Toronto FC

[Scotty]

now that MLS season is upon us, I think I will start a thread about the team I go to watch because I cant be at the TCS !!!

We will skip over week 1, where TFC lost badly to Vancouver ... and move to last weekend where it was a nice 2-0 victory over Portland. Its gonna take time for the parts to gel, but here is an excellent goal I had the privilege to see in the flesh .....

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[Scarlet Pimple]

Yes it was Scotty--I did see quite a bit of that game on the telly and was pleased to see Toronto has recovered from that frenetic match against Vancouver last week. Your team looked more determined to get the ball up the park and there seemed to more urgency and determination in it. There was some good football on display.

And these crowds -wow--I wish we had these at Tulloch. Another 23,000 I would guess.

Looks like both Toronto and Vancouver might do very well this season.

[Scotty]

Full game in 6 minutes .....

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[Scotty]

Yes it was Scotty--I did see quite a bit of that game on the telly and was pleased to see Toronto has recovered from that frenetic match against Vancouver last week. Your team looked more determined to get the ball up the park and there seemed to more urgency and determination in it. There was some good football on display.

And these crowds -wow--I wish we had these at Tulloch. Another 23,000 I would guess.

Looks like both Toronto and Vancouver might do very well this season.

announced crowd was just over 20,000 .... real crowd, I would guess, was closer to 18K. It was a good game but a 'seasoned' MLS team would have ripped TFC apart. The Timbers are not as good as Vancouver I dont think and former Rangers man John Spencer, manager of the Timbers will have his work cut out this year.

Courtesy of new head coach Aron Winter, TFC are trying to play the Ajax style of "total football" in a 4-3-3 formation. There were glimpses of brilliance during the game, but too often the players were kind of looking round to see what they were supposed to be doing and where they were supposed to be positioned .... a typical, physical, direct MLS team will punch holes through TFC with consumate ease until the system starts sitting better with the players .... it was also ironic that what is probably one of the best goals scored at BMO field was pure route 1 football .........

PS - just like SPL, the ref was an erse too !!!!!

Scarlet - you may be interested in CTO's transatlantic sister site ..... http://tfcpics.com/

I have taken upwards of 7200 pics at TFC home games over the last 4 seasons so just throw them up in a gallery .... some are good, some are crap, some are uploaded by other friends ... but the principle of the site is that we are all just amateurs ... 'fans first ... fotografers second'. We just started adding some stats too .....

[Scarlet Pimple]

Interesting site. Good common sense remarks from some fellas on there.Philadelphia has a lovely stadium right on the water there. Very scenic. Rivals Tulloch fer heavens's sake!

The last game I saw last year was Vancouver versus Portland Timbers at Swangard Stadium in Burnaby, B.C., in which Portland won 0-1. Their team was unexceptional but managed to absorb whatever pressure that Vancouver threw at them. I remember it was a bit of a towsy game with both teams not looking too likely to score.

This, of course, was not the MLS (Major League Soccer) but the next dvision down. There was, and is, a stark difference between the size of the crowds though as I mentioned in my last thread on the subject. Night and day, like.

In North America there just seems to be so much money available for sporting teams that owners' ambitions have no fetter when it comes to spending money. But that has always been an American trait--i.e their willingness to take risk and spend a dollar to make a dollar in business--something I really do admire.

Steve Nash, the hugely successful Basketball star from Vancouver, who I think was the NBA star last year and who incidentally is also a good soccer player, is apparently involved with the Whitecaps as an Investor as is Arthur Griffiths who used to be the owner of the Vancouver Canucks ice hockey team. The Canucks are simply running away with the National Hockey League this year.Their success this year have people finally hoping that this will be their year to win the Stanley cup and well they might.

Top of the North American League and win after win just flowing from their brilliant hockey is a harbinger of success in the playoffs, which are about to start very soon. They have the SEDIN twins playing together as one unit and watching their stick handling is pure joy to behold. I guess when you are on $6 million and counting per annum you kinda have to be really good..eh?

So the Management consortium at the Whitecaps is putting their money where their mouth is and reminiscences of that great year,1979, when they won the North American soccer league in the last game of the season keep coming back by those of us who were there that afternoon.That was the era of Peter Beardsley and that famous Dutch player coach whose name escapes me.

