The Rangers

[dougiedanger]

If RFC dont take action very soon and call in the administrators they could find themselves in a similar position to Portsmouth who are facing a winding up order. If HMRC decide to persue this route and its granted then the company would cease trading and effectively be wound up.

Its hard to predict the future of football in Scotland without either of the OF. Without the competition of those two would the TV companies and major sponsors of the league pull out? Its easy to think that, maybe, the competition would be better with all teams having the chance of top positions but would we then become a similar standard to League of Ireland with very little TV coverage and little money to share around? Would the lower standard drive more fans away?

Love them or hate them I feel both halves of the OF are a necessary evil in Scottish football.

We have complained for years about the stranglehold the OF have on the Scottish game, and we know that the status quo does not work for anyone.

So, there seems little point in clinging to the old simply through the fear of the unknown.

In fact, it is not so unknown, as in the 80s there was proper competition, when RFC were weak. I think most of us would relish the return of that kind of competitive environment, even if we attract less sponsorship money. Young players would come through as they did in the past and as a nation we would find our proper place in the footbal hierarchy.

The Irish comparison does not really work either, as they have no real history of competitive football leagues, while we do. The reinvention of our league should be our priority, not the retention of a failed model that is strangling the game.

[starchief]

In many cases you're right but I don't think looking back to the Eighties is the right model. There are plenty of young Scots coming through. However, back then, no-one would have swapped Hibs for Rochdale. Now, look at McGuire, Allan, Goodwillie etc. All content to sit on the bench at some club, earning a few pennies, rather than staying and competing for Europe and titles. Dundee United would never have held on to Sturrock, Narey, Hegarty, Bannon, McInally, Bowman, McAlpine etc etc these days.

If Rangers collapsing (in reality, docked ten points and called Glasgow Rangers FC or some such) meant Celtic couldn't outspend everyone else, I'd be all in favour. However, without major surgery, Celtic would still have a budget that dwarves every other team. Looking to the 90s with Rangers winning everything, might be a more realistic comparison.

[dougiedanger]

In many cases you're right but I don't think looking back to the Eighties is the right model. There are plenty of young Scots coming through. However, back then, no-one would have swapped Hibs for Rochdale. Now, look at McGuire, Allan, Goodwillie etc. All content to sit on the bench at some club, earning a few pennies, rather than staying and competing for Europe and titles. Dundee United would never have held on to Sturrock, Narey, Hegarty, Bannon, McInally, Bowman, McAlpine etc etc these days.

If Rangers collapsing (in reality, docked ten points and called Glasgow Rangers FC or some such) meant Celtic couldn't outspend everyone else, I'd be all in favour. However, without major surgery, Celtic would still have a budget that dwarves every other team. Looking to the 90s with Rangers winning everything, might be a more realistic comparison.

Some good points, though I don't think the 90s comparison quite works either, as that was a time of unprecedented spending in the Scottish game, and not only among the OF. No one has that kind of money to throw about, including Celtic, who are priced out of virtually any big-name players, and who seem to be buying promising younger ones to sell on later.

The truth is that any new era would offer challenges and opportunities that have not been seen in any previous period, and that the clubs most likely to prosper will be those most able to see and exploit the opportunities that the future will hold.

[Sorted]

Only just realised today that they have borrowed (and it would seem already spent/squandered) £24 Million against future Season Ticket sales....no wonder Whyte is delaying publishing the accounts and holding an AGM!!!

That must put them in excess of £80 Million in debt and no doubt they're racking up other debts elsewhere all the while as well.

Got sent this text yesterday:

Rangers FC Press Release: Fans are reminded that the deadline for renewing season tickets for 20-17-18 is midday tomorrow. Please ensure you have made the necessary arrangements in advance

Had a good chuckle.....

[CaleyD]

Yeah, income from TV deals, sponsors etc will reduce...to begin with, but when you consider the fact that the OF take the lions share at the moment and that they are less likely to be able to command that if/when Rangers goes bust, then I don't see the rest of the teams losing out on as much as some people might think. Half the money we get now, but more evenly distributed may actually not be such a bad trade off.

Also, without the duopoly which dictates that they want 4 (league) fixtures a season against each other, then the powers that be might be more willing to look at extending the size of the league which would make it more entertaining, which I reckon would start putting more bums on seats and help offset some of what might be lost.

Sometimes, whether by fate or design, you need to go backwards to find another path that will take you further forwards.

[IBM]

What about Sir David Murray, could he be the next one to fall and become just Mr David Murray?

