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From what I can see, this ABE thing is one of these smokescreens that show up from time to time. It's a great cloke to hide behind for the dimwitted racist morons to spout their views. That's not to say that everyone who supports ABE is a racist, but for everyone who has racist views towards England, it's a great platform.

Renegade....Scots cant be "Racist" against the English, as we stem from the same racial group...ie indo european

Such intolerance...in extreme cases could be deemed Bigoted tho....but methinks in most cases....specially on here.. can be attributed to simple, good old fasihioned, sporting rivalry!

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Birdog, I used to live in Andover, many moons ago. Nice place.

Joe, You miss my point. I don't expect Scots to support English. What I would expect is for it to be irrelevant to you how England do in the cup. To not care either way but all the hatred really beggars belief sometimes. I feel that some people go way over the top when there really is no need.

For someone to come out and say they support Algeria because they are playing England is laughable (TSTtiger). Can you even name one of their players? Do you even know where it is? :rolleyes:

you dont seem like you find it funny. if you cannot understand why many scots will be supporting englands opponents then maybe you dont know much about football and its rivalrys.you cant seriously expect how a nations biggest rivals results go to be irrelevant can you.

its not like its a phenomenon only found between scotland and england :D

what i think beggars belief is why some people get so upset about it.why cant

oh and madjid bougherra is my hero , well for 90 mins anyway :D not that it matters really how many players i know, you see thats the thing about A.B.E

Now I realise why you support Algeria. You must be from there as it's obvious your first language isn't English. :rolleyes:

yes , very good oz, you cut me deep. when you dont like my point of view your infactuation with the way i write on a football forum continues . :rolleyes:

i'm happy to debate the thread topic with you but if you wish to continue keep up the personal attacks literacy just do it through p.m. so we dont get another interesting thread needlessly closed. i might even use capital letters when appropriate as a gesture of goodwill and try not to make any typos :)

Failed miserably but never mind. I know all about rivalry in football. As I've already stated, I don't expect Scots to support England. As I've also stated, I don't really care if you support other teams. What baffles me is why there is so much hate involved. For example, Joe Dimaggio says he can't stand the English fans. Why? Does he know all of them personally and know them all to be tossers? No, obviously not. He probably has friends who happen to be English. So why come out with the vile hatred rubbish? We all know and accept that the thing people dislike most is the English media and all it's hype. The fans don't deserve your hatred. If you don't know them how can you hate them?

To be honest with you, ABE is a joke as well. If for example Germany play England, you will support Germany. Even though Germany bombed Scotland during the war. If Argentina play England, You will support Argentina. Even though many Scottish soldiers were killed during the Falklands war. I could go on but you get the message. I know you may well come out with battles faught between Scotland/England but these were all way before any of us came along. The ones I've mentioned are still in living memory and may influence people's thoughts.

As for the point about getting upset by it, sorry to disappoint you but nothing you could say or do would ever upset me. If it did, it would mean that I find it important and believe me, I don't. B)

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Failed miserably but never mind. I know all about rivalry in football. As I've already stated, I don't expect Scots to support England. As I've also stated, I don't really care if you support other teams. What baffles me is why there is so much hate involved. For example, Joe Dimaggio says he can't stand the English fans. Why? Does he know all of them personally and know them all to be tossers? No, obviously not. He probably has friends who happen to be English. So why come out with the vile hatred rubbish? We all know and accept that the thing people dislike most is the English media and all it's hype. The fans don't deserve your hatred. If you don't know them how can you hate them?

To be honest with you, ABE is a joke as well. If for example Germany play England, you will support Germany. Even though Germany bombed Scotland during the war. If Argentina play England, You will support Argentina. Even though many Scottish soldiers were killed during the Falklands war. I could go on but you get the message. I know you may well come out with battles faught between Scotland/England but these were all way before any of us came along. The ones I've mentioned are still in living memory and may influence people's thoughts.

As for the point about getting upset by it, sorry to disappoint you but nothing you could say or do would ever upset me. If it did, it would mean that I find it important and believe me, I don't. :rolleyes:

You don't really do yourselves many favours now, do you?

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Failed miserably but never mind. I know all about rivalry in football. As I've already stated, I don't expect Scots to support England. As I've also stated, I don't really care if you support other teams. What baffles me is why there is so much hate involved. For example, Joe Dimaggio says he can't stand the English fans. Why? Does he know all of them personally and know them all to be tossers? No, obviously not. He probably has friends who happen to be English. So why come out with the vile hatred rubbish? We all know and accept that the thing people dislike most is the English media and all it's hype. The fans don't deserve your hatred. If you don't know them how can you hate them?

