The Scotsman Sutherland interview.

[Harry Chibber]

One comment that caught my eye was this and how depressing it was to read it,

"There are enough players around the British market for us to continue to be competitive within a budget."

Has Sutherland adopted the Butcher ethos and will the ICT become a local free zone?.

If budget is a consideration then we need to design a team around local lads that have come through the youth system, right now this is not happening, the local lads routinely get dumped aged 17-19 and the full time places given to players from the south and beyond. We want to see a few local heroes instead of the rubbish Butcher has brought in, there is very little to get excited about right now.

Fair point and something I didn't think of when first reading the article.

My mate is forever saying that our downfall is due to the foreigners in the squad... I find it difficult agreeing that an Irish/english contingent can have that much difficulty adapting to the Scottish game but maybe he has a point regarding Zadi, Bully & Sanchez ..... Perhaps we should adopt a similar approach as Athletic Bilbao who literally will not play any player unless they are from the Basque country.

[ictchris]

Perhaps we should adopt a similar approach as Athletic Bilbao who literally will not play any player unless they are from the Basque country.

I'd rather we didn't base our team on where someone was born. Presumably you wouldn't want Barry Wilson to ever have played for us as he was born in Fife, or Ross Tokely as he is from Aberdeen?

[DAM]

Perhaps we should adopt a similar approach as Athletic Bilbao who literally will not play any player unless they are from the Basque country.

I'd rather we didn't base our team on where someone was born. Presumably you wouldn't want Barry Wilson to ever have played for us as he was born in Fife, or Ross Tokely as he is from Aberdeen?

I don't think that's what Harry meant.

[RiG]

I'd rather we didn't base our team on where someone was born. Presumably you wouldn't want Barry Wilson to ever have played for us as he was born in Fife, or Ross Tokely as he is from Aberdeen?

I'm always up for a ban on Fifers.

[DAM]

I'd rather we didn't base our team on where someone was born. Presumably you wouldn't want Barry Wilson to ever have played for us as he was born in Fife, or Ross Tokely as he is from Aberdeen?

I'm always up for a ban on Fifers.

Especially those who exceed the speed limit!

[Harry Chibber]

Perhaps we should adopt a similar approach as Athletic Bilbao who literally will not play any player unless they are from the Basque country.

I'd rather we didn't base our team on where someone was born. Presumably you wouldn't want Barry Wilson to ever have played for us as he was born in Fife, or Ross Tokely as he is from Aberdeen?

To be fair the basque country is probably the size of Scotland (I haven't checked)

It's a bit idealistic but I imagine it would offer tremendous benefits for team spirit (us against them attitude).. and if you are promoting from within the club would always be working at a profit for transfer revenue... it does have advantages.

all I'm saying is would I prefer we concentrated on our youth players instead of trying to import cheap (not so good) players..

[+Tree]

To be fair the basque country is probably the size of Scotland (I haven't checked)

It's a bit idealistic but I imagine it would offer tremendous benefits for team spirit (us against them attitude).. and if you are promoting from within the club would always be working at a profit for transfer revenue... it does have advantages.

all I'm saying is would I prefer we concentrated on our youth players instead of trying to import cheap (not so good) players..

I suspect that no club has a policy which intentionally attempts to put poor quality foreign imports ahead of locally sourced players.

The reality is that a large catchment of football playing kids is needed to give any hope to being able to sustain a successful team simply with local players which even if in our case this means the whole of the Highlands (inlcuding the Western and Northern Isles).

The area is not populous enough not do we have unrestricted call on the talent either with County, Aberdeen and the Old Firm also scouting this area.

The reality is that we need to have a solid youth and community structure combined with adding players from outwith the area.

[ictchris]

To be fair the basque country is probably the size of Scotland (I haven't checked)

It's a bit idealistic but I imagine it would offer tremendous benefits for team spirit (us against them attitude).. and if you are promoting from within the club would always be working at a profit for transfer revenue... it does have advantages.

all I'm saying is would I prefer we concentrated on our youth players instead of trying to import cheap (not so good) players..

