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ICT v Hibernian: Matchday Thread


Gringo

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Just watched the highlights back there. How Foran was offside, I'll never know. Tade's goal should of stood.

Mmm I'm not so sure. I seen back a few times now and while it is tight, using Foran's foot and the line as a guide, I think he's just off and no more. A couple if inches maybe, but I think he's JUST off.

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Foran's is much and such having watched. Way i see it he has strayed just off (typical Richie).

What was blatant was Stevenson's handball and Foran getting hacked down. That should have been a penalty and a red card.

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I think Djebi Tabe falls over for the first claim to be honest. But the second two are blatant. I was fuming at the game when they weren't given and having seen them again I feel it highlights nothing has changed. Disgraceful decisions.

Rig, I found it strange that the studio reason for not giving the Tade penalty was....'he got up and got on with the game, so it could not have been a penalty'!!

Now you get a yellow card for diving so maybe Tade should get a GREEN DOT.

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Just watched the highlights back there. How Foran was offside, I'll never know. Tade's goal should of stood.

Mmm I'm not so sure. I seen back a few times now and while it is tight, using Foran's foot and the line as a guide, I think he's just off and no more. A couple if inches maybe, but I think he's JUST off.

What irks me though is that Linesmen can spot that, and there looked to be inches in it, but fail to see blatant handballs or the tackle on Foran for the last penalty claim.

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The nearside linesman assistant referee was chronic. I don't think he made a decision for himself all day and seemed to take his lead from the referee on everything. The man in the middle tends to shoulder most of the blame when things are missed or wrong decisions made but in Steve Conroys defence for Saturday, he got absolutely no help from his assistants who were better placed than he to witness both the handball and Foran being dragged down in the box (and a few other things).

Tade penalty was marginal....seen softer given. If you watch it looks like he got his heel clipped as opposed to being outright tripped. What's certain though is that some kind of contact was made and not with the ball. Also a sad reflection of the state of the game when pundits are suggesting he should have made more of it to secure the penalty and that his honesty in getting straight back up cost him.

Forans offside....very tight. Linesman can't watch the ball and player at same time, so by time he looks round from the ball being played to check the line of players then he probably did see it as being offside. I don't know how they are trained to make a decision in that scenario, but you would think some allowance would be made for the delay in them looking from one to another. One of those where had it been the other way round then we'd all be sitting here with the straight edges on the screen showing it was clearly the right decision.

The handball...you'll be lucky to see a more obvious one this season. Linesman had clear line of sight to the incident and the referee, although blind-sided, should have got enough of it realise it looked suspect.

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Some games throw up more than their fair share of arguments for more technology to be used or an official in the stand with a moniter, like they have in rugby league, to view plays over and make the decisions that are needed and Saturdays had more than their fair share. At the speed the game is played now a days the officials are less and less likely to make those marginal decisions and always edge on caution which ultimately goes against the attacking team.

Forans was so close and I don't think even tv's would have helped, if you use the line as a guide he was maybe ever so slightly offside but by that point the play has finished so would be pointless unless they let it go and pulled it back.

Tade's I don't think was a penalty but the handball certainly was, even from the way he pulled his arm away after it hit it you could tell and how the ref and linesman missed it is beyond me. As for Foran being ripped down in the box by the last man, don't even get me started, short of a defender catching the ball you'll never see a more blatant penalty than that all season. I'm sure tha rules state that if a player is fouled from behind or the side without the opposing player getting to the ball first it is a foul, the only one who never saw it was the ref and linesman (I'm not even going to call him an assistant as he never assisted the ref once) anywhere else on the pitch and it would have been a foul.

?840odd pound a game, you're having a laugh aren't you!!!

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Rig, I found it strange that the studio reason for not giving the Tade penalty was....'he got up and got on with the game, so it could not have been a penalty'!!

Really? Who said that on the TV? I do wonder where they get these people from at times.

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I appreciate that referees and their assistants have a difficult job to do and I have defended them in the past, however, Saturday's performance was simply not up to standard. Having now seen the highlights I feel better placed to comment on 6 key decisions which went against us.

1. Tade penalty - I'll give the ref the benefit of the doubt. I can't tell whether Tade got his heel clipped or whether he just slipped/ tripped. His reaction of immediately getting up and on with it suggests the latter. Possibly a wrong decision but not a bad decision.

2. Tade "goal" - Again I'll give the officials the benefit. You simply can't tell from the angle although it looked on to me. I also felt that in the position Foran was he was wathching the line and being careful to stay on. Probably a wrong decision but not a bad decision.

3. Handball - Unlikely to be a clearer handball all season. Assistant had a clear sight. Shocking decision.

4. Foran penalty 1 - Wrestled to the ground in the box. Didn't appear on the highlights due to all the other incidents. Again the linesman had a clear sight of the defender with his arms round Foran. Very poor decision.

