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scottish independence yes or no


Feb82000

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Like others, my heart says yes but head says no, the timing is crap and we should have done it years ago.

It could be a brilliant thing to do but I don't have a good feeling about it and I also think that there are a lot more people than you think will not vote for it.

If we could nail fishing rights and oil I would say yes.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Like others, my heart says yes but head says no, the timing is crap and we should have done it years ago.

It could be a brilliant thing to do but I don't have a good feeling about it and I also think that there are a lot more people than you think will not vote for it.

If we could nail fishing rights and oil I would say yes.

We will always be told that the timing is crap. Timing was good in the 1070's but we were told then that the timing was crap. We were also told a whole heap of arguments why Scotland should not be independent by the government while at the same time the same government classified a report that concluded that Scotland would flurish under independence and be considerably richer than England, one of the strongest nations economically in Europe and be in surplus.

Fast forward to today and we again are told the timing is crap and the same reasons that were argued to decieve Scotland then are the same reasons that roll of the tounge of the government today. It's a total nonsense.

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Like others, my heart says yes but head says no, the timing is crap and we should have done it years ago.

It could be a brilliant thing to do but I don't have a good feeling about it and I also think that there are a lot more people than you think will not vote for it.

If we could nail fishing rights and oil I would say yes.

We will always be told that the timing is crap. Timing was good in the 1070's but we were told then that the timing was crap. We were also told a whole heap of arguments why Scotland should not be independent by the government while at the same time the same government classified a report that concluded that Scotland would flurish under independence and be considerably richer than England, one of the strongest nations economically in Europe and be in surplus.

Fast forward to today and we again are told the timing is crap and the same reasons that were argued to decieve Scotland then are the same reasons that roll of the tounge of the government today. It's a total nonsense.

I dont think England had any interest in the state of Scotland back in 1070.

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The fact of the matter is that there will never be a good time. England knows she will be far worse off without the Scots. If Scotland had never been important to England Bannockburn and Culloden would never have happened.

This country of ours will survive and prosper as an independant nation. The evidence is all around if anyone wants to bother looking for it. Since devolved power came to Scotland we have put more into the British economy thsat we get back yet we are still able to operate a better health service, better and cheaper education system and have frozen council tax for the fourth year in a row. If this country can do that now then what could we do with full control of revenue?

Labour will always oppose independance because they know that without Scottish seats they will never get full control of government. The Tories just dont want the risk of losing their vast swathes of land in Scotland.

The final thing I'd say, and the one that always gets on my wick, is the many people who are negative about independence because they want Salmond out of power. Hellloooo.........We are talking a democratic independent Scotland......not a dictatorship. After a positive referendum you can all vote whoever you want into government.

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Recently watched that BBC series 'A history of Scotland' series in one sitting and the one recurring theme over the centuries appeared not to be what can we do for the people but what can we do for ourselves. Not a fan of the union but just can't take the current incarnations any more serious than those of the past and their continuous berating of the English as the source of all the problems (and along with that their incessant inability to look within) and maybe that is my problem with those that call themselves the saviours of Scotland. Beating the Auld Enemy regularly in an annual football match is good enough for me but everybody has a right to their own opinion. If the people of Scotland say Aye then fair enough that is what a vote is all about but I think I would say Nae.

Edited by Tichy_Blacks_Back
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Like others, my heart says yes but head says no, the timing is crap and we should have done it years ago.

It could be a brilliant thing to do but I don't have a good feeling about it and I also think that there are a lot more people than you think will not vote for it.

If we could nail fishing rights and oil I would say yes.

We will always be told that the timing is crap. Timing was good in the 1070's but we were told then that the timing was crap. We were also told a whole heap of arguments why Scotland should not be independent by the government while at the same time the same government classified a report that concluded that Scotland would flurish under independence and be considerably richer than England, one of the strongest nations economically in Europe and be in surplus.