To be honest with you, ABE is a joke as well. If for example Germany play England, you will support Germany. Even though Germany bombed Scotland during the war. If Argentina play England, You will support Argentina. Even though many Scottish soldiers were killed during the Falklands war. I could go on but you get the message. I know you may well come out with battles faught between Scotland/England but these were all way before any of us came along. The ones I've mentioned are still in living memory and may influence people's thoughts.

As for the point about getting upset by it, sorry to disappoint you but nothing you could say or do would ever upset me. If it did, it would mean that I find it important and believe me, I don't. :D

You don't really do yourselves many favours now, do you?

But that's not all English fans is it? I don't get into that sort of bother. I'll be the first to admit their are some right tossers that follow England but all countrys have them. It's like saying all rangers fans are tossers because of the riots in Manchester but they're not. My nephew supports rangers, he's a good lad. Unfortunately all fans are tarred with the same brush. I would quite happily sit in a bar with fans of any team and have a drink and a bit of banter. We did it when I lived in Spain. We would watch English teams playing Spanish teams and have great banter with the Spanish. The point I'm making is you can't hate all English because of a minority or at least you shouldn't. :rolleyes:

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But that's not all English fans is it? I don't get into that sort of bother. I'll be the first to admit their are some right tossers that follow England but all countrys have them. It's like saying all rangers fans are tossers because of the riots in Manchester but they're not. My nephew supports rangers, he's a good lad. Unfortunately all fans are tarred with the same brush. I would quite happily sit in a bar with fans of any team and have a drink and a bit of banter. We did it when I lived in Spain. We would watch English teams playing Spanish teams and have great banter with the Spanish. The point I'm making is you can't hate all English because of a minority or at least you shouldn't. :rolleyes:

When we are good no-one remembers, when we are bad no-one forgets.

Fly with the crows, get shot with the crows.

There are plenty of reasons for people of other countries to "hate" English fans, not so many to love them. I am not saying it is right but it happens. I think you will find that the word hate is banded about willy nilly and very few actually do hate England in the true sense of the word but English fans have a certain reputation over the world and the arrogance that goes with it is not very endearing, sorry to disappoint. The fact that you, and your fellow fans, rise to the bait so easily is very counteractive in gaining what you seek. :D

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Renegade....Scots cant be "Racist" against the English, as we stem from the same racial group...ie indo european

The English are not a race, they are a mish mash of hundreds of races mixed together over the years of the British Empire and before that it was Saxons, Normans, Celts, Romans, etc. all mixed together.

For want of a better word the English are the mongrel of the British Isles.

I don't hate the English but I do love knowing that the sooner they are out of the competition the more gloating can be had taunting those English who live up here and taunt us poor wee Scot's about not even being in the Finals. When they do get knocked out hopefully it will be by a small country with a poor Football pedigree (see what I did there? :D ) so that the level of gloat can rise away above the Royal Standard.

Anyone but England? No.

Everyone but England! :rolleyes:

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Failed miserably but never mind. I know all about rivalry in football. As I've already stated, I don't expect Scots to support England. As I've also stated, I don't really care if you support other teams. What baffles me is why there is so much hate involved. For example, Joe Dimaggio says he can't stand the English fans. Why? Does he know all of them personally and know them all to be tossers? No, obviously not. He probably has friends who happen to be English. So why come out with the vile hatred rubbish? We all know and accept that the thing people dislike most is the English media and all it's hype. The fans don't deserve your hatred. If you don't know them how can you hate them?

To be honest with you, ABE is a joke as well. If for example Germany play England, you will support Germany. Even though Germany bombed Scotland during the war. If Argentina play England, You will support Argentina. Even though many Scottish soldiers were killed during the Falklands war. I could go on but you get the message. I know you may well come out with battles faught between Scotland/England but these were all way before any of us came along. The ones I've mentioned are still in living memory and may influence people's thoughts.

