important , Dundee, then County followed by Motherwell in the cup, the next three Saturdays will shape our season.

Confident?, no.

[Harry Chibber]

We should be fine with the money we banked in transfer fees for Vigurs (?75k), Black (?250k), Cowie (?250k), Marius (?400k) and Rankin (?250k). I know we should have got more but rather that than nothing.

Are you winding us up "starchief"? I must have been asleep when the transfer figures were announced!

That's what we should have received as a minimum.... fcuking disgrace that the 5 players listed we only managed to obtain a fee for one of them and then then that one (Marius) to sue us for every penny we made

If it wasn't my club it would be funny

[MabawswaRichie]

Yes they will, they will prob drop more than enough points for us to win the league but then we would need to win nearly every game to do so and it's that part that is never going to happen. We will drop more points throughout the season and wont be close to to Dundee come the end I think.

No, they won't.

[Guest Mahonio]

The league is already over as far as we are concerned. As I said on the Dunfermline match thread - we are 12 points (4 wins) behind Dundee. To catch them they will have to lose at least another 4 games this season. They won't.

Yes they will, they will prob drop more than enough points for us to win the league but then we would need to win nearly every game to do so and it's that part that is never going to happen. We will drop more points throughout the season and wont be close to to Dundee come the end I think.

If i were Butcher, i would put this post up in the dressing room somewhere and let them see it, especially the bit in bold as it would be motivation for them.

Come on, what is it with the negativity at this club nowadays, even i am confident we CAN WIN THE LEAGUE, now call it madness or whatever you like but i like to be positive.

COME ON LADS, YOU CAN DO IT!!!

[PullMyFinger]

The league is already over as far as we are concerned. As I said on the Dunfermline match thread - we are 12 points (4 wins) behind Dundee. To catch them they will have to lose at least another 4 games this season. They won't.

Yes they will, they will prob drop more than enough points for us to win the league but then we would need to win nearly every game to do so and it's that part that is never going to happen. We will drop more points throughout the season and wont be close to to Dundee come the end I think.

If i were Butcher, i would put this post up in the dressing room somewhere and let them see it, especially the bit in bold as it would be motivation for them.

Come on, what is it with the negativity at this club nowadays, even i am confident we CAN WIN THE LEAGUE, now call it madness or whatever you like but i like to be positive.

COME ON LADS, YOU CAN DO IT!!!

Good post Mahonio, we can only hope Butcher reads this forum.

[davie]

The league is already over as far as we are concerned. As I said on the Dunfermline match thread - we are 12 points (4 wins) behind Dundee. To catch them they will have to lose at least another 4 games this season. They won't.

Yes they will, they will prob drop more than enough points for us to win the league but then we would need to win nearly every game to do so and it's that part that is never going to happen. We will drop more points throughout the season and wont be close to to Dundee come the end I think.

If i were Butcher, i would put this post up in the dressing room somewhere and let them see it, especially the bit in bold as it would be motivation for them.

Come on, what is it with the negativity at this club nowadays, even i am confident we CAN WIN THE LEAGUE, now call it madness or whatever you like but i like to be positive.

COME ON LADS, YOU CAN DO IT!!!

Good post Mahonio, we can only hope Butcher reads this forum.

I'm wi you guys here. I've never subscribed to the negativity around here, never will. Win the next two games and everything & anything becomes possible. I'm sure that scumdee are really looking forward to this one, what with the weather and away from families on christmas day etc. We won't get a better chance to get a charge going. Maintain that with our mutant cousinson ne'er day and Mahonio's right. Merry Christmas me hearties!

[Council Juice]

We should be fine with the money we banked in transfer fees for Vigurs (?75k), Black (?250k), Cowie (?250k), Marius (?400k) and Rankin (?250k). I know we should have got more but rather that than nothing.

Are you winding us up "starchief"? I must have been asleep when the transfer figures were announced!

Eh try ?100k for rankin, 100k for Cowie, nothing for black (bosman) nothing for Vigurs (released therefore not entitled to compensation)

Rankin Black and Cowie easily worth a million if sold at premium.

[starchief]

We should be fine with the money we banked in transfer fees for Vigurs (?75k), Black (?250k), Cowie (?250k), Marius (?400k) and Rankin (?250k). I know we should have got more but rather that than nothing.

Are you winding us up "starchief"? I must have been asleep when the transfer figures were announced!

Eh try ?100k for rankin, 100k for Cowie, nothing for black (bosman) nothing for Vigurs (released therefore not entitled to compensation)

Rankin Black and Cowie easily worth a million if sold at premium.

Sorry, I credited some posters with too much sense of subtlety

...it's like bronzey and goldey, except made of iron...

[davie]

We should be fine with the money we banked in transfer fees for Vigurs (?75k), Black (?250k), Cowie (?250k), Marius (?400k) and Rankin (?250k). I know we should have got more but rather that than nothing.

Are you winding us up "starchief"? I must have been asleep when the transfer figures were announced!

Eh try ?100k for rankin, 100k for Cowie, nothing for black (bosman) nothing for Vigurs (released therefore not entitled to compensation)

Rankin Black and Cowie easily worth a million if sold at premium.

Sorry, I credited some posters with too much sense of subtlety

...it's like bronzey and goldey, except made of iron...

kwaaalitee dude!

[Scarlet Pimple]

Well, there you have it and Caley D has more or less put it in a nutshell.