Fast forward to today and we again are told the timing is crap and the same reasons that were argued to decieve Scotland then are the same reasons that roll of the tounge of the government today. It's a total nonsense.

I dont think England had any interest in the state of Scotland back in 1070.

Oops, just noticed that. Obviously 1970's is what I meant

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  • 5 weeks later...

Interesting replies and like many posters I am still on the fence with my heart saying go for it.

Trouble to my mind is that many of the things that are happening with our present Scottish parliament are edging towards dictatorial influences, local governments will say one thing only to be overuled by those in power. The power pylon trail from Beauly, The golf course saga, the Invergordon incinerator, to name just three instances

Alex M. mentions we are talking a democratic Scotland not a dictatorship, I agree with this if the original definition of Democracy is used and not the modern theme of we are all in it together as long as you do as we say!

My other big concern is:- will it really help the real Highlands, Inverness and beyond to the North, or will we still just be used as a convenient area to house all the wind turbines, nuclear waste and other nasties to enable the middle belt to clean up and prosper.

I want to learn a great deal more and have firm assurances before casting my vote.

Independance for the Highlands may have to be the next agenda if things don't work out!

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If the referendum vote worked on the same rules as SPL we would need 92% to vote "yes" for independence to become a reality.

If that was the case half the country would be in administration and not be able to vote. Actually if Scotland did get independence how would it affect the flag sellers at the grounds of those great Scottish (cough cough) institutions....

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  • 2 weeks later...

it will cost me over 100 pounds a week in extra airmail

because the domestic rates of parcel post to England won't apply

Always suposing the Royal Mail don't leg it out of Scotland

so you know how I feel

Also if the Bank of England refuse to support the Scottish Pound I will have to trade in Euros

The European Central Bank will determine the Scottish budget, if the Euro applies

Edited by Laurence
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1) New British Government will remove all military basis from Scotland

2) Masive redundances in The Scottish military as regiments are closed down

3) Redundances on the Clyde as all ship building and ship repairs are moved to Belfast

4) Scotland would have to finance embassies in all capital cities in the world

5) The Royal Mail only have charter with the UK, New postal service will be required, Liklihood of post office closures

6) wages in the Irish republic are lower than in the UK

6)All Scots travelling to England will need a green card insurance

7) All Scots travelling to England will need a E111 National Insurance xard to get mefical service in Edgland

8) It is not a given that the Bank of England will support the bankcrupt Scottish banks

8) It is not known if the European banking system will axxept Scot;and into the Euro

9) It is not known how much of the UK National debt will be given to Scottland

9) It is not known how much responsibility fot places like Falklands or Gibralter Scotland will have to accept

10 If Scotland go for a lower corporation tax , England will drop theirs lower, the big boy always wins a fight

10) There are only about 2,000.000 paye tax payers in Scotland, many of whom pay to English offices having English earnings, how caqn they suport a nation

11) The millions of Scots living in England, will have no vote, they will end up living in a foreign land

12 Buy a car in England , it will have to be re-registered with Scottish plates

Many Scots have died for the Union flag, It is flown proudly throughout the world on all British merchant and naval ships, It is reconised as the symbol of a proud nation. Dont take the blue out of the Union jack

If you want Scotland to be a backwater in International terms like the Irish Republic then go along with the silly idea, but if you want Scotland to stay as part of a proud and respected Union vote No

It's a no brainer

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1) New British Government will remove all military basis from Scotland

2) Masive redundances in The Scottish military as regiments are closed down

3) Redundances on the Clyde as all ship building and ship repairs are moved to Belfast

4) Scotland would have to finance embassies in all capital cities in the world

5) The Royal Mail only have charter with the UK, New postal service will be required, Liklihood of post office closures

6) wages in the Irish republic are lower than in the UK

6)All Scots travelling to England will need a green card insurance

7) All Scots travelling to England will need a E111 National Insurance xard to get mefical service in Edgland

8) It is not a given that the Bank of England will support the bankcrupt Scottish banks