I think that we will both be taking a considerable interest in the MLS season as it progresses but Toronto were more lively a couple of days ago and they certainly were not a bad team when they came here--they just came up against a large, bustling and mighty determined athletic team in Vancouver on the first day of the season and did not capitalise on their first half superiority. Simple.

Enjoyed the linky there Scotty.

Cheers

[Scarlet Pimple]

And, to think that I recommended De Rosario to the Caley Board in 2008 but got a polite turndown from Mr Bennet I think it was at that time.

He is just as potent now as he was then and could have done a turn for the team. Always willing to hava go and bags of skill . There you go, another slippery eel gone through the fingers.

Mind you, I shudder to think what Toronto is paying him but I don't think he could be viewed as a real prospect now based on that issue alone

Do you think that he could have fitted in nicely Scotty? Looking at it in hindsight my feeling is..well, maybe not. The cold and snowy Scottish weather would have him wanting back to Canada pretty soon after he arrived I fear. Maybe if it was to Celtic though.......? LOL

[caley100]

'total football' that goal was well taken, but route one eh? one bounce and bang. difficult to compare crowds but the population of Toronto is huge in comparison to Sneck so you would expect the fan base to be much larger.

Also looked feckin cold there, everyone had big jackets/hats/scarves/gloves on, is ot not spring?

[Scotty]

'total football' that goal was well taken, but route one eh? one bounce and bang. difficult to compare crowds but the population of Toronto is huge in comparison to Sneck so you would expect the fan base to be much larger.

Also looked feckin cold there, everyone had big jackets/hats/scarves/gloves on, is ot not spring?

Yup, one bounce and bang - but what a bang ! he took it well.

Toronto is about 2.5m, peraps double that for the "GTA" (greater Toronto area) .... this was the first home opener which didnt reach capacity but attendances are pretty healthy. The club restrict season tickts to 16,000 (or something like that) and have a waiting list for new season ticket holders. Th rest of the tickets are for "game day sales" (ie. more expensive tickets) or for away fans.

Saturday was bloody cold !!! Normally it should be +7 or +10 at this time of year but we had a freak snowstorm on the Wednesday, and the cold weather hung around ... it was about -10 for the game. The result made us warmer though ! Another home game this weekend, think it is forecast to be around the freezing mark again ... but this time no snow, but perhaps rain ! Could work to our advantage as Chivas (who play in same stadium as LA Galaxy) may not like the northern cold !

[Scotty]

And, to think that I recommended De Rosario to the Caley Board in 2008 but got a polite turndown from Mr Bennet I think it was at that time.

He is just as potent now as he was then and could have done a turn for the team. Always willing to hava go and bags of skill . There you go, another slippery eel gone through the fingers.

Mind you, I shudder to think what Toronto is paying him but I don't think he could be viewed as a real prospect now based on that issue alone

Do you think that he could have fitted in nicely Scotty? Looking at it in hindsight my feeling is..well, maybe not. The cold and snowy Scottish weather would have him wanting back to Canada pretty soon after he arrived I fear. Maybe if it was to Celtic though.......? LOL

No disrespect to ICT, but DeRo would not have gone there, his ego would not have allowed it !!! ICT would not have been a big enough team for him in his mind. As you say he might consider Celtic though ..... and he did try to engineer a move there over Christmas.

Personally, ego or not, I think he would have lit up the SPL in the same way as someone like Lubomir Moravcik did ... he is an excellent an skillful player, but for me, he is too much "ME"-Ro than DeRo over the last few months.

The other barrier would be wages. He is currently on the league maximum wage for a non designated player (but looking to get more). So that is US$375,000 per year which with guaranteed bonuses meant his salary last year ended up at $443,750 (all MLS wage figures are public - just look up MLS salaries on google). Thats about ?277,000 in UK money or ?5400 per week. He is not happy at that level and wants the same wage as Julian DeGuzman who is Toronto's DP and is on $1,717,546 a year or just over a million in UK money ... thats 20 grand a week in pounds ! Celtic supposedly offered him about 12 grand but TFC turned down the potential loan deal.

[Scarlet Pimple]

Was not aware that he was on so much money! Phew!

I guess it's human nature to always want more. Enough is never enough, it seems. And I don't just mean football.

De Rosario for that money is not worth it(not to Caley Thistle, anyway). When I saw him 3 years ago on video he was a veritable non-stop dynamo who would cover the whole field like a rash with his running in a game. He stood out like a sore thumb.