Just a few more points, however:-

a. TB is not the team and therefore is not entirely responsible for all the negative results.

b. He knew he had a tough nut to crack when he came here and I don't think he would just walk away form ICT if he thought for a moment that , to better himself, he would have to leave ICT in the lurch.

c. In view of a. and b.(above) it must be acknowledged that, under the terms of the contract that he signed onto, both parties have reponsibilities to each other. i.e. if he thinks that he has done his best with the shambles that he inherited then he is quite entitled to EXPECT to be paid out in full for the remaining portion of his Agreement if ICT were to foolishly consider sacking him.

d.The pay out of the remainder of his contract to get rid of him would leave ICT not a jot further forward, and would simply add more chaos to the mix. In addition to exacerbating the negative financial picture/resources, it would merely add total confusion to the playing team and probably lead to a demoralisation of the players that would lead to more defeats . Also It would then be very difficult to get any Manager worth his salt to take over without another barrowload of money having to be paid out to him personally AND to allow him to rebuild with quality , expensive, players--which the club probably do not have , so then what?

Regardless of whether ICT win tomorrow or not, TB has to stay and will stay until the end of the season so, as I have said before, the only positive thing that the fans can do now is to support him ,and the team, to the hilt......and PRAY.

But,then again, :dunno: I'm only a Pimple. :P

Just enjoy the game folks , tomorrow, it could be a belter. C'mon ICT.

[Council Juice]

We should be fine with the money we banked in transfer fees for Vigurs (?75k), Black (?250k), Cowie (?250k), Marius (?400k) and Rankin (?250k). I know we should have got more but rather that than nothing.

Are you winding us up "starchief"? I must have been asleep when the transfer figures were announced!

Eh try ?100k for rankin, 100k for Cowie, nothing for black (bosman) nothing for Vigurs (released therefore not entitled to compensation)

Rankin Black and Cowie easily worth a million if sold at premium.

Sorry, I credited some posters with too much sense of subtlety

...it's like bronzey and goldey, except made of iron...

Oh sorry my mistake, I seem to have overlooked your rapier wit

[Alex MacLeod]

For me its not just this Saturdays game thats important , Dundee, then County followed by Motherwell in the cup, the next three Saturdays will shape our season.

Confident?, no.

As far as the cup game goes we could be lucky. Motherwell are dire just now. Dundee haven't beat us in the league yet and County is a must win to save embarrassment. As for winning the league I think its now going to be very difficult though not yet impossible. Dundee will drop many more points but we must gain.

[Scotty]

This is a tight league and nothing is over until it is over !!!

We still have to play Dundee twice so there's 2 cup finals that we should not need any additional motivation for and 6 points clawed back if TB and the players can outsmart Jocky and his lads. That leaves 6 points more to claw back. Look at the league table .... Dundee may only have lost 1 game but they have drawn 7 and each drawn match is another 2 points they didnt get !!! 3 draws and the 12 point gap is potentially gone.

Like other theories though, that 12 point clawback is dependent on ICT starting to string together some results and I fear it is our (and other teams) inability to be consistent rather than Dundee's alleged "class" that will see the title end up at Dens Park (or Firhill) come May. (I dont think County or QOS have the depth to sustain their challenges)

[EWS]

Nice to know that despite being away for 5 weeks, nothing has changed.

[stu1984]

well if there is all this financial doom and gloom at the club,why was the undersoil heating on for the game at the weekend,if they couldnt afford it then it wouldnt have been switched on. undersoil heating isnt a requirement in the sfl and at a cost of 3k an hour to run (info from a very good source) i think this is quite a financial outgoing for the club that wasnt necessary. im with the 1's on here that say ''KEEP BELIEVING'' at least until it is not possible to gain promotion points wise.

[CaleyD]

?3K an hour to run USH :angry: - Your source is extracting the urine me thinks....either that or ICT are heating the whole of Inverness and that's why our finances are, allegedly, so bad.

If, as is being suggested, the finances are so tight and the club are operating hand to mouth then that would be the main reason as to why they would use it. Running it for a day or two would save them more money than they would lose from a reduced crowd at a re-arranged mid-week fixture.

?3k in total (USH, snow shovels, grit etc) to ensure the fixture went ahead would probably be a fair estimate. You only need to lose a couple of hundred off the gate and postponing becomes the more expensive option.

[12th Man]

Nice to know that despite being away for 5 weeks, nothing has changed.

Porterfield ? or did you have to stay further afield

well if there is all this financial doom and gloom at the club,why was the undersoil heating on for the game at the weekend,if they couldnt afford it then it wouldnt have been switched on. undersoil heating isnt a requirement in the sfl and at a cost of 3k an hour to run (info from a very good source) i think this is quite a financial outgoing for the club that wasnt necessary. im with the 1's on here that say ''KEEP BELIEVING'' at least until it is not possible to gain promotion points wise.

At 3k an hour I would change energy suppliers.

[caleykid1994]

Nice to know that despite being away for 5 weeks, nothing has changed.

Porterfield ? or did you have to stay further afield

well if there is all this financial doom and gloom at the club,why was the undersoil heating on for the game at the weekend,if they couldnt afford it then it wouldnt have been switched on. undersoil heating isnt a requirement in the sfl and at a cost of 3k an hour to run (info from a very good source) i think this is quite a financial outgoing for the club that wasnt necessary. im with the 1's on here that say ''KEEP BELIEVING'' at least until it is not possible to gain promotion points wise.

At 3k an hour I would change energy suppliers.

I very much doubt at ?3,000 AN HOUR that even the SPL wouldnt be happy with that! More likely to be in the region of ?50-?100 an hour.

[Scotty]

According to an "Inditherm" manual the costs are nothing like that ! Inditherm is the type used at the Falkirk stadium and at Chelsea, not sure what we have but it gives comparison costs.

Data_Sheet___Pitch_Heating___Natural_Grass___GB.pdf

[Council Juice]

I think the point might be is other teams in a financially tight spot have, in the past, "forgotten" to turn their heating on so that it was all due to the mercy of the elements. Perhaps our willingness to turn the power on shows that while we may have no pennies to spend we are not in the lavvy pan yet.