Have we ever made money from selling on a youth player? We brought in guys like Xausa, Wilson, Robson, Brown, Cowie on free transfers from other clubs and sold them on.

When you consider the market at the moment and the lack of anyone spending cash on transfer fees, the cost of running a youth system is such that you'd have to sell on a couple of players for a large fee every year and I don't think that would happen.

Edited February 10, 2010 by ictchris

[PullMyFinger]

To be fair the basque country is probably the size of Scotland (I haven't checked)

It's on a par with Grampian Region, which is irrelevant as it's the population that's important. They have a population of around 3 million to choose from, that's 360 per sq mile compared to our 21 per sq mile.

Maybe we should try looking there?

[Yngwie]

Probably wouldn't be the first time we'd had a basque in the dressing room!

[Harry Chibber]

Have we ever made money from selling on a youth player? We brought in guys like Xausa, Wilson, Robson, Brown, Cowie on free transfers from other clubs and sold them on.

When you consider the market at the moment and the lack of anyone spending cash on transfer fees, the cost of running a youth system is such that you'd have to sell on a couple of players for a large fee every year and I don't think that would happen.

Just because we haven't doesn't mean the process is flawed.... Hibs for example, about 12 million in the last 4 years all from players they developed through their youth academy. Think it paid for itself...

I'm not trying to suggest we only rely on youth players but think of them as our first option and if not good enough then look to bring someone else in. Vigurs & Wood are a perfect example.. we paid for their development only for County to enjoy the benefits.. in replacement we paid contracts for Eagles & Obdhiambo, if Butcher was being honest I'm sure he would have preferred to hold on to the former and used the money more economically

If we were more patient as a support with Rory McAllister and encouraged him instead of getting on his back who's to say he wouldn't be firing goals in for us at the moment???

[acharacleoracle]

I'd rather we adopted the ethos of playing the best players, regardless of where they come from.

You are entitled to your opinion but some of us feel that after 16 years in senior football there should be at least 4-5 players from the area making regular first team appearances.

[stevico1]

[*]

[*]"I will always help the club out not if, but when, that is needed," he said. "But we have a pretty focused and wealthy board in place at Caley Thistle now."

[*]What has the "wealth" of the board got to do with anything? If they are so wealthy and we have money in the bank and such like then why are there so many examples that when taken separately might seem innocuous, but when lumped together seem to indicate that all might not be as rosy as we are being led to believe. As the major shareholder in the club, why is he also not pressuring the board to answer the questions of the rank and file shareholders and dispel these scurrilous rumours?

[

My reading of that is he doesn't need/want anybody else on the board or to invest., he has got the board he wants in place and that it is a very much a closed shop now

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Personally I feel that the better teams have always had a mixture of experienced pros, good buys and a smattering of local talent - especially in the squad. That is consderably more required and/or acheivable in the SFL and even in the SPL.

[CaleyD]

There's a lot of talk surrounding the amount of talent we have in our youth setup at the moment. However I fear that we will lose the vast majority of them as no clear path from Youth to Full Team at ICT just now. Our U19's are made up of a handful of players and having been heavily cropped last summer I'm not sure there's any desire amongst the powers who be to expand that or open it up to anything more than we see at present.....regardless of the potential which exists among those who would benefit from it, and ultimately bring benefits to the team/club as a whole.

[Sorted]

[*]

[*]"I will always help the club out not if, but when, that is needed," he said. "But we have a pretty focused and wealthy board in place at Caley Thistle now."

[*]What has the "wealth" of the board got to do with anything? If they are so wealthy and we have money in the bank and such like then why are there so many examples that when taken separately might seem innocuous, but when lumped together seem to indicate that all might not be as rosy as we are being led to believe. As the major shareholder in the club, why is he also not pressuring the board to answer the questions of the rank and file shareholders and dispel these scurrilous rumours?

[

My reading of that is he doesn't need/want anybody else on the board or to invest., he has got the board he wants in place and that it is a very much a closed shop now

I think that those willing to invest should come forward now and have their proposals scrutinised by the Trust and CTO to make sure they are the "right type". Perhaps we could get them all in a room, Kingsmills suite, listen to their plans, what they want in return and hear their five year plan. They also have the ideal opportunity to replace FlyBe as sponsors.