But what I see of him now is that he has toned down quite a bit and emerges in the game only more sporadically to stamp his authority on it or to provide a few thrills now and then or does something speedy and spectacular like his goal agaisnt Vancouver a couple of weeks ago. In short he may not be lazy, and may be playing to Manager's instructions or something; but I don't see him really as a superstar, rather a player who is satisfied with bis position and the salary he is now enjoying and is content to ease off and wait for the ball. Probably would not fit in with the current requirements of the ICT team these days!

With salaries like that it's no wonder the teams need large crowds to make ends meet.An article in the local Province newspaper today states that the TV "attendances" are down re watching the local Whitecaps from the high of several hundred thousand of two weeks ago to only some 80,000 viewings to watch their most recent away match. In addition, stats show that the MLS does not attract that many viewers overall in the season compared to other sports so..... The owners of the MLS teams may have an uphill battle to promote the sport in North America and will have to work hard and spend money in advertising and promos to be successful.

Tickets are not cheap but the only reason I knew it was on the Telly was that I happened to glimpse the game arrangements in a small ad on the sports page of the local daily newspaper about an hour after the game had started in the paper. So, It should be all over the local news and even on the TV hockey games I think. We shall see.....

[Scotty]

yup, MLS is facing an uphill battle against NFL, NBA, MLB and even NHL (esp in Canada) for viewership but it will tick over. The league itself is strong and surprisingly well managed and they seem to be choosing new teams that will actually add something to the mix ... Toronto basically made it a shoe-in for Vancover getting in this year and Montreal next year and the success (crowds wise) of Seattle made it easier for Portland.

Only two teams in MLS actually made a profit last year .... Toronto and Seattle ! Others are close but DP wages cleared away any profit (LA /NY for example with Beckham and Henry) and yet more of the older teams are in markets that are not very football friendly and they struggle along with considerably lower crowds.

After Montreal next year, I believe the hope is to get another team in New York which is a sizeable market and they are also trying to see if something can be done in Florida as they know there is a huge community with Latin roots who love their footy.

[TheKnowledge]

The dude Frei in goals seems like a bit of a player. It's also strange to see Kenny Cooper popping up at Toronto. He still can't be that old yet but I thought he was going to be a big player when he was younger.

Also, Pimple, no one outside North America ever even thinks of Steve Nash when talking about the NBA but he's easily one of the best, and has won MVP on more than one occasion. He could have chosen to player Soccer Ball for Canada if he wanted, apparently.

[Scotty]

The dude Frei in goals seems like a bit of a player. It's also strange to see Kenny Cooper popping up at Toronto. He still can't be that old yet but I thought he was going to be a big player when he was younger.

Also, Pimple, no one outside North America ever even thinks of Steve Nash when talking about the NBA but he's easily one of the best, and has won MVP on more than one occasion. He could have chosen to player Soccer Ball for Canada if he wanted, apparently.

Frei is an excellent keeper ... I am extremely surprised he hasnt been snapped up by a biggish European/UK team yet ! He has got to be worth an extra 10pts a year for TFC. His kicking isnt always great but reflex saves are top notch.

[Scarlet Pimple]

Frei-excellent keeper. As far as I remember he is Finnish , like Mixu Patticake.Very agile big figure with great hands.

The talk is that he is a cert to be signed by a big European team but you should be able to keep him at Toronto for this season at least. You do have some interesting and good players Scotty but the team needs to get forward and into the opposition goal area more, despite the often fine passing that they do. I it all breaks down k\just over the half way line then...?

Knowledge-- your comments are interesting and well informed , surprisingly so and the Pimple is impressed that yiu know about him. I din't think that anybody in Inverness would know about Steve Nssh but in North America he is a huge respected star and businessman.

Scotty, bringing in another couple of large city teams would not be a bad thing and New York did have a good name in the (distant) past.

