under 19s v Aberdeen

[youthcomesfirst]

Fantastic win today for the under 19s - the first win of the season, 3-2 against top of the table Aberdeen today at Clach park. This would have given the players as well as Scott Kellacher and John Doc a huge lift after the poor result last Sunday against Keith.

[dougiedanger]

Fantastic win today for the under 19s - the first win of the season, 3-2 against top of the table Aberdeen today at Clach park. This would have given the players as well as Scott Kellacher and John Doc a huge lift after the poor result last Sunday against Keith.

Nice one. Care to give any more details?

[Picasso]

Three of the regulars were dropped to the bench. The boys played well as a unit and seemed to have a nice balance. Yes there are some who lack top drawer skills, but the endeavour was great to see. In my last 19s comment I said the forwards were scared to put their head on the ball. On Friday, three excellent goals all scored with the head.

Murray Kinnaird shouted his way through the match and handled everything confidently. The team were 2-0 up when Aberdeen got their first. Kinnaird pulled off a great save only for it to go straight to the feet of a Don. At 2-1 things got nervey, but the boys didn't sit back. At 3-1, the Dons were panicking. Neale Cooper got sent from the pitch (ie he'd to climb the other side of the wall beside the dugout) for commentrs to the ref. The Dons second came from a break. Kinnaird had no chance as the ball was slotted sideways for Aberdeen to pass the ball into the goal. Apart from that defensive lapse the boys were great. Maybe not the prettiest football, but streaks ahead of what they showed against Keith.

It would be difficult to pick a man of the match as they all contributed. Kinnaird was solid in goals. Chad Stewart marshalled the defence well. Martin Laing was good going forward, but might need to have a few bowls of porridge to build some strength. Davey Chambers impressed again. Poor Andrew Greig ran his wee legs off, but he (the smallest on the oitch) was pitched against a giant of a defender - I assume birthh certificates have been checked!! Our goals came from Jack Sutherland, Chad Stewart and Neil Erskine.

There was onenegative for me, and this comes via some Aberdeen players/support. Kell and the boys were obviously elated with the performance. Apparently at least one of our boys got a bollocking from one of the staff (not Kell or Doc). The embarrassing bit was the Aberdeen boys were coming out saying "you would have thought they lost".

They are young men. Their development isn't just with skills but their psychology and emotional growth is very important. To get a negative after that performance smacks of someone with a power complex. Let them enjoy the day. Deal with the disciplione, if there is an issue, later. But certainly not outside the losing dressing room.

[Snow]

Very much agree with the point made in your final two paragraphs, Picasso.

[caleyboy]

Good to see the U19's getting a result. So the problem against Keith FC was ATTITUDE. Sorry but the coaches need to take responsibility for this and it is about time the club spent some serious money and employed a suitably qualified coach who also has a playing pedigree.

[Oddquine]

Good to see the U19's getting a result. So the problem against Keith FC was ATTITUDE. Sorry but the coaches need to take responsibility for this and it is about time the club spent some serious money and employed a suitably qualified coach who also has a playing pedigree.

Not really...They didn't play the best they could....but then Keith didn't let them. Is football not a game of two teams.....and not of one team standing there to allow the "better team" to score willy nilly?

Did Scotland have an attitude problem against Spain? Is it not about time Scotland spent some serious money and employed a suitably qualified coach who also has a playing pedigree?

[caleyboy]

Good to see the U19's getting a result. So the problem against Keith FC was ATTITUDE. Sorry but the coaches need to take responsibility for this and it is about time the club spent some serious money and employed a suitably qualified coach who also has a playing pedigree.

Not really...They didn't play the best they could....but then Keith didn't let them. Is football not a game of two teams.....and not of one team standing there to allow the "better team" to score willy nilly?

Did Scotland have an attitude problem against Spain? Is it not about time Scotland spent some serious money and employed a suitably qualified coach who also has a playing pedigree?

I take it you are either the mother or girlfriend of one of our U19 squad and I can fully accept you want to defend his position. However, I cannot accept that a SHFL club have more talented players than us nor can I accept that they would be more tactically aware to enable them to "stop" us playing. Sorry, but our boys went out against Keith because they thought that they only had to turn up to win this tie. If the coaches had them mentally prepared (as they should be for ALL games) they should have won comfortably. If Keith FC had better players than ICT, then we don't have the right quality at the club. In either case, where would you lay the blame?

[tm4tj]

Why has there to be blame? We lost an U19 game, big deal. I take it you were in attendance to see this attitude problem?

Sorry, I just don't get it.

[Oddquine]

Good to see the U19's getting a result. So the problem against Keith FC was ATTITUDE. Sorry but the coaches need to take responsibility for this and it is about time the club spent some serious money and employed a suitably qualified coach who also has a playing pedigree.

Not really...They didn't play the best they could....but then Keith didn't let them. Is football not a game of two teams.....and not of one team standing there to allow the "better team" to score willy nilly?

Did Scotland have an attitude problem against Spain? Is it not about time Scotland spent some serious money and employed a suitably qualified coach who also has a playing pedigree?