As for the point about getting upset by it, sorry to disappoint you but nothing you could say or do would ever upset me. If it did, it would mean that I find it important and believe me, I don't. :D

still cant quite drop it i see. anyway, on the hatred point you make, i agree. :rolleyes: there is no need for it but i honestly don't believe there's that many fans on either side who truly hate the other, certainly as individuals. a huge amount of it is just banter, pure and simple.i think the majority of the decent english fans have been let down in the past by the hooligan element amongst the support that used to hit the headlines so often with their antics. thankfully that problem seems to have been put to bed in the last 10 years or so but i think some people still associate the fat , tattoed , fighting skin heads of the past with the country now.

with the ABE thing and the wars v germany, argentina etc, i think your missing the point and maybe taking it too seriously. i would say war time allegiances etc are pretty far from the average scottish supporters mind when they cheer on such teams. its simply anyone but england because you lot are are oldest and closest rivals and we dont want you to win!

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Renegade....Scots cant be "Racist" against the English, as we stem from the same racial group...ie indo european

The English are not a race, they are a mish mash of hundreds of races mixed together over the years of the British Empire and before that it was Saxons, Normans, Celts, Romans, etc. all mixed together.

For want of a better word the English are the mongrel of the British Isles.

I don't hate the English but I do love knowing that the sooner they are out of the competition the more gloating can be had taunting those English who live up here and taunt us poor wee Scot's about not even being in the Finals. When they do get knocked out hopefully it will be by a small country with a poor Football pedigree (see what I did there? :rolleyes: ) so that the level of gloat can rise away above the Royal Standard.

Anyone but England? No.

Everyone but England! :rolleyes:

Somebody like err.... Scotland? :D

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There's a certain logic to this ABE movement. On the rare occasions Scotland have reached the finals, Scots fans have been used to supporting a team that loses. With Scotland not there the ABE movement not only allows the fans to get their fix of seeing the team they are supporting lose, it also allows them to continue this masochistic pleasure beyond the group stages.

It would be nice to think the majority of Scots would support England but I'm know that is not going to happen. I accept that many, if not most Scots will not be supporting England but it would be so much more positive if they supported the team playing the most attractive football instead. This is, after all, meant to be the world's showcase of the beautiful game.

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Failed miserably but never mind. I know all about rivalry in football. As I've already stated, I don't expect Scots to support England. As I've also stated, I don't really care if you support other teams. What baffles me is why there is so much hate involved. For example, Joe Dimaggio says he can't stand the English fans. Why? Does he know all of them personally and know them all to be tossers? No, obviously not. He probably has friends who happen to be English. So why come out with the vile hatred rubbish? We all know and accept that the thing people dislike most is the English media and all it's hype. The fans don't deserve your hatred. If you don't know them how can you hate them?

To be honest with you, ABE is a joke as well. If for example Germany play England, you will support Germany. Even though Germany bombed Scotland during the war. If Argentina play England, You will support Argentina. Even though many Scottish soldiers were killed during the Falklands war. I could go on but you get the message. I know you may well come out with battles faught between Scotland/England but these were all way before any of us came along. The ones I've mentioned are still in living memory and may influence people's thoughts.

As for the point about getting upset by it, sorry to disappoint you but nothing you could say or do would ever upset me. If it did, it would mean that I find it important and believe me, I don't. :rolleyes:

still cant quite drop it i see. anyway, on the hatred point you make, i agree. :D there is no need for it but i honestly don't believe there's that many fans on either side who truly hate the other, certainly as individuals. a huge amount of it is just banter, pure and simple.i think the majority of the decent english fans have been let down in the past by the hooligan element amongst the support that used to hit the headlines so often with their antics. thankfully that problem seems to have been put to bed in the last 10 years or so but i think some people still associate the fat , tattoed , fighting skin heads of the past with the country now.

with the ABE thing and the wars v germany, argentina etc, i think your missing the point and maybe taking it too seriously. i would say war time allegiances etc are pretty far from the average scottish supporters mind when they cheer on such teams. its simply anyone but england because you lot are are oldest and closest rivals and we dont want you to win!

Looks in mirror and sees, large gentleman, skin head and several tattoos. :rolleyes:

I know the point about the wars was a bit OTT but I was trying to show the lack of sense in supporting these countrys.

Oh well, Let's just hope England get all the way to the final and it will be a nice quiet place on here. Well apart from me and a few others who may or may not rub it in a bit. :rolleyes:

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There's a certain logic to this ABE movement. On the rare occasions Scotland have reached the finals, Scots fans have been used to supporting a team that loses. With Scotland not there the ABE movement not only allows the fans to get their fix of seeing the team they are supporting lose, it also allows them to continue this masochistic pleasure beyond the group stages.