Yes, I was reading about the success of Seattle and their fan base is very large and their home crowds are huge apparently.Why? Can't imagine why MLS soccer is so popular there. Maybe people coming into Seattle are from other parts of the US and the world. Boeing Aircraft factory is close by and it is a very attractive city situated on the extreme North West of the U.S. on the pacific coast about 100 miles or less South of Vancouver. Excellent freeway goes right over the city and the exterior roads leading in to the inner core are good too. It was voted the best city in the U.S.to live in a couple of years ago. No wonder; mild climate ( more often than not very wet, like Vancouver) but equable year round , fantastic scenery and easy access to forests and mountains, skiing galore (Whistler just 80 K north of Vancouver--just reported a total snow fall of 45 feet, gets its share of U.S enthusiasts), boating is very big, fishing Simply an awesome area to live in, especially if you are an outdoor enthusiast. Fresh air blowing in from the South West from the Pacific ocean keeps the area fresh.

It's the unregulated industrial run-off into the associated streams which in turn run into the Pacific that is killing the whales, and filling the fish up with mercury. Even the baby whales are now found to have pollutants in their bodies these days with the adjacent Howe Sound Pacific basin coming into Seattle that is totally pollute. Its very sad butmoneyt is the gOid so ... what can one do....?

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

Stefan Frei is Swiss and as he's only been capped at under 15 level I'd be very surprised if he ever played for a big European club .

[Scotty]

Yes he is Swiss, and I still maintain that he could play for a "biggish" UK or European club ... if they took an interest. I base that on seeing his performances week in and week out.

He may not have played internationally beyond youth level, but when he came to TFC he basically took the #1 spot away from Canadian International goalkeeper Greg Sutton, who eventually left the club for New York Red Bulls so he could get a game.

He's not going to attract Man Utd, Barcelona or other huge club interest but he is a very capable keeper who has excellent reflexes and shot stopping ability. I would certainly put him above the likes of Mark Brown on his day but it would be unfair of me to compare him to Esson as I watch Frei's performances regularly but just listen or read about Esson's or see the odd feed.

Having said that ... he seems happy at TFC, and if no-one ever comes in for him, then TFC fans will be happy to see him there for a long time to come.

[Scotty]

TFC captain, Dwayne DeRosario just traded to New York Red Bulls today for two players and a draft pick for next year. A couple of small snags in the paperwork to overcome but his time in Toronto appears to be at an end.

The relationship between DeRo and the club obviously couldnt be repaired .... he did that whole 'cheque signing' act after a goal last year to indicate he wanted more money (as allegedly promised verbally by Mo Johnston), then he went to Celtic at Christmas without TFC's permission, then TFC would not let him sign for Celtic on loan until the start of the MLS season (as payback some have suggested), and just a couple of weeks ago he didnt deny he might go on a one-man strike !!! 2 years left on his contract but he wanted to renegotiate, but was never going to get what he asked for which would have been a 500% wage rise !!!!!

[Scarlet Pimple]

Phew!

Now I am glad that ICT never made a move for him. We have had enough troubles and challenges over the last two years without a headstrong player like this causing more anxiety and stress.

Prima Donna , male variety, is not the word.

Scotty, maybe his departure will spark the club into going on a streak.

Final word--he had better play very well at Red Bulls or his career might take a real nosedive because no club needs a loose cannon.And he is ovberp[aid to boot.

Good luck!

[Renegade]

The dude Frei in goals seems like a bit of a player. It's also strange to see Kenny Cooper popping up at Toronto. He still can't be that old yet but I thought he was going to be a big player when he was younger.

Interestingly, before he signed for Toronto, he played for the Frogs, the Seals and even the Golden Bears!

[Scotty]

A couple of big signings for Toronto yesterday ......

Werder Bremen captain, and former German International, Torsten Frings comes to TFC as a designated player, as does Danny Koevermans who comes from PSV Eindhoven ..... neither can play until July 15th though as the MLS transfer window doesnt open until then.

We beat Vancouver last night which was also a bonus .... but we play them again on Saturday in a different competition so hopefully do the double over them.

[Scarlet Pimple]

Vancouver Whitecaps fired their coach a couple of weeks ago and put the deputy coach in as Manager.

After the first great effort in the first MLS game of the season for them it seems to have been a gradual downward slide ever since . They are in the Western Conference and isn't Toronto bottom of the Eastern Conference also--or close to it?

Dwayne de Rosario has now been traded again from New York to some other team--frankly I am losing track of his career moves now -he is like a bouncing ball--now you see him, now you don't. He is , or was, a very good player but he was not a commanding

figure in a recent game for Canada so maybe his game is fading.