Don't all rush ........

[stevico1]

[*]

[*]"I will always help the club out not if, but when, that is needed," he said. "But we have a pretty focused and wealthy board in place at Caley Thistle now."

[*]What has the "wealth" of the board got to do with anything? If they are so wealthy and we have money in the bank and such like then why are there so many examples that when taken separately might seem innocuous, but when lumped together seem to indicate that all might not be as rosy as we are being led to believe. As the major shareholder in the club, why is he also not pressuring the board to answer the questions of the rank and file shareholders and dispel these scurrilous rumours?

[

My reading of that is he doesn't need/want anybody else on the board or to invest., he has got the board he wants in place and that it is a very much a closed shop now

I think that those willing to invest should come forward now and have their proposals scrutinised by the Trust and CTO to make sure they are the "right type". Perhaps we could get them all in a room, Kingsmills suite, listen to their plans, what they want in return and hear their five year plan. They also have the ideal opportunity to replace FlyBe as sponsors.

Don't all rush ........

There are those that have already bought substantial shares and have spent thousands on sponsorship and have no place on the board so what chance does anyone else...like I said closed shop and unless you agree with the shopkeeper you are locked out.

[Sorted]

[*]

[*]"I will always help the club out not if, but when, that is needed," he said. "But we have a pretty focused and wealthy board in place at Caley Thistle now."

[*]What has the "wealth" of the board got to do with anything? If they are so wealthy and we have money in the bank and such like then why are there so many examples that when taken separately might seem innocuous, but when lumped together seem to indicate that all might not be as rosy as we are being led to believe. As the major shareholder in the club, why is he also not pressuring the board to answer the questions of the rank and file shareholders and dispel these scurrilous rumours?

[

My reading of that is he doesn't need/want anybody else on the board or to invest., he has got the board he wants in place and that it is a very much a closed shop now

I think that those willing to invest should come forward now and have their proposals scrutinised by the Trust and CTO to make sure they are the "right type". Perhaps we could get them all in a room, Kingsmills suite, listen to their plans, what they want in return and hear their five year plan. They also have the ideal opportunity to replace FlyBe as sponsors.

Don't all rush ........

There are those that have already bought substantial shares and have spent thousands on sponsorship and have no place on the board so what chance does anyone else...like I said closed shop and unless you agree with the shopkeeper you are locked out.

I was thinking more along the lines of buying the shop, stock, fixtures and fittings. This would obviously involve a change of shopkeeper and new locks.

There must be someone out there willing to put a serious investment on the table. It has been mentioned on various other threads that lots of well intentioned, well heeled benefactors are out there, desperate to get in and being constantly denied. If they came out of the woodwork, showed us their buy out/investment proposal, five year business plan on/off the pitch, method for wiping out the debt secured against the Stadium thereby returning it to the club debt free et al I, like many others would love it.

The problem is, I don't think they exist as if they did, surely they would have gone public by now?

Am I wrong?

Edited February 12, 2010 by Sorted

[Scotty]

No I dont think you are wrong, however what I do think is happening is that the discussion is drifting from being about a couple of legitimate questions asked of the board/major shareholder to something it is not, which is a buyout, takeover, or running DFS out of town with pitchforks at the ready.

Lest it be forgotten, the original questions were

1. What is the status of the stadium and the charitable trust set up to service the debt ? If it is not in the hands of the Charitable Trust, why, when and how was this done and on whose authority?

2. Are Caley Thistle in any immediate major financial difficulty as has been suggested/rumoured? If so, what is the action plan to generate more income or investment and get through it?

The answers to these questions - if they ever come - do not necessarily mean that the board or DFS have to skulk away or sell shares ..... unless some skullduggery is uncovered.

[Sorted]

No I dont think you are wrong, however what I do think is happening is that the discussion is drifting from being about a couple of legitimate questions asked of the board/major shareholder to something it is not, which is a buyout, takeover, or running DFS out of town with pitchforks at the ready.