It would be nice to think the majority of Scots would support England but I'm know that is not going to happen. I accept that many, if not most Scots will not be supporting England but it would be so much more positive if they supported the team playing the most attractive football instead. This is, after all, meant to be the world's showcase of the beautiful game.

Football is not about the attractive football though, is it? Football is about the passion and the emotion, it's like comparing sex with a beautiful prostitute to making love to the one you adore, always better when there is some sort of feeling involved.

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Somebody like err.... Scotland? :rolleyes:

You couldn't help yourself. :D

This is where it all comes from Oz and it's great isn't it? :rolleyes:

Sorry, couldn't resist. :rolleyes:

Make no apologies for who you are Oz, it's banter plain and simple on a national scale.

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Failed miserably but never mind. I know all about rivalry in football. As I've already stated, I don't expect Scots to support England. As I've also stated, I don't really care if you support other teams. What baffles me is why there is so much hate involved. For example, Joe Dimaggio says he can't stand the English fans. Why? Does he know all of them personally and know them all to be tossers? No, obviously not. He probably has friends who happen to be English. So why come out with the vile hatred rubbish? We all know and accept that the thing people dislike most is the English media and all it's hype. The fans don't deserve your hatred. If you don't know them how can you hate them?

To be honest with you, ABE is a joke as well. If for example Germany play England, you will support Germany. Even though Germany bombed Scotland during the war. If Argentina play England, You will support Argentina. Even though many Scottish soldiers were killed during the Falklands war. I could go on but you get the message. I know you may well come out with battles faught between Scotland/England but these were all way before any of us came along. The ones I've mentioned are still in living memory and may influence people's thoughts.

As for the point about getting upset by it, sorry to disappoint you but nothing you could say or do would ever upset me. If it did, it would mean that I find it important and believe me, I don't. :rolleyes:

still cant quite drop it i see. anyway, on the hatred point you make, i agree. :D there is no need for it but i honestly don't believe there's that many fans on either side who truly hate the other, certainly as individuals. a huge amount of it is just banter, pure and simple.i think the majority of the decent english fans have been let down in the past by the hooligan element amongst the support that used to hit the headlines so often with their antics. thankfully that problem seems to have been put to bed in the last 10 years or so but i think some people still associate the fat , tattoed , fighting skin heads of the past with the country now.

with the ABE thing and the wars v germany, argentina etc, i think your missing the point and maybe taking it too seriously. i would say war time allegiances etc are pretty far from the average scottish supporters mind when they cheer on such teams. its simply anyone but england because you lot are are oldest and closest rivals and we dont want you to win!

Looks in mirror and sees, large gentleman, skin head and several tattoos. :rolleyes:

I know the point about the wars was a bit OTT but I was trying to show the lack of sense in supporting these countrys.

Oh well, Let's just hope England get all the way to the final and it will be a nice quiet place on here. Well apart from me and a few others who may or may not rub it in a bit. B)

aye that'll be fine but when you's get beat on penalties and wayne rooney's crying his wee heart out dont expect much sympathy here :rolleyes:

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There's a certain logic to this ABE movement. On the rare occasions Scotland have reached the finals, Scots fans have been used to supporting a team that loses. With Scotland not there the ABE movement not only allows the fans to get their fix of seeing the team they are supporting lose, it also allows them to continue this masochistic pleasure beyond the group stages.

It would be nice to think the majority of Scots would support England but I'm know that is not going to happen. I accept that many, if not most Scots will not be supporting England but it would be so much more positive if they supported the team playing the most attractive football instead. This is, after all, meant to be the world's showcase of the beautiful game.

Football is not about the attractive football though, is it? Football is about the passion and the emotion, it's like comparing sex with a beautiful prostitute to making love to the one you adore, always better when there is some sort of feeling involved.

eerr, umm, weeeeellllllll, yes of course it is.free-sexy-smileys-948.gif

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Football is not about the attractive football though, is it? Football is about the passion and the emotion, it's like comparing sex with a beautiful prostitute to making love to the one you adore, always better when there is some sort of feeling involved.

Attractive football doesn't change the scoreline (all the time), but it should be something that teams aim to do. It's interesting though that over the course of time, it's often the case that teams that play the best football seem to get the better results. Rinus Michels' Netherlands and Gusztav Sebes' Hungary being too prime examples. It'll be interesting to see how well Chile do this World Cup. Apparently they play a very exciting game, heavily based on the 3-4-3 formation.

