Muirfield investment?

[Sorted]

That's three squeezed together for impact IHE?

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Apologies as it should have read one-upmanship which is still really one word.

Its meaning is " The art of outdoing or showing up a rival or competitor, as in exploits, privileges, or honors." or " A cycle of trying to one-up or outdo an opponent" - very, very apt.

If I were to utilise two words they would be "Projected Control"

It is sometimes easier for us to control others when indeed we cannot control ourselves. To control ourselves, we have to know ourselves. However, instead of taking the time to look at our attributes and deficiencies, we project them on to others and turn these other people into "puppets" of ourselves. By controlling others on whom we've projected ourselves, we are, in essence, feeling in control of ourselves.

An alternative may be "human puppetry".

[Tichy_Blacks_Back]

From Inverness Courier

http://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/News/Cash-injection-close-states-Caley-Thistles-newest-director-05032012.htm

Cash injection close states Caley Thistle's newest director

By Andy Dixon

THERE is only one more hurdle to be negotiated before a six-figure investment in Inverness Caley Thistle is secured, it can be revealed.

The Scottish Premier League club’s newest director, Richard Smith, says the matter must be dealt with in order to trigger investment from a group of expatriate supporters.

The five-strong party — who all have homes in Inverness but are based around the world — have come together to form an investment company called Muirfield Mills.

Mr Smith, director of Allied Surveyors Scotland, in Fairways Business Park, will be the group’s voice on the Caley Thistle board.

He replaces former club chairman George Fraser, who stood down in September when he was replaced at the helm by Kenny Cameron.

Negotiations towards securing the investment have been ongoing since last summer and has included club president David Sutherland, who was the majority shareholder as head of the Tulloch Group, reaching an agreement in relation to his company’s shares of just under 30 per cent.

The shareholding — reportedly worth up to £500,000 — has been transferred to the Inverness Caledonian Trust.

Mr Sutherland, who was willing to offload the shares for free if it meant the club’s progress could continue, retained his personal shares of less than two per cent.

[Alex MacLeod]

Interesting....................who is the Inverness Caledonian Trust? Are they the same as Inverness Caledonian Thistle Trust Limited a dormant company registered at Companies House as a construction and civil engineering company and who's directors are Mr Allan George Sellar, Mr David John Stewart and Mr David Fraser Sutherland. Registered business address is in Stoneyfield Business Park.

[caleyboy]

Interesting....................who is the Inverness Caledonian Trust? Are they the same as Inverness Caledonian Thistle Trust Limited a dormant company registered at Companies House as a construction and civil engineering company and who's directors are Mr Allan George Sellar, Mr David John Stewart and Mr David Fraser Sutherland. Registered business address is in Stoneyfield Business Park.

So the Tulloch shares have been transferred to a Trust, controlled by the builder - wow what a difference! Richard Smith now on board but still no money. I justcan't see why Sutherland would give up control for £250k? I'm sure you are also aware that Mr Smith has very strong connections with our Mr Sutherland - very convenient!

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

The proverbial penny appears to be dropping

[+Fraz]

10K could be put aside for a safe standing area perhaps?

[Gabby]

DoofersDad, I fully agree with your sentiments on footballer's wages and lack of giving return to football.

The time to cap football wages is long overdue, pay 'win' bonuses at reasonable levels to give incentives yes, or for bringing on new incentives for investments in the teams they play for, or in providing youth training and encouragement.

Most get their money far too easily Time they gave their supporters something back!!!!

A capping system would be of considerable help to all clubs and cut down the Prima Donna factor so many have.

The only way that would work is if a league had a fixed salary cap. And the only way if would be effective is if every football league has a salary cap. Salary caps or wage limits are incompatible with leagues that have relegation because teams will risk breaking the cap to avoid relegation.

Wage limitation is also very easy to get around by clubs. instead of paying players directly, they would have sponsors or other third parties make payments for them. It would create more problems than it solves.

I have seen articles suggesting wages be limited to a percentage of turnover. while this is good in theory it just perpetuates the strength of wealthy clubs.

We have salary caps for all professional sports in Oz and the experience has been that they are very difficult to police. Every incident of serious breaches have been uncovered by excellent investigative journalists rather than the governing bodies of the sport.