5. Foran Penalty 2 - Brought down by defender when going for 50:50 ball with keeper. Perhaps a bit more difficult to see exactly whose legs are where when three players are converging but still clear enough I would have thought. Probably the sort of shout which would be given 80% of the time. Poor decision.

6. Hayes fouled - Jonny should have been much more aware of the defender and either sheilded the ball, got rid of it or moved off with pace. He dwelt on it but he wasn't simply dispossed, he was physically pushed off the ball and onto the deck with no attempt to go for the ball. A second player than took control of the ball which then led to the goal. This was a blatant foul right in front of the referee. Shocking decison IMHO.

One hopes these kind of decisions even themselves out over the course of the season, but I have my doubts.

Two other points emerge from this.

Firstly, with Rooney gone, who will be taking penalties for us? (that is if we ever get awarded one!)

Secondly, top marks to Butcher for not having a rant over the poor standard of refereeing. Instead his post match comments focussed on a very encouraging performance by the team as a whole and the new players in particular. That was spot on.

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4. Foran penalty 1 - Wrestled to the ground in the box. Didn't appear on the highlights due to all the other incidents. Again the linesman had a clear sight of the defender with his arms round Foran. Very poor decision.

I was actually going to mention that actually. People around me were shouting for it, but from what I could see, the Hibs' man started pulling Foran outside the box, thus meaning it should of been a free kick, just outside the area.

The folk round me actually were saying that they saw one more penalty claim, as late on Sutherland seemed to be being held when the ball flashed across the box, but again this didn't make the highlights reel.

Firstly, with Rooney gone, who will be taking penalties for us? (that is if we ever get awarded one!)

It was reported last week that Tansey's going to take them. He seems to be taking free kicks as well.

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I was actually going to mention that actually. People around me were shouting for it, but from what I could see, the Hibs' man started pulling Foran outside the box, thus meaning it should of been a free kick, just outside the area.

I think though if the foul continues into the area then it would be a penalty regardless of where it had started. I am sure a few commentators made reference to this last season but I could be wrong.

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Surely it doesn't matter where the tugging started . If the man does not go down after the pulling starts is it a foul? Only if the tugged player loses possession of the ball as a result or has a scoring chance denied him.

If he does go down, the ref can't blow until he actually falls down and if that occurs inside the box the that is a penalty.

Tentpole must look like Crouch of the EPL then? No one can be taller and thinner than him in British football..eh? :rolleyes:

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My understanding is the foul is given where the offence occurred so if outside the box, that is where the foul is. The referee has the option of seeing how play develops before blowing for a foul which the referee actually did a couple of times in the game.

Regardless of that, standard on display on Saturday from officials was still dreadful. I don't think anyone minds if refs make honest mistakes (offside decision for goal) but to get so many relatively simple decisions wrong is shocking. Until refs understand that this is spectators main grievance, outside of old form numpties, the level of abuse they get, and some of that is unacceptable to be fair, will simply increase. The remedy for reducing a lot of this abuse therefore is in the referees own hands.

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If a player is fouled outside the box and then falls into the box then it would be a free kick at the point the foul was committed...outside the box.

If a player is continuously fouled as he enters the box then the referee has to decide at what stage during the incident the defender prevented the player from continuing a credible attack on goal. In a holding situation, provided the attacker stays on his feet and in control of the ball (is continuing his attack) then the referee could deem that he is playing advantage. However, the moment the player is brought down and/or loses control of the ball that advantage no longer exists and that is the point at which the attack has been stopped by means of foul play...and thus a penalty should be awarded.

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Was Foran offside?

Was Tade fouled in the box before he fell?

Was Hayes fouled before he lost the ball leading to the goal?

All these questions are academic as none of the decisions went in our favour.

Am I the only one who thought that it was a very soft goal and that Esson should have saved it?

I know he is a great keeper and has saved us countless times. He is therefore entitled to the odd mistake. In my eyes this was one of them, unfortunately costing us two points.

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Translation...no one really knows what the position has to do with the actual decision. In or out of the box , up in the air or down on the ground?

It's all going to happen at the ref's decision/discretion unless there is a lengthy rule which makes it even more absolutely un-clear.

:sarcastic:

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Was Foran offside?

Was Tade fouled in the box before he fell?

Was Hayes fouled before he lost the ball leading to the goal?

All these questions are academic as none of the decisions went in our favour.

Am I the only one who thought that it was a very soft goal and that Esson should have saved it?

I know he is a great keeper and has saved us countless times. He is therefore entitled to the odd mistake. In my eyes this was one of them, unfortunately costing us two points.

It was the sponsore fault for announcing that Ryan was the Man of the Match just prior to the close of 90 minutes. There should be an unwritten law that no MOM announcements are made pertaining to goalkeepers until the final whistle blows, especially when the scoreline is close.

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