Lest it be forgotten, the original questions were

1. What is the status of the stadium and the charitable trust set up to service the debt ? If it is not in the hands of the Charitable Trust, why, when and how was this done and on whose authority?

2. Are Caley Thistle in any immediate major financial difficulty as has been suggested/rumoured? If so, what is the action plan to generate more income or investment and get through it?

The answers to these questions - if they ever come - do not necessarily mean that the board or DFS have to skulk away or sell shares ..... unless some skullduggery is uncovered.

Fair comment and I agree that answers should be given pronto.

Perhaps I should start a thread entitled "The Excluded: I Wanted To Invest But He Wouldn't Let Me". This would give all those would be white knights the ideal platform to enlighten us. I get tired of the "he would do this" and "he offered that" nonsense and just wish that same levels of scrutiny that we rightly demand of our custodians was applied to those would be suitors and their stalking horses.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

No I dont think you are wrong, however what I do think is happening is that the discussion is drifting from being about a couple of legitimate questions asked of the board/major shareholder to something it is not, which is a buyout, takeover, or running DFS out of town with pitchforks at the ready.

Lest it be forgotten, the original questions were

1. What is the status of the stadium and the charitable trust set up to service the debt ? If it is not in the hands of the Charitable Trust, why, when and how was this done and on whose authority?

2. Are Caley Thistle in any immediate major financial difficulty as has been suggested/rumoured? If so, what is the action plan to generate more income or investment and get through it?

The answers to these questions - if they ever come - do not necessarily mean that the board or DFS have to skulk away or sell shares ..... unless some skullduggery is uncovered.

Fair comment and I agree that answers should be given pronto.

Perhaps I should start a thread entitled "The Excluded: I Wanted To Invest But He Wouldn't Let Me". This would give all those would be white knights the ideal platform to enlighten us. I get tired of the "he would do this" and "he offered that" nonsense and just wish that same levels of scrutiny that we rightly demand of our custodians was applied to those would be suitors and their stalking horses.

Most of the feckin answers have been posted fer feckin months - If I would invest I would want peeple running the feckin club who were clued up about running a football club and didnt look after the chosen ones and spoke to the fans and werent feckin muppets.

[Sorted]

No I dont think you are wrong, however what I do think is happening is that the discussion is drifting from being about a couple of legitimate questions asked of the board/major shareholder to something it is not, which is a buyout, takeover, or running DFS out of town with pitchforks at the ready.

Lest it be forgotten, the original questions were

1. What is the status of the stadium and the charitable trust set up to service the debt ? If it is not in the hands of the Charitable Trust, why, when and how was this done and on whose authority?

2. Are Caley Thistle in any immediate major financial difficulty as has been suggested/rumoured? If so, what is the action plan to generate more income or investment and get through it?

The answers to these questions - if they ever come - do not necessarily mean that the board or DFS have to skulk away or sell shares ..... unless some skullduggery is uncovered.

Fair comment and I agree that answers should be given pronto.

Perhaps I should start a thread entitled "The Excluded: I Wanted To Invest But He Wouldn't Let Me". This would give all those would be white knights the ideal platform to enlighten us. I get tired of the "he would do this" and "he offered that" nonsense and just wish that same levels of scrutiny that we rightly demand of our custodians was applied to those would be suitors and their stalking horses.

Most of the feckin answers have been posted fer feckin months - If I would invest I would want peeple running the feckin club who were clued up about running a football club and didnt look after the chosen ones and spoke to the fans and werent feckin muppets.

You are right about having your own people in post and that would, like any other business transaction, follow when the transaction completes it would be fair to assume.

Haven't been knocked over in the rush to come forward have we?

[CaleyD]

I can't see too many people keen to knock the door down to invest after witnessing the way Alan Savage was treated...can you?

[Yngwie]

I know Savage left fairly acrimoniously, but that in itself does not mean he was treated badly, does it?

An 11% stake and a place on the board might build expectations but doesn't actually buy much power, that's the trouble with that sort of investment.

[Sorted]

I can't see too many people keen to knock the door down to invest after witnessing the way Alan Savage was treated...can you?

How was he treated? I don't know and you do, so you obviously have the advantage.