I will stick my neck out with a prediction. In the next 10 years wages growth in football will be negative. There are just too many clubs in the major leagues that are hanging on by a thread. There only needs to be a hiccup with TV money and the whole house of cards comes down and it will be the Spanish or Italian league that goes down first.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Gabby

[Libero]

Sounds like this may be nearing a conclusion:

http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottish-premier/inverness/301158-ex-pat-group-to-acquire-major-stake-in-inverness-caledonian-thistle/

A deal which will see a group of foreign based Inverness fans acquire a significant stake in the club looks set to go through within the next seven days.

STV revealed eight months ago that the ex pat group, who are operating under the name Muirfield Mills, want to invest £250,000 in the club, and take on major shareholder David Sutherland's 30% stake.

STV understands the one obstacle, which has held up the move for the last few months, has now been removed - and an official announcement is expected either by the end of this week, or the start of next week.

[bauhaus]

the problem with this top line for players, say it was ten grand a week in Scotland, a hundred grand a week in the EPL, Fourty grand in the Championship, etc etc. All that would happen with the big clubs would be offshore payments !!!! or massive signing on fees ie £ 25 million for van Persie to sign on at Stamford Bridge

[12th Man]

Has all of this been drawn out for months over £250,000.

[caley100]

Just what i had said a while ago! will £1/4m buy a third of ICT from DS?? feckin hope not, as that sum of money is going to make feckall difference in the big scheme of things.

[+Tree]

Just what i had said a while ago! will £1/4m buy a third of ICT from DS?? feckin hope not, as that sum of money is going to make feckall difference in the big scheme of things.

Seems a high amount for a 25% share in a 'business' which does make a profit, has limited tangible assets (including no property) and a negative outlook in terms of income generation over the next five years.

[caley100]

Nobody invests money into football clubs these days with a serious view of profitable return, more like buying into something you have a passion for and want to support financially.

I would do the same if my lottery numbers came up.

I'm just attempting to get some accurate news on what is really going on at the club and what our plans are for the future, an investment would be welcome but if a group of wealthy businessmen can only scrape up £250k its not going to alter the club very much!

Edited March 22, 2012 by caley100

[+DoofersDad]

What is the obstacle that has held this up over the last few months? Can they not get their piggy banks open?

[CaleyD]

For once!!! I've remained largely silent over a major event at ICT.

That's not to say I don't have an opinion, or indeed that I do not have any concerns.....however, as has already been highlighted, there's only one real reason why anyone would look to be putting money in to ICT at the moment, and that is because they have a genuine interest in improving things. Whether that is because they fancy a wee play thing, or because they have a real passion for ICT and the means to invest is anyone's guess at the moment, but there's no denying that ICT need a bit of money and some new direction and with nothing to be "stripped" in terms of assets then we have little to lose one way or the other.

ICT's quest for the SPL may have been achieved without saddling us with any debt, but it also left us with no money, nor assets which to borrow against to allow us to grow the business. We are effectively surviving hand to mouth and without change and investment then it's only a matter of time before we face an event that will sink us.

I'd love to be sitting here knocking the idea of the current deal on the basis that the fans were never given the option to invest at the currently stated level in return for a greater share in the club...but the truth is that there's not enough desire among the fans for such a thing at this moment in time. Until that changes there's little point in, or valid basis for, creating a fuss over it.

[Alex MacLeod]

In actual fact CD, if fans want to invest they still can, provided the board approve the request.

[CaleyD]

In actual fact CD, if fans want to invest they still can, provided the board approve the request.

Yeah, but we're not being offered the chance to obtain already issued shares in addition to those that would be received by investing in the club, which is what I believe is happening here.

But as I said, it's a fairly mute point because even if the offer was there then I don't believe it would be taken up.

[Tichy_Blacks_Back]

So ICTFC is worth about

[Joe DiMaggio]

So ICTFC is worth about £850K?

Not a lot for many out this way with a passing interest in football. So somebody with a spare mill could possibly buy the club just so that they could see their play thing on tv :-)

David Murray sold Rangers for £1 to Craig White. So we are worth 850,000 x as much as Rangers

Edited March 23, 2012 by Joe DiMaggio

[PullMyFinger]

One word - one up man ship.

That's three squeezed together for impact IHE?

[caleyboy]