I take it you are either the mother or girlfriend of one of our U19 squad and I can fully accept you want to defend his position. However, I cannot accept that a SHFL club have more talented players than us nor can I accept that they would be more tactically aware to enable them to "stop" us playing. Sorry, but our boys went out against Keith because they thought that they only had to turn up to win this tie. If the coaches had them mentally prepared (as they should be for ALL games) they should have won comfortably. If Keith FC had better players than ICT, then we don't have the right quality at the club. In either case, where would you lay the blame?

Why would you assume that.....I wish, but.it has been a lot of years since I was the mother or girlfriend of anyone under 19?

I was at the game because I rarely get down the road when there is a game of any kind at ICT, and I watch what I can access.

Did you actually attend the game, out of interest,.or are you just going by the mindset that "this club is not SPL so can't possibly have u-19s who can raise their game to beat a mostly u-17 squad"?

Logically, what you are saying is that every time ICT beats any club who would normally be expected to beat them, such as Celtic etc is because the other team has an attitude problem and not that the ICT players have raised their game? Try saying that to the ICT first team squad!.

Shucks, with "supporters" like you, who needs opponents/enemies?

Edited October 20, 2010 by Oddquine

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Dwight Eisenhower

No one can defeat us unless we first defeat ourselves.

From a professional, psychological position I would have to say that there is a winning and a losing attitude/mentality and it is essential that the former rather than the latter is firmly embedded in the psyche of ICT yoof - and the development and installation of such "thinking" is clearly the responsibility of the coaches.

Don't be disquieted in time of adversity. Be firm with dignity and self-reliant with vigor.

Chiang Kai-Shek

[caleyboy]

Good to see the U19's getting a result. So the problem against Keith FC was ATTITUDE. Sorry but the coaches need to take responsibility for this and it is about time the club spent some serious money and employed a suitably qualified coach who also has a playing pedigree.

My first post (Not relation to anyone in the U 19's before you start caleyboy).

What are you on about caleyboy?!! These are young men (16, 17 & 18 year olds!) developing their own individual ability in the game!! Yes it is a game!!

Nothing to do with attitude, just a bunch of young men learning their trade and making the odd mistake. Some will be better than others and unlike other professions, most will have to go and find another career at the age of 18!!!

I made a couple of mistakes at my work today but no-one is accusing me of having an attitude or blaming my boss. And I am 29, not 17!! you think I would be more perfect at my age, like you!!

As for blaming the coaches, what playing pedigree do you think/know is required to coach our U 19's & what qualifications do you desire our club coaches to have?

This was my original post re this game:

"An absolute disgrace getting beat at this level by a SHFL youth side some of whom also played the day before. Was this an attitude problem? Was it a quality problem? If it was attitude the coach needs replacing! If it was a quality problem the whole structure needs an overhaul! Now I know why we don't hear very much about this squad. Sorry to be negative but this is the reward for doing everything on the cheap and the Club investing absolutely NOTHING in our youth programme! This is NOT the players fault - they are still learning - it is down to coaching, discipline and the teaching of good habits!"

I have fully supported our Youth Development since the club was formed but we are an SPL club and this is a Professional squad so it is far more than just a GAME. To get to this level the kids obviously have the ability which now needs development on a full time basis but the essential elements required are ATTITUDE and GOOD HABITS.

As an SPL club, I would expect our U19's coaches to have at LEAST a SFA YOUTH LICENCE! However, I would also expect them to be working towards the EUROPEAN PRO Licence. You will find that our U19 coaches do not hold either. Just as important, I think PLAYING experience at a FULL-TIME PROFESSIONAL level is also a MUST in order to impart the knowledge to our young pros. I beleive the Club already has 2 individuals suitably qualified in both areas but they are not involved with our U19's.

Sorry if I have upset anyone by my comments but it is VITAL that the club gets this right

for our future eg Grant Munro & Nick Ross to name just two who have come all the way through the programme.

[bbendy41]

As the mother of one of the u19 squad and also the mother of the boy who was treated without respect by one of the backroom staff after the aberdeen game and who was in attendence at the keith game , i cant believe what i am reading in these posts.

The boys were at rock bottom after the Keith game and knew that they had let the club down and themselves down but they showed great character to bounce back and beat the league leaders in their next game.

They lost a game to another team that is football they will learn from that and adapt and if they dont they wont have a future in the game. What the boys need is support and backing and time to grow and develop, not people to come on websites calling for their coaches to be replaced.

Thankfully my son has found the staff at ICT to be supportive and that is from the top down ( maybe with one exception).I travelled by train from aberdeen to go and see the Keith game and yes the result was disappointing but i would do it again to show support to the team. Maybe those who are closer could turn out and support the boys and not down the team. In football you win as a team and lose as a team, from the coaches down to the players. So please support the team so you can enjoy the benefits that will come from the team

[caleyboy]

As the mother of one of the u19 squad and also the mother of the boy who was treated without respect by one of the backroom staff after the aberdeen game and who was in attendence at the keith game , i cant believe what i am reading in these posts.

