Celtic

[EWS]

Harry, you obviously mis-understood me about Celtic.  I didn't slate them because they qualified, **** I said it was good that they did because it gives a chance for clubs like ours to get a European place.

I was just having a rant about their ways, their beliefs and their actions.  I in no way condone what Rangers do, and although it would be nice for them not to be part of Scottish football, recently the gaulf has started to close between 'them' and the 'rest of us.'  If I am right though, Celtic were actually started to help Catholics in the west-end and not just the Irish.

assage from Smout (an eminent Scottish Historian) 'A Century of the Scottish people ' pg 153

"Celtic was founded in 1887 by Brother Walfrid, headmaster of the Sacred Heart School in the East End of Glasgow, as a means of providing free meals for poor Catholic children."

Devine 'Scottish Nation' pg 359

"Celtic was founded by Catholic Marist Brother, Walfrid, to provide clothing, free dinners and cash support for the poor of the Catholic parishes in the east end of Glasgow"

But the argument here isn't about Celtic.  I hope Celtic get far, but then I hope that they get absolutly humiliated because it will wipe that smug look off all their fans faces that they have, especially those who feel that Rangers are in the "Diddy Cup."  Wasn't the Diddy cup a few years ago when the 8 billion people travelled to Seville.

The same can be said about Rangers.  I think it would be great for them to be in the final of the Uefa cup, but I don't want them to win it, because we would never hear the end of it.

[Heilandee]

It is perhaps an unfortunate fact of life, but Scotish football need the OF.... it would be a poorer set up without them.

Don't nessesarrily agree wi that Jonboy , my main reservation wi the OF doing well in Europe especially in the present finanacially driven climate is the huge rewards make them even more dominant and able to snap up other teams potential stars and put them on benchwarming duties.I agree the league would be lower profile but poorer........financially yes ,entertainment wise no.

[Johnboy]

Aww c'mon H'Dee.....Think of the fun we can derive out of teams like Caley that can go to Ibrox & Parkhead and win on occasions. Football fans live & dream about moments like these.....  I was Ibrox once when Dundee beat the Gers 2-3....

Wisnae a' that long ago either.... Alan Gilzean scored a hatrick......!!! 

[Heilandee]

Eh mind when we beat them 3-0, John Brown scored a hat trick......they bought him a few weeks later !!!!

Eh rest meh case.....see ya doon the pub  :drinking08:

[Johnboy]

Great to reflect in these former glory days.....I mind that game too.... is John Brown still part of Rangers coaching staff...?

[Heilandee]

believe so, reserves and youth coach....see Auxerre took yer advice last night on route one balls eh? Gers  could do we Bomber back to beef up the rear

(ooh er missus , just gettin warmed up for tonight)  :001:

edited to say , just read he left in June this year after Le Guen took over

[Kingsmills]

Much as I despise what both half of the Old Firm have stood for inthe past, personally I believe Rangers and their fans tend to be a little worse than Celtic, it's good to see Scottish clubs progressing in Europe thereby improving the nation's coefficiency rating.

Who knows, maybe ICT will benifit from their success in the next couple of seasons.

[Guest kingkojak]

the Irish anthem that refers to crushing rebellious Scots,

am i missing something or was i asleep during that history lesson?  :017:

[metalgecko]

I have little time for either of the Old Firm. Which seems more Scottish?

It is certainly not Celtic.  Walking to the game last week proved that to me. Over the top with their Irish connections. Tricolours everywhere outside the ground, fiddlers on street corners and Eire shirts all around. Inside the ground there was more of the same, tricolours hanging from every corner of every stand and sectarian songs been sung. To top it, outside there was some guy handing out leaflets about freeing some republican prisoner.

Think back to the Uefa cup final a couple of years ago. How many saltires were seen amonst the 20,000 odd 'Tic supporters? One !

Rab Douglas getting slated by his own fans because he had the audacity to take a saltire towel into his goal to dry his gloves. He never did again!

Celtic fans turning their back on the Scotland national side because they have no interest in them but go in their tens of thousands to watch an Eire friendly game at Celtic Park!

