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Melville / Dundee / 25pt Deduction


ymip

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Heilandee - I'd love to know the answer to this question if you will please, why oh why are you a dundee supporter on an Inverness fans forum? Are you mad!?

Out of order! :yellowcard:

Heilandee is one of the most respected visitors to this site, his contributions are greatly valued by many and on that basis it doesn't matter a toss about which club he supports. It's when you see the Dundee situation at first hand, as I did in Dingwall on Saturday, that you feel for the genuine Dundee fans who have had nothing to do with years of financial profligacy, who really wish it had never happened and who only want to be able to continue to support their club.

Edited by Charles Bannerman
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Agreed, in his defence Heilandee watched our club grow through the leagues and is not personally responsible for the situation at Dens.

My gripe is that along with all the other Dees he would be more than happy to have seen his team promoted to the SPL at the expense of ICT and that the financial burden that would been have imposed on us for not cheating the taxman as was the case at Dens Park would have set us back years.

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Heilandee is officially welcome on our forums. If he werent a DFC supporter - through their good years and bad - I get the feeling he would be an ICT one .... he certainly has a soft spot for us and has added and contributed to hundreds of different discussions over the years .... stop being so parochial 'theweescot' !

Now ... back to the discussion ... I too have no sympathy for Dundee Football Club or for anyone involved in running them into the ground barely seven years after it happened the last time ! I dont care if those involved were directors, officials, or members of Dee4Life who suddenly found themselves at the trough with all the rest, or ones who maybe knew what was going on or what might happen and turned a blind eye to what was staring them in the face ... they are all equally guilty.

I also think that some of those who are carping about the 25 point penalty need to 'stfu' and realise that unlike Gretna or Livi, they actually have a chance to avoid relegation and were treated more lightly by the beaks than either of the aforementioned teams (probably because of the timing if nothing else). However, the ones i DO feel sorry for are the normal, genuine fans who are merely supporters of the team with no power, influence or arrogant attitudes - like Heilandee - as it is them who would suffer the worst if DFC went the way of Gretna. I would never gloat about the demise of any team - not even County or Livi - as virtually any football team in Scotland is only but a short distance away from that self same abyss !!!!!

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Agreed, in his defence Heilandee watched our club grow through the leagues and is not personally responsible for the situation at Dens.

My gripe is that along with all the other Dees he would be more than happy to have seen his team promoted to the SPL at the expense of ICT and that the financial burden that would been have imposed on us for not cheating the taxman as was the case at Dens Park would have set us back years.

Thats definitely an interesting debate .... "what if ......" .

I think we would all be 10,000% more vociferous (and negative) about all things Dundee, possibly even visiting DFC fans on the forum, if they had won the league.

However, by extension, the original "what if ...?" question begs another one .... "if they had won the league would they have been in such deep doo-doo?" .... Personally, I think it is quite possibe that this situation may not have arisen as the financial uplift gained by reaching the SPL would have been more than enough to pay the taxman and it would be business as (un)usual for them. This debacle is a consequence of them taking a huge gamble on promotion (probably not for the first time) and then their bottle crashing.

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PMF....just as we were happy to see our team promoted at the expense of Dundee, or any of the other teams struggling to make ends meet in Div 1. That's the (unfortunate) nature of the beast and none of us would refuse promotion for our club in order to "save" another....so your point is unfair in that regard.

TWS, not only is Heilandee a long standing and welcome member of these forums, he is also well known to many of us in the real world and has been in attendance at the home end of TCS on many occasions. Please don't latch on to my posts and attempt to use them as a GIRUY reference aimed at this user....I far prefer to engage in more sensible conversation on the matter, as has been the case between myself and Heilandee.

I think we all have some "right" to be a little aggrieved at the Dundee situation, but it would be extremely foolish to assume any kind of superior position or to look down our noses at the Dundee fans. The majority of the fans at ICT wouldn't be able to spot an ICT Director in a crowd of two, let alone have any idea about the clubs financial situation or the mechanics of the clubs operation.....a situation mirrored at the majority of clubs up and down the country.

Situations like this should serve as a warning and have us asking questions of our own clubs to ensure it doesn't happen closer to home. Choosing to instead play a game of pointing and laughing at the misfortunes of others is a dangerous game and one which does little more than tempt fate.

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However, by extension, the original "what if ...?" question begs another one .... "if they had won the league would they have been in such deep doo-doo?" .... Personally, I think it is quite possibe that this situation may not have arisen as the financial uplift gained by reaching the SPL would have been more than enough to pay the taxman and it would be business as (un)usual for them. This debacle is a consequence of them taking a huge gamble on promotion (probably not for the first time) and then their bottle crashing.

I'm not so easily sold on that last paragraph. If the mindset existed to take such a huge gamble on achieving promotion, I'm not so sure they wouldn't have continued to take big risks in order to sustain SPL status and/or climb the table. I'm also not convinced that those who made the decision to gamble weren't fully aware of the fact that failure would mean administration (or worse)....and therein lies the problem when you have a setup whereby the decision makers are not held properly accountable to the wider community, morally or financially.

Not a situation unique to Dundee and the fact that clubs are in a position where they are almost forced to take risks that no other business would take is, again, an indication of the fundamental issues that exist with how the football industry operates...from top to bottom.

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Jings crivvens and help ma boab,eh never knew ye's cared :wave: thank fook IHE's no about the now or i reckon eh'd be getting a new one torn

TWS, yer opinion is as valid as the next person,but mebbes a wee bit research on a subject before casting aspertions and tarring all with a wide brush wouldn't go amiss. "Dafty"! quite possible....."mad" ...almost certainly... but never knowingly a cheat or dishonest.The fact representatives of our club and those entrusted with it's running have behaved in an irresponsible and reckless manner again is not lost on the majority of honest supporters,but as a few have alluded to in this thread, mebbes those without sin and all that.....

Yours in football

Heilandee

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Jings crivvens and help ma boab,eh never knew ye's cared :wave: thank fook IHE's no about the now or i reckon eh'd be getting a new one torn

TWS, yer opinion is as valid as the next person,but mebbes a wee bit research on a subject before casting aspertions and tarring all with a wide brush wouldn't go amiss. "Dafty"! quite possible....."mad" ...almost certainly... but never knowingly a cheat or dishonest.The fact representatives of our club and those entrusted with it's running have behaved in an irresponsible and reckless manner again is not lost on the majority of honest supporters,but as a few have alluded to in this thread, mebbes those without sin and all that.....

Yours in football

Heilandee

I never said you were dishonest or a cheat. I'm only baseing my opnions on what i read on the dfc forum and the bbc sports/news website. It may have been taken out of context when I said you were daft. I soaly ment that if it was me i wouldn't go near any company that had been in admin i defanatly wouldnt give them credit. Then again that's me and that's only what i would do. I'm not to upset anyone or be a d*ck but at least you've been decant about it. thanks.

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Interesting and very candid piece by Stephen Thompson at United

Thompson interview

Full interview is on audio link half way down and uncomfortable listening considering this team finished 3rd and won the Scottish cup last season! grim times for fitba i fear

Aye so it seams. Didn't make plesant listening lastnight anyway. Don't know the in's and out's but Thompson isn't putting anymore cash into the club.

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