The boys were at rock bottom after the Keith game and knew that they had let the club down and themselves down but they showed great character to bounce back and beat the league leaders in their next game.

They lost a game to another team that is football they will learn from that and adapt and if they dont they wont have a future in the game. What the boys need is support and backing and time to grow and develop, not people to come on websites calling for their coaches to be replaced.

Thankfully my son has found the staff at ICT to be supportive and that is from the top down ( maybe with one exception).I travelled by train from aberdeen to go and see the Keith game and yes the result was disappointing but i would do it again to show support to the team. Maybe those who are closer could turn out and support the boys and not down the team. In football you win as a team and lose as a team, from the coaches down to the players. So please support the team so you can enjoy the benefits that will come from the team

Your son's development will be very much down to the quality of coaching and treatment he receives from the coaches so I hope you can see where I am coming from. Beleive me, I hope your son and any other deserving member of the U19 squad make it to the next level but they will need all the help and advice they can get. That generally comes from those with experience at the highest level.

[bbendy41]

As the mother of one of the u19 squad and also the mother of the boy who was treated without respect by one of the backroom staff after the aberdeen game and who was in attendence at the keith game , i cant believe what i am reading in these posts.

The boys were at rock bottom after the Keith game and knew that they had let the club down and themselves down but they showed great character to bounce back and beat the league leaders in their next game.

They lost a game to another team that is football they will learn from that and adapt and if they dont they wont have a future in the game. What the boys need is support and backing and time to grow and develop, not people to come on websites calling for their coaches to be replaced.

Thankfully my son has found the staff at ICT to be supportive and that is from the top down ( maybe with one exception).I travelled by train from aberdeen to go and see the Keith game and yes the result was disappointing but i would do it again to show support to the team. Maybe those who are closer could turn out and support the boys and not down the team. In football you win as a team and lose as a team, from the coaches down to the players. So please support the team so you can enjoy the benefits that will come from the team

Your son's development will be very much down to the quality of coaching and treatment he receives from the coaches so I hope you can see where I am coming from. Beleive me, I hope your son and any other deserving member of the U19 squad make it to the next level but they will need all the help and advice they can get. That generally comes from those with experience at the highest level.

I do understand where you are coming from but you cant focus on one result. Shock results happen at all levels of football. As a caley fan you should understand with caley going down to celtic park and beating them a few years ago. The boys showed heart and guts to come back from the keith game and beat aberdeen, that you seem to be over looking as you seem to want to concentrate on knocking the coaches.

[Oddquine]

Dwight Eisenhower

No one can defeat us unless we first defeat ourselves.

From a professional, psychological position I would have to say that there is a winning and a losing attitude/mentality and it is essential that the former rather than the latter is firmly embedded in the psyche of ICT yoof - and the development and installation of such "thinking" is clearly the responsibility of the coaches.

Don't be disquieted in time of adversity. Be firm with dignity and self-reliant with vigor.

Chiang Kai-Shek

Yes and no, IHE.

Coaches aren't sports psychologists and don't have the expertise to embed anything into the psyche of players. That isn't their job.

All coaches are trained to do, at whatever inflated level they reach re coaching (note, not psychologist) qualifications, is to teach techniques, encourage fitness, practise set pieces, come up with tactics for games and promote team cohesion etc. They are not trained to sort out the way individual players think. They are trained to work with a body and a brain which is confident in their abilities....and the assumption made by coaches is that every body carries a brain which will respond to a generally applied "you are the greatest so get out there and show them you are". But that is not necessarily useful if eight or nine team members buy it. but a couple of them don't.

You can only instill "thinking" into a team as a coach if all the members of that team think the same way, and you know they do. All a team needs to fall apart is one or two pivotal team members who do not have the techniques in place to stop their heads dropping when they make mistakes. Why on earth do you think that most professional clubs, in all sports, have sports psychologists on staff or at least on call?

You have a kid with excellent, even superb, technical skills, which if their heads worked as coaches expect, or they have had access to techniques to combat the way their minds worked in place, would produce a player who could be worth millions in this irrationally inflated current football market.

But if that kid currently lacks confidence in his own abilities to the extent that every mistake is more reason not to try for fear of making another mistake (and that is ignoring the outside pressure of the reactions of "fans" to inaccurate passes etc), .....or is such a perfectionist that he can't cope with making mistakes and his head drops because he is not managing to live up to his own high expectations..just what does anyone think a coach can do about it? Really?

Instilling confidence etc into young players, who could be very good and have the prospect of eventually becoming cash cows for a club, is not the responsibility of coaches except in their ability to recognise those exceptional players who, for whatever reason, have a mindset problem which detracts from their ability to perform as well as they could, because they are not trained to do that. All they should be trained to do is identify the good prospects with problems which can be dealt with by the appropriate help and point them in the direction of the club sports psychologist., if the club has one they can access. No idea if ICT has or not.

If you think about it., how often during England's performance in the last World Cup did the commentators and the media say that if Wayne Rooney, one single player, played crap the team would do nothing...and he did and they didn't. .And just what could the England coaches have done about it?