[+DoofersDad]

There's nothing new in spending money on season tickets in advance. I heard of a woman who bought her husband a Rangers season ticket and then saved it to give as a surprise Christmas present.

That's the kind of financial acumen we need at Ibrox to make sure they go well and truly down the toilet.

[Scarlet Pimple]

Alex

No team or set of managers is irreplaceable.

Scottish football would survive because then the clubs would probably reduce prices and hopefully get more fans in the gate. This would prop up the finances and a greater entertainment package all round? And the atmosphere at games should e better with more famns in the ground.

?

[Gabby]

Entirely up to the SPL whether or not they wanted to transfer Rangers SPL status to a new company.

I agree. Does the SPL believe that Rangers are too big to let fail? The money men at the SPL would be aghast at the loss of TV cash that would result should Rangers go bust. Dundee, Livi, Third Lanark and Gretna were allowed to die. However Rangers are a huge source of income for the SPL and I think the SPL will do everything in their power (and quite a few things outside of their power) to ensure either Rangers survival or the fast resurection of Rangers Mark II

On the other side of the coin, if Rangers and Hearts both go bust then the SPL have the 10 team comp they have been pressing for.

The SPL will not allow Rangers to disappear....unfortunatley.

[Gabby]

Alex

No team or set of managers is irreplaceable.

Scottish football would survive because then the clubs would probably reduce prices and hopefully get more fans in the gate. This would prop up the finances and a greater entertainment package all round? And the atmosphere at games should e better with more famns in the ground.

?

Are you Craig Whyte is disguise? This makes no business sense whatsoever. Say a club currently gets 4000 fans a games at say 20 pounds per head, plus TV cash. Then Rangers go bust and clubs are forced to survive on say 10% of the TV money (if they can even attract a TV deal). Club announces price reduction to attract fans - if the club halves the price of tickets, the club would need 8000 fans a game to get the same game day income. Also players would escape to the English Conference istead of League One for better pay. In other words, it would be on the same level as the Irish League.

[CaleyD]

I'd happily take a deal that saw us get 10% of the TV money....it's more than we get now!!!!

[Gabby]

I'd happily take a deal that saw us get 10% of the TV money....it's more than we get now!!!!

Sorry Caley D I think you misunderstood. I meant that the total value of the TV cash would be 10% of of the current TV deal. In other words ICT may receive a larger proportion of a much smaller pie. The net result would be reduced TV cash for all clubs with the possible exception of Celtic.

In saying that, while there would be some short term pain, I think it would result in a much better, competitive league in the long term.

[Gabby]

Here is a really good article that explain this situation:

http://www.heraldsco...l-club.16648763

And here is an even better article:

http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/01/29/the-flawed-logic-of-the-scottish-medias-stance-on-rangers-troubles/

Edited February 5, 2012 by Gabby

[starchief]

Looking at your second link, there's a lot I don't like about the blog's logic. It reads like it's written by someone that doesn't really follow football but who's mild preference is for Celtic.

It is funny, but I cannot seem to recall the floods of stories from Messrs Traynor, Keevins, English et alia warning that the desire of Celtic and/or Rangers to leave the SPL and play in England, or the Atlantic League, or the Inter-Galactic Footie Bowl would kill Scottish football stone dead.

I do. I remember a lot of opposition and calls for the OF to stop whining and make the SPL better.

There were no clamours for the playing field to be levelled when Rangers were winning nine consecutive Championships

Yes there was. Initially, it boosted the other clubs, with the likes of Aberdeen signing a player for £1M, Hearts bidding £1M for Lee McCulloch etc but after a few years, I distinctly remember people saying how boring it was.

Frankly that “logic“ can only be the result of (a) flawed thinking or (b) anti-Celtic bias

Ah, the old defence. If someone disagrees with you, suggest something sinister, rather than a difference of opinion.

If the contention is that it would leave an uneven playing field and that Celtic would win all of the trophies all of the time, then, frankly, why does Scottish football not turn into a competition where Rangers and Celtic play only each other?

Isn't that the whole problem???

[CaleyD]

I'd happily take a deal that saw us get 10% of the TV money....it's more than we get now!!!!

Sorry Caley D I think you misunderstood. I meant that the total value of the TV cash would be 10% of of the current TV deal. In other words ICT may receive a larger proportion of a much smaller pie. The net result would be reduced TV cash for all clubs with the possible exception of Celtic.

In saying that, while there would be some short term pain, I think it would result in a much better, competitive league in the long term.

Nah, I understood, was just being a little facetious because the suggestion that an SPL without a dominant Rangers (and Celtic) would be worth 10% of it's current value is a tad ridiculous.