8) It is not known if the European banking system will axxept Scot;and into the Euro

9) It is not known how much of the UK National debt will be given to Scottland

9) It is not known how much responsibility fot places like Falklands or Gibralter Scotland will have to accept

10 If Scotland go for a lower corporation tax , England will drop theirs lower, the big boy always wins a fight

10) There are only about 2,000.000 paye tax payers in Scotland, many of whom pay to English offices having English earnings, how caqn they suport a nation

11) The millions of Scots living in England, will have no vote, they will end up living in a foreign land

12 Buy a car in England , it will have to be re-registered with Scottish plates

Many Scots have died for the Union flag, It is flown proudly throughout the world on all British merchant and naval ships, It is reconised as the symbol of a proud nation. Dont take the blue out of the Union jack

If you want Scotland to be a backwater in International terms like the Irish Republic then go along with the silly idea, but if you want Scotland to stay as part of a proud and respected Union vote No

It's a no brainer

I had started to reply to each point you made there but then I thought feck it, if it's going to be that bad for poor Laurence he'll surely feck off back dahn saff for his Edglish mefical care.

For that reason alone, I'm in!

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Laurence, for a lot of what you say I agree with you, but some things (like Scots in England living in a foreign land but unable to vote) are only half true. Some of your points smell like Tory alarmist propaganda, which is almost as bad as SNP smells-like-roses propaganda.

The biggest problem in the whole debate is . . . for most things we simply don't know what will happen if there were to be a split. But like many divorces, it has the potential of being horribly horribly messy and with both parties being left unnecessarily hurt due to petty internecine squabbling.

And for that reason alone I will vote no.

Edited by FoolPhysio
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On a lighter note there is a story related to Winnie Ewing who was giving a talk at a North School soon after her historic by-election victory in Hamilton in 1967. A young pupil asked her what would happen after independence with people who had a house both in England and Scotland - would they be considered as English or Scottish? Poor Winnie was a little taken aback at the level of hilarity the question produced but replied that the people would have to decide themselves whether they want to be English or Scots citizens. More laughter. The school was Gordonstoun and the boy asking the question was Prince Andrew!

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'Many Scots have died for the Union flag, It is flown proudly throughout the world on all British merchant and naval ships, It is reconised as the symbol of a proud nation. Dont take the blue out of the Union jack'

Very good point Laurence, there was once very proud Highland Regements who fought and died in many wars, Camerons, Seaforths and Queen's Own Highlanders all had great family connections throughout the Highlands. Where are they now after all the Tory and Labour cuts?

Scotland can survive without Westminster we just need to have faith in ourselves!

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  • 2 weeks later...

If you want Scotland to be a backwater in International terms like the Irish Republic then go along with the silly idea, but if you want Scotland to stay as part of a proud and respected Union vote No

It's a no brainer

I can't be bothered replying to your ignorance but all your points are a complete load of nonsense. Pretty laughable

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Living as I do, perforce, in England, it's funny as hell to see the genuine worry among the English now that they suddenly have to take seriously the possibility of Scottish independence. You get a lot of "we'd better off without you" bluster, but mostly they are just outraged at the thought - they think we are uppity servants suddenly talking about leaving and taking our stuff with us. The more thoughtful of them are also horrified by the prospect of endless Tory domination.

That said, I agree with a previous poster, that the Highlands would be treated by the Central Belt in just the way they complain about England treating them. For that reason, the Northern Isles have a nascent separatist movement...and i don't blame them.

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  • 4 weeks later...

The one thing that has to be got right this time is the rules of engagement. The Scotland Act of 1978, which allowed for the referendum of '79 demanded that at least 40% of the total registered electorate had to vote yes. Over 51% of those who voted said yes but the turnout was only 64% which was actually one of the highest turnouts for elections and such like. The government of the time knew there wouldn't be the required turnout so knew the Act would never be passed.

Short reply to Laurence.......if you were back south of the border you'd be paying for your prescriptions and your council tax would be a lot higher. Unless, of course, your living of the Scottish benefits system.

