Ayr v ICT matchnight thread

[Renegade]

Moving from my earlier comments on Butcher and running the course etc. Even if Butcher was to go/be sacked today (which I do not support by the way) or any time in the near future, there really isn't anyone out there either waiting in the wings or in general, who would be better and take the job. Jimmy Calderwood? Nah I'd doubt he'd be much better TBH. The return of Robertson? Nah, he's had his time. There's really no-one out there that would take the job and be better than the incumbent.

I'll just add as well, that whenever the time comes that Butcher does move on, I won't at all be surprised to see a foreign manager come in. Don't know why, but that's the feeling I get.

[AJS]

You walk into a game thinking things couldnt get any worse - but they do and in just about every way possible. We couldnt defend, we hit the woodwork, we must be the most prolific side this season for chalked off goals, and we have yet another injury to a key player.

Im not going to deny it, Ayr probably deserved to go through last night though i will say we had alot more chances than they had 2nd half, but the difference was they got 1 chance and took it, we had 5 or 6 and couldnt take any of them.

For me the season was well summed up when Andy Shinnie sent a curling shot towards the corner - only for it to whack off Tade's behind and away. Chance gone.

Im really worried now as im sure most people are and with the run of fixtures we have coming up i dont see it getting any better.

[absent friend]

Not at the match so cannot comment on our play but I do feel I have a right to comment on the thread content!

I always thought that the Ugly Sisters had the most fickle fans, followed by the Dons fans BUT we are top of the league for this.

I am almost ashamed to be part of this thread with all the attack on, what I believe to be, one of the best managers in the SPL. It was only a little while ago that 'McCoist failure at Ibrox will usher TB into their hot seat' was being spoken about on this Forum, with a 'woe is us if he goes'. Now ... he is rubbish and we will be well rid of him .. in fact we are so damned important as a team that there is queues, miles long, of better managers waiting to take his seat and lead us into Europe!!

Wake up, we are a wee team, playing with players earning wee wages who, if they were any good, would be playing for a club paying them twice as much. It is our ability to play as a team, with the aid of our managers enthusism, that allows us to punch above our weight and to undermine that enthusism with all the crap on here is sad.

If I were Terry and ventured onto this site I would be looking elsewhere for employment and thinking ... folk from the Highlands have no loyalty.

[ICTPaisley]

Not at the match so cannot comment on our play but I do feel I have a right to comment on the thread content!

I always thought that the Ugly Sisters had the most fickle fans, followed by the Dons fans BUT we are top of the league for this.

I am almost ashamed to be part of this thread with all the attack on, what I believe to be, one of the best managers in the SPL. It was only a little while ago that 'McCoist failure at Ibrox will usher TB into their hot seat' was being spoken about on this Forum, with a 'woe is us if he goes'. Now ... he is rubbish and we will be well rid of him .. in fact we are so damned important as a team that there is queues, miles long, of better managers waiting to take his seat and lead us into Europe!!

Wake up, we are a wee team, playing with players earning wee wages who, if they were any good, would be playing for a club paying them twice as much. It is our ability to play as a team, with the aid of our managers enthusism, that allows us to punch above our weight and to undermine that enthusism with all the crap on here is sad.

If I were Terry and ventured onto this site I would be looking elsewhere for employment and thinking ... folk from the Highlands have no loyalty.

First of all i don't think anyone on this thread is calling for Butchers head. I don't understand why everyone is moaning that we want him out when no one is saying that. I also dont think we are a wee team in terms of Scottish football. Last night we played Ayr United who are significantly smaller than us at the present time and yet we weren't even able to score ONE against them. They completely out classed us in the first half and we deserved to go out. Everyone who has came on here to discuss last nights fiasco is well in their rights to be frustrated with that performance last night. It was embarrasing to watch.

I only ask how long do we keep up with these stupid excuses of "the team needs more time to gel" If it takes this long to gel a team then is it really worth it? I don't think so. We had a team capable of top 6 last season so why not keep the bulk of that squad and improve it with 2 or 3 new faces, There were players that got released that are better than the current crop of players that has been brought in and Terry Butcher is the only person responsible for that.

I am behind Terry Butcher at the moment but at what point in the season does it become acceptable to start criticising Terry Butcher if we aren't allowed to do so right now? It seems like he is untouchable and will be here regardless of how poor we do this season. Do we wait until we have played everyone once and possibly bottom after 11 games? 22? 33? 38? Or maybe next season in the first. We came up first time of asking last time, i'm not too sure we'd be able to do it again.

[old caley girl]

Agree with ICT Paisley its almost as if no one dares to criticise Terry. That does not mean that anyone is calling for his head. People are/were upset and are entitled to voice concern. Terry himself has apologised to ALL the supporters for last night - he himself knows that the performance was not acceptable. Where has anyone said he is "rubbish and that we would be well rid of him! because I cant find it?

[+MrCaleyjag]

Agree with ICT and Old Caley Girl, I can't actually find one quote on here that says he must go. Can anyone actually provide me with one from this thread or even the site that says he must go?

We are all fans of the club that care about them a lot who pay our money to the club in some capacity or another and are entitled to be asking questions, that is what we are doing asking questions and voicing concerns and sicussing the current climate of our club.

[Tichy_Blacks_Back]

Two wins and we could be in the top six....simples....