So are Celtic Scottish? They don't seem keen on showing it. Maybe they should follow the example of Hearts and have a saltire on the back of their shirts. How Scottish is that?  :thumb04:

[Harry Chibber]

I have little time for either of the Old Firm. Which seems more Scottish?

It is certainly not Celtic.  Walking to the game last week proved that to me. Over the top with their Irish connections. Tricolours everywhere outside the ground, fiddlers on street corners and Eire shirts all around. Inside the ground there was more of the same, tricolours hanging from every corner of every stand and sectarian songs been sung. To top it, outside there was some guy handing out leaflets about freeing some republican prisoner.

Think back to the Uefa cup final a couple of years ago. How many saltires were seen amonst the 20,000 odd 'Tic supporters? One !

Rab Douglas getting slated by his own fans because he had the audacity to take a saltire towel into his goal to dry his gloves. He never did again!

Celtic fans turning their back on the Scotland national side because they have no interest in them but go in their tens of thousands to watch an Eire friendly game at Celtic Park!

So are Celtic Scottish? They don't seem keen on showing it. Maybe they should follow the example of Hearts and have a saltire on the back of their shirts. How Scottish is that?  :thumb04:

Hearts & Hibs might not make it as visible as Celtic and Rangers but trust me they are just as sectarian

[EWS]

Think back to the Uefa cup final a couple of years ago. How many saltires were seen amonst the 74,365,345 'Tic supporters? One !

Changed to reflect the "reality"

:011:

[The Mantis]

Hearts & Hibs might not make it as visible as Celtic and Rangers but trust me they are just as sectarian

Well I'm not trusting you for a start  :001:

I've lived in both East and West of Scotland and been watching football since that black year 1966  :019:

Why don't you put some facts in to back up that statement?

[Harry Chibber]

Hearts & Hibs might not make it as visible as Celtic and Rangers but trust me they are just as sectarian

Well I'm not trusting you for a start  :001:

I've lived in both East and West of Scotland and been watching football since that black year 1966  :019:

Why don't you put some facts in to back up that statement?

Answers.com

"Hearts' traditional derby rivals in the city of Edinburgh are Hibernian F.C. Although there are some sectarian reasons behind the support for both sides (Hibs were initially founded as a charity side to raise money for the city's mainly Catholic Irish immigrants located around the Cowgate area of the city)"

[gerx13]

Hearts & Hibs might not make it as visible as Celtic and Rangers but trust me they are just as sectarian

So tell me when was the last time you heard a sectarian song sung at Easter Road?

"Hearts' traditional derby rivals in the city of Edinburgh are Hibernian F.C. Although there are some sectarian reasons behind the support for both sides (Hibs were initially founded as a charity side to raise money for the city's mainly Catholic Irish immigrants located around the Cowgate area of the city)"

A recent poll on hibs net had us Leith Irish stock in a very small minority and that's 2006 and not 1875 as you seem to be forming you opinion on. I'm suprised your not  accused Dundee United of being sectarian, after all they were founded as Dundee Hibernian.  :016:

[Alex MacLeod]

the Irish anthem that refers to crushing rebellious Scots,

am i missing something or was i asleep during that history lesson?   :017:

Hey KK, are you a sun reporter by any chance. If your going to quote my comments please use the whole sentence which was:

I'd go even further and say that the English anthem should not be sung by a team claiming to be Scottish. At least theres no verse in the Irish anthem that refers to crushing rebellious Scots, nor indeed any other nation

[Harry Chibber]

Hearts & Hibs might not make it as visible as Celtic and Rangers but trust me they are just as sectarian

So tell me when was the last time you heard a sectarian song sung at Easter Road?

"Hearts' traditional derby rivals in the city of Edinburgh are Hibernian F.C. Although there are some sectarian reasons behind the support for both sides (Hibs were initially founded as a charity side to raise money for the city's mainly Catholic Irish immigrants located around the Cowgate area of the city)"

A recent poll on hibs net had us Leith Irish stock in a very small minority and that's 2006 and not 1875 as you seem to be forming you opinion on. I'm suprised your not  accused Dundee United of being sectarian, after all they were founded as Dundee Hibernian.  :016:

I was actually referring to Hearts more than Hibs, during Hearts time in Europe I saw plenty of Union Jacks. Obviously they are no where near as bad as the OF but I was just replying to metalgecko who was using Hearts as an example.  I do agree though a saltire on all SPL football tops should be a requirment

[Kingsmills]

I agree with the comments regarding the saltire.