[dougiedanger]

Looks like Mr Whyte might have to do without any further Scottish Cup cash too. :(

[dougal]

Today's result could well be another nail in their coffin if you ask me

What worries me if they do become defunct is that we will get an influx of local orcs appearing at TCS, let's hope not!!!!

Dougal

[starchief]

I wonder about McCoist's role now. He's on a hiding to nothing with the current situation but you can't help wonder what an experienced manager might be able to pull out of the hat. Would a Craig Brown or a Jimmy Calderwood have stronger network of contacts at a lower level? Would a Bobby Williamson or a Paul Sturrock have a better command of tactics than an untried manager? Would a Jim Jeffries be able to entice the likes of Rudi Skacel and David Templeton? Tempting to think so for their supporters.

[Alex MacLeod]

If Rangers were to go completely and there were left a number of football fans looking for another outlet for their matchday entertainment then I'd welcome them with open arms.

Personally I think that, now they are out of the cup, and, with the team they have just now, it looks very like they are out of the title race Rangers will go into voluntary administration. They will know they have enough leeway to avoid falling into a relegation battle so will stay in SPL. That then gives them till start of next season to regroup and work towards getting out of administration. And if it takes longer than that they start next season on a ten point deficit. In that time they keep operating as a going concern and they get a load of debt written off. They may also have to sell off some assetts, reduce their squad and get rid of Murray Park but I dont think there's enough value in Ibrox to force the sale of that. Not many developers out there prepared to take on all the problems of a listed building.

[Alex MacLeod]

I wonder about McCoist's role now. He's on a hiding to nothing with the current situation but you can't help wonder what an experienced manager might be able to pull out of the hat. Would a Craig Brown or a Jimmy Calderwood have stronger network of contacts at a lower level? Would a Bobby Williamson or a Paul Sturrock have a better command of tactics than an untried manager? Would a Jim Jeffries be able to entice the likes of Rudi Skacel and David Templeton? Tempting to think so for their supporters.

Network of contacts isn't much use if your in administration.

[CaleyD]

Today's result could well be another nail in their coffin if you ask me

What worries me if they do become defunct is that we will get an influx of local orcs appearing at TCS, let's hope not!!!!

Dougal

You crack me up....complaining about lack of support from the local area in one thread and hoping that we don't convert people to the cause and bring them in on an another!!!

[starchief]

I wonder about McCoist's role now. He's on a hiding to nothing with the current situation but you can't help wonder what an experienced manager might be able to pull out of the hat. Would a Craig Brown or a Jimmy Calderwood have stronger network of contacts at a lower level? Would a Bobby Williamson or a Paul Sturrock have a better command of tactics than an untried manager? Would a Jim Jeffries be able to entice the likes of Rudi Skacel and David Templeton? Tempting to think so for their supporters.

Network of contacts isn't much use if your in administration.

They're not in administration. They made one signing in Celik. Possibly a more experienced manager could have done more with that wage. Who knows? Must be tempting to think that way for some supporters and the board.

[dougal]

Today's result could well be another nail in their coffin if you ask me

What worries me if they do become defunct is that we will get an influx of local orcs appearing at TCS, let's hope not!!!!

Dougal

You crack me up....complaining about lack of support from the local area in one thread and hoping that we don't convert people to the cause and bring them in on an another!!!

How exactly do you suggest converting one of them, once an Orc always an Orc IMO

You maybe quite happy sitting next to union jack waving bigot but I'm most definitely not

With that kind of attitude I can see now why you previously voted yes to kill of your previous team

Dougal

[Alex MacLeod]

Today's result could well be another nail in their coffin if you ask me

What worries me if they do become defunct is that we will get an influx of local orcs appearing at TCS, let's hope not!!!!

Dougal

You crack me up....complaining about lack of support from the local area in one thread and hoping that we don't convert people to the cause and bring them in on an another!!!

How exactly do you suggest converting one of them, once an Orc always an Orc IMO

You maybe quite happy sitting next to union jack waving bigot but I'm most definitely not

With that kind of attitude I can see now why you previously voted yes to kill of your previous team

Dougal

By not tarring them all with the one brush. They're not all as you describe but to describe them all as such is just to show yourself up to be as much a bigot as the minority who sing the songs and wave the flags.

[dougal]

Minority my erse

You either don't live in the real world ,wear blue tinted spectacles or both

When you hear a packed Ibrox in full voice or any Rangers support in any away ground in Scotland or Europe it is the majority not a minority who belt these songs out

Wisen up

Dougal