Edited by Renegade
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My money (10 quid to be precise) is on the Netherlands. On this basis, I will be supporting the Netherlands and hoping they win. I got 14-1 on them winning the world cup but I've noticed the odds are shortening.

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Football is not about the attractive football though, is it? Football is about the passion and the emotion, it's like comparing sex with a beautiful prostitute to making love to the one you adore, always better when there is some sort of feeling involved.

Attractive football doesn't change the scoreline (all the time), but it should be something that teams aim to do. It's interesting though that over the course of time, it's often the case that teams that play the best football seem to get the better results. Rinus Michels' Netherlands and Gusztav Sebes' Hungary being too prime examples. It'll be interesting to see how well Chile do this World Cup. Apparently they play a very exciting game, heavily based on the 3-4-3 formation.

I'm sure they would have swapped silky football to have won the World Cup, something those teams have never done.

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Football is not about the attractive football though, is it? Football is about the passion and the emotion, it's like comparing sex with a beautiful prostitute to making love to the one you adore, always better when there is some sort of feeling involved.

Attractive football doesn't change the scoreline (all the time), but it should be something that teams aim to do. It's interesting though that over the course of time, it's often the case that teams that play the best football seem to get the better results. Rinus Michels' Netherlands and Gusztav Sebes' Hungary being too prime examples. It'll be interesting to see how well Chile do this World Cup. Apparently they play a very exciting game, heavily based on the 3-4-3 formation.

I'm sure they would have swapped silky football to have won the World Cup, something those teams have never done.

Exactly, football is a game, a contest, a competition, the aim of football is to score more goals than the opposition there are no judges on the sidelines with boards to mark the flair and technical ability of players there is a referee in the middle of the pitch who keeps a tally of goals scored. There is far more satisfaction to be gained from watching your team win, you never see the runners up celebrating silky passing or fancy footwork. You will however see a poorly skilled team and fans go ballistic from winning a scrappy match. Football is a team sport where teamwork is rewarded and individual flair can be the breaking of a team, if you do not like that fact (as I have told you before) then perhaps rhythmic gymnastics or figure skating might be more suited to your needs.

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ScotlandWorldCup.jpg

I'll say it again, simples!

World Cup/Euro years are great, we can just sit back and watch the English gets themselves all frothed up (maybe it's just the media?!) about their imminent success and then enjoy it as they inevitably collapse and go through the bi-annual post mortem and hand wringing that accompanies it. Anything us Scots can do to wind it up a little more just adds to the enjoyment and almost without fail our Southern Cousins take the bait! It's not as if we're busying ourselves with anything daft like tactics, players or even making travel plans in the run-up to a tournament after all...

It's just brilliant TV, I'm all for more sport on TV if it could be that good!

In purely footballing terms England are realistically no more our rivals on the field than Clach are to us, that's just the sad truth these days...

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I'm sure they would have swapped silky football to have won the World Cup, something those teams have never done.

Not a chance. There has been sides of course though that have played good attacking football, Carlos Bilardo's Argentina being one of them.

Exactly, football is a game, a contest, a competition, the aim of football is to score more goals than the opposition there are no judges on the sidelines with boards to mark the flair and technical ability of players there is a referee in the middle of the pitch who keeps a tally of goals scored. There is far more satisfaction to be gained from watching your team win, you never see the runners up celebrating silky passing or fancy footwork. You will however see a poorly skilled team and fans go ballistic from winning a scrappy match. Football is a team sport where teamwork is rewarded and individual flair can be the breaking of a team, if you do not like that fact (as I have told you before) then perhaps rhythmic gymnastics or figure skating might be more suited to your needs.

If it's scores that you're interested in, then maybe it's the NFL or Dominos that you should take more of an interest in. The name of the game is football, not scoreball. As fan of a team, when I go to a game, I do not ask for a win. I'd like one, but it is not the be all and end all for me. All I ask is to see an entertaining game. It's called the beautiful game for a reason and there is no distinction between style and substance because in football, style is substance. It was Johan Cryuff who said that there was no greater compliment that being revered for your style, and that is why manager who played a fantastic style of football, like Pep Guardiola, Gusztav Sebes and most of all Rinus Michels (said to be the greatest manager of all time) will go down in history, while others fade into the mists of time.

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