[PaderbornCaley]

One thing I forgot to mention last night in the teams defence is that we did have chances - plenty in the 2nd half! Tokely hit the inside of the post and into the keepers arms. A few shots just wide. A shot that was goal bound but unfortunately Big Tade was in the way (not his fault, bit of a stramash in the box). Foran had a half volley a few yards out at a tight angle that the keeper did well to save and we scored in stoppage time - Tokely i think it was, but he was offside. We were very poor but should have won the game with our 2nd half chances. If we start to convert, then there is hope. If not, then it's time for the Private Frazer quotes!

I still believe that Butcher can get us out of this mess - or at least try. I think he has made mistakes this season, but getting rid is not going to bring back Munro or Duncan. For me, i'm glad we have a manager of his calabre and this can give us a fighting chance. Remember, a win on Saturday and there is a good chance we will be off the bottom (assuming our relegation rivals Hibs lose again!)

[CaleyD]

We had a team capable of top 6 last season so why not keep the bulk of that squad and improve it with 2 or 3 new faces

So why did we finish 7th then?

I am with you on most of what you say, but this whole "We had a team capable of top 6" thing is a load of pish. We've been close to top 6 on a couple of occasions and done the "just a few changes" thing and it's made no difference. Butcher felt it needed more radical action, and all respect to him for having the gonads to take the chance in doing what he did. Munro and Duncan were club heroes, I get that, but they weren't single handedly bringing success to the club. People need to get over it and move on.

As I've said before, I'm not expecting top 6 this season. You have to be VERY fortunate to make such a big change and see immediate success from it. For me, this season is building season and as frustrating as that might be for the fans, we have to look at what the change in style and attitude might bring long term. I remember being at a seminar about change...or more specifically, knowing when not to change. If you really believe everything you're doing is right and the results are bad then is it really you, or is it external forces? If it's external forces, can you change to counter them and if/when they change again can you quickly adapt back or is it better to ride the storm and see your plan through. It's easy to witness failure and believe change is the answer....but it's not always.

Granted, I would have hoped for a bit more than what we're witnessing at present, but when you look beyond the results at the games then there's really not a lot that needs to change for these results to be going the other way. A wee rub of the green and some of the shots that hit the woodwork find the back of the net, a few players back from injury and the chance to play a formation that is selected and not forced upon us and everything changes.

IMO this is the first time in a long time a manager at ICT has the "luxury" of succeeding or failing by his own hand. He's got his team out there playing things his way and only time will tell whether he got it right or wrong. Being just a handful of games into the season is not the time to be judging, it's the time to be getting right behind the manager and team to give them every opportunity of making the plan succeed.

I've lost count of the number of times over they years that ICT have won games and the opposition fans were saying "we should never have lost to them". The show is on the other week. It's not nice, but sometimes chit happens and you just have to get up, brush yourself down and get on with it.

[Huisdean]

Well said jaggy.

Absolute nonsense. No team has a divine right to win any game and, while we might win these games 9 times out of 10, there is always the chance the "underdog" will win. For example, ICt beating Celtic twice, Aberdeen losing to QofS, Stenhousemuir, Rangers losing to Hamilton years ago. These things happen in football which is why it is the sport it is.

[Huisdean]

We had a team capable of top 6 last season so why not keep the bulk of that squad and improve it with 2 or 3 new faces

So why did we finish 7th then?

I am with you on most of what you say, but this whole "We had a team capable of top 6" thing is a load of pish. We've been close to top 6 on a couple of occasions and done the "just a few changes" thing and it's made no difference. Butcher felt it needed more radical action, and all respect to him for having the gonads to take the chance in doing what he did. Munro and Duncan were club heroes, I get that, but they weren't single handedly bringing success to the club. People need to get over it and move on.

As I've said before, I'm not expecting top 6 this season. You have to be VERY fortunate to make such a big change and see immediate success from it. For me, this season is building season and as frustrating as that might be for the fans, we have to look at what the change in style and attitude might bring long term. I remember being at a seminar about change...or more specifically, knowing when not to change. If you really believe everything you're doing is right and the results are bad then is it really you, or is it external forces? If it's external forces, can you change to counter them and if/when they change again can you quickly adapt back or is it better to ride the storm and see your plan through. It's easy to witness failure and believe change is the answer....but it's not always.

Granted, I would have hoped for a bit more than what we're witnessing at present, but when you look beyond the results at the games then there's really not a lot that needs to change for these results to be going the other way. A wee rub of the green and some of the shots that hit the woodwork find the back of the net, a few players back from injury and the chance to play a formation that is selected and not forced upon us and everything changes.

IMO this is the first time in a long time a manager at ICT has the "luxury" of succeeding or failing by his own hand. He's got his team out there playing things his way and only time will tell whether he got it right or wrong. Being just a handful of games into the season is not the time to be judging, it's the time to be getting right behind the manager and team to give them every opportunity of making the plan succeed.

I've lost count of the number of times over they years that ICT have won games and the opposition fans were saying "we should never have lost to them". The show is on the other week. It's not nice, but sometimes chit happens and you just have to get up, brush yourself down and get on with it.

Agree with most of what you say Caley D, and think we will come good. The only thing that does concern me is that so many of the players are signed for only 1 year. If they do not sign on again at the end of the season, we could be in the boat as this year. Does anyone know why so many players were only signed for 1 year?.

[tm4tj]

At the wages we offer, it's probably as long as anyone would commit themselves to. Just a guess.

[Scarlet Pimple]

Caley D you make some interesting points.But I don't entirely agree with everthing that you write.

One thing is clear, however, and that is that we have no choice but to allow Terry to complete the season without calling for his head because he must have a fair chance to do his own thing and we have to wait, if necessary holding our noses, for the end-of-season outcome.Only then can we see if his policies have real merit.

Cheers--better days ahead.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]