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1) New British Government will remove all military basis from Scotland. No they wont. Those bases were chosen as being strategically placed to defend from invasion.

2) Masive redundances in The Scottish military as regiments are closed down. Our traditional regiments have already been disbanded by the English Government.

3) Redundances on the Clyde as all ship building and ship repairs are moved to Belfast There is little to no shipbuilding on the Clyde since the English government chose to have our ships built abroad.

4) Scotland would have to finance embassies in all capital cities in the world Why? Britian doesn't have an embassy in all capital cities as it is.

5) The Royal Mail only have charter with the UK, New postal service will be required, Liklihood of post office closures. Many have been closed down already. Royal mail will still want the business and will continue to compete with the private sector.

6) wages in the Irish republic are lower than in the UK. No they are not. A barman in Killarney earns around Euro 13 an hour.

6)All Scots travelling to England will need a green card insurance. Why

7) All Scots travelling to England will need a E111 National Insurance xard to get mefical service in Edgland. No different to travelling to any other european country.

8) It is not a given that the Bank of England will support the bankcrupt Scottish banks. It doesn't do at present.

8) It is not known if the European banking system will axxept Scot;and into the Euro. Scotland hasn't indicated it would want to trade in Euro's

9) It is not known how much of the UK National debt will be given to Scottland. That is something open to negotiation when the time comes

9) It is not known how much responsibility fot places like Falklands or Gibralter Scotland will have to accept. Why would we have to accept any.

10 If Scotland go for a lower corporation tax , England will drop theirs lower, the big boy always wins a fight. Why would any government want to fight over corporation tax. Its a tax on profit of a company and many companies will want to trade with both Scotland and England

10) There are only about 2,000.000 paye tax payers in Scotland, many of whom pay to English offices having English earnings, how caqn they suport a nation If there are 2 million taxpayers in Scotland why would they have English earnings.

11) The millions of Scots living in England, will have no vote, they will end up living in a foreign land That is something that is still to be argued over.

12 Buy a car in England , it will have to be re-registered with Scottish plates. There is absolutely no reason why the DVLA cant be shared nor is there any reason to re-register. I can buy a car in France and have its first registration done in UK if I am importing it.

Many Scots have died for the Union flag, It is flown proudly throughout the world on all British merchant and naval ships, It is reconised as the symbol of a proud nation. Dont take the blue out of the Union jack Scotland was a nation for a hell of a lot more years than it was part of a Union

If you want Scotland to be a backwater in International terms like the Irish Republic then go along with the silly idea, but if you want Scotland to stay as part of a proud and respected Union vote No Respected Union? We are afforded so much respect that many other countries refuse to vote for our Eurovision crocks.

It's a no brainer

Just though I'd respond to your points Laurence

Edited by Alex MacLeod
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  • 3 months later...

Having given up my right to participate in this question by not living in Scotland since 4th june 1977, I hesitate to contribute. However, and whilst noting that the secession of Scotland from the rest of the UK might mean condemning the rest of us to permanent Conservative (in all its guises) government, the reverse is true for Scotland. Therefore, had I a vote, I would cast it in favour of independence in the hope that I would never again have to endure the savage butchery of the Tries.

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if we don't get out of the uk soon the conservative party will turn all the uk back to the old days like in the film oliver twist they don't care about people like us just there bank friends

Yes the Dickensian film. :P

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simple thing against all these arguments against a split from the UK. Leaving the Union will destroy Scotland and create unemployment. No it wont, as we will need a Scotpost system, A scots dvla, etc etc etc etc etc. It will actually create huge numbers of jobs as we would need to introduce all these services that the UK government will abandon. Especially since a lot of these posts are down south at their HQ's, ie Swansea dvla etc etc etc.

Point is not everything would be better for Scotland, but a hell of a lot of things would be better. Like moving house, you would always miss some of the things the old house had, but you appreciate some of the new house more!!

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