I read somewhere that his salary had gone up in leaps and bounds and it ic currently much much larger than it was 3 years ago when I rea;lly fancied him for his drive and energy.

Scotty, I don't keep track of these things but I have the impression that the salaries in the MLS are now coming close to being off the chart--meaning that a team like ICT, with a very long history behind them, could never afford a player like him anymore

The only slver lining for the Whitecaps in all of this is the fact that they have had a tremendous support all season so far, with the average fan realising that they are a new franchise expansion team and therefore are willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and the support they will need to get over the hump and clearly the team (the owners, like) have made money for sure. An average crowd or 20,000 + will do that for you won't it?

Oh well, Katie and Willie duly arrived in Ottawa today and so far seems to be having a great time and are doing well with the cheering hordes so this country is again getting some good T.V. coverage instead of the bleak stuff on show recently.

My pal has just returned from a long spell in the South of England and he said he learned as much as we knew about the Vancouver riots from the British newspapers forsooth. Some of the reports were apparently not very accurate but they have to sell papers don't they so......?

[Sorted]

A couple of big signings for Toronto yesterday ......

Werder Bremen captain, and former German International, Torsten Frings comes to TFC as a designated player, as does Danny Koevermans who comes from PSV Eindhoven ..... neither can play until July 15th though as the MLS transfer window doesnt open until then.

We beat Vancouver last night which was also a bonus .... but we play them again on Saturday in a different competition so hopefully do the double over them.

Frings and Koevermans are major signings. Must make a point of watching a bit more MLS as the standard must be a lot better than I thought. Good luck on Saturday!

[Scotty]

Frings and Koevermans are major signings. Must make a point of watching a bit more MLS as the standard must be a lot better than I thought. Good luck on Saturday!

The standard is improving all the time but its not consistent yet ...... but I do like how MLS is trying to ensure growth at both ends of the scale

On the youth and home-grown player front ... you must have an academy to build your youth programme, you must have a certain number of "domestic" players in your squad and there are incentives for having young players in your squad ("generation Adidas" players) by not having their wages count against the salary cap. It means, in the long term that MLS will become self-sustaining and a net developer (exporter) of talent for both USA and Canada.

On the "international" side, they also seek to allow those players but also to limit the numbers, which is good as the influx of over the hill, former legends on stupid wages is what killed the previous attempt at a serious football league on this side of the pond. Teams can use up a limited number of "international" slots on their squad for anyone who is not Canadian or American but also have up to 3 designated players and these are usually "superstars" from Europe or South America. Only a portion of the wage counts to the salary cap so the club can pay them basically as much as they want .... The first and second DPs are normal spots, but the 3rd DP spot - if actually used by a team - means that team must pay a $250,000 luxury tax to the league which is split amongst teams without any DPs .... kind of balancing the financial books.

Looking round the league ... you have Beckham at LA along with Landon Donovan and Juan Pablo Angel; Thierry Henry at New York alongside Rafael Marquez (and likely a new one coming in the next week or two since they traded DeRosario to DC United); Julian DeGuzman at Toronto and now Frings and Koevermans joining him. There are others around the league too like Fredy Montero, Omar Bravo, Eric Hassli, David Ferreira, and a few more .....

I have seen TFC play LA on a few occasions so have had the pleasure of watching Beckham and regardless of what anyone says, the guy DOES still have it. He can ping a ball 50 yards to the feet of the person he is aiming for (just like Bobby Mann ) and his skill is definitely not waning. Same goes for Thierry Henry ... he is a higher class than many teams can put out, but its good to watch and can only develop the league further.

Toronto FC are terrible this year. We have a new coach - Aron Winter - who is sticking with plans to make TFC play a 4-3-3 "total football" formation but we dont have the players to achieve it..... YET. At times the team looks good and its a joy to watch, but at other times its bloody painful. Due to the rules of MLS the coach cannot make wholescale changes the way he would like to so the signing of Frings and Koevermans is another chess move as he tries to get his pieces setup ...... once it works (and I am sure it will) it is going to be good to watch .......

[Scotty]

TFC repeated as Canadian Chapionees today with a 2-1 victory over Vancouver.

CONCACAF Champions League now .......

Jaoa Plata the star for TFC

[Scarlet Pimple]

Sigh! Go on, rub it in.

Well thankfully there is another season to try our new tricks from Fanny Couver.