[EWS]

Although Hearts are widely considered to be sectarian, I do not think the flying of the Union Jack counts them as being sectarian....rather it is a statement of being British.

As for the Scottish National Anthem...we don't have one.  Flower of Scotland is widely sung however, Scotland the Brave is played at the Commonwealth Games, and used to be the song sung in the Rugby.

It changes.

[The Mantis]

Hey this is contagious! Harry doesn't use whole sentences either!

"Although there are some sectarian reasons behind the support for both sides (Hibs were initially founded as a charity side to raise money for the city's mainly Catholic Irish immigrants located around the Cowgate area of the city), they are nowhere near to the extent of those between Rangers and Celtic football clubs "

[Harry Chibber]

Hey this is contagious! Harry doesn't use whole sentences either!

"Although there are some sectarian reasons behind the support for both sides (Hibs were initially founded as a charity side to raise money for the city's mainly Catholic Irish immigrants located around the Cowgate area of the city), they are nowhere near to the extent of those between Rangers and Celtic football clubs "

Did I not say that in my next post anyway :006:

Still highlights the fact that there is sectarian issues between Hibs and Hearts or is that not good enough evidence for you??

[EWS]

How does it highlight the facts?  Unless I have missed anything, all you have said is that Hibs were the first Scottish team to have Irish Immigrants play wholely for them, and that Hearts fly the Union Jack.

Hardly Sectarian.

[Harry Chibber]

Some more light reading for you all.... from 4-4-2 magazine

HEARTS v HIBS IS THE SECOND OLDEST city derby in British football (Nottingham takes gold), but the clubs have vastly differing roots. Adorning the reception area at the refurbished Easter Road, a wall plaque confirms Hibernian's humble Irish Catholic roots.

Formed in 1875 by members of the Catholic Young Men's society, the club became linked with the Leith area of Edinburgh, home to many of the city's Irish immigrants. Hibernian's founders were openly sectarian and unashamedly political. The club was originally - but no longer - an organisation for Catholics only.

Their shirts sported the slogan Erin-go Brah (Ireland for ever), highlighting the club's Home Rule leanings. In Unionist Scotland, the club was viewed with suspicion, and Hibs' initial application for SFA membership was refused because it was deemed to be an Irish and not a Scottish club.

As the early champions of Irish Catholicism in a Protestant Scotland, the Edinburgh club was keen to go forth and multiply; indeed, Hibs played the part of the midwife when Celtic first drew breath in 1888. The Edinburgh club assisted its Irish cousins in Glasgow financially, practically and morally, and was repaid when the Parkhead side usurped Hibs' place in Scottish football history.

Celtic's early success rankled with Presbyterian Scotland, provoking a reaction in the shape of Glasgow Rangers, who soon found themselves the footballing Protectors of the Faith in Glasgow. In Edinburgh, meanwhile, Hearts' local rivalry with Hibs meant that, almost by default, they became the city's 'Protestant club'.

The romantically named Heart of Midlothian, named after the old Tollbooth under the tower of St Giles Cathedral in Edinburgh, and borne purely from sporting motives, is uncertain about its age. Officially, the club claims its birth to be 1874, but some evidence suggests that it may well have been a year later and, indeed, after their rivals.

Although (as I stated earlier) it is not half as bad as the goings on in Glasgow it still does exist..... Happy??? More???

[The Mantis]

OK Harry, point taken about your next post- I actually followed on from Alex at the bottom of P2 without noticing there was a page 3  :007:

But you're not getting off that easy. Your original point was:

Hearts & Hibs might not make it as visible as Celtic and Rangers but trust me they are just as sectarian

:023:

[Harry Chibber]

A simple "ok I see you have a point" would be sufficient  :014:

[EWS]

So we are talking about examples from 100 years ago?  I'm sure I could pull something out about Scots hating the Germans, doesn't mean that we are racist?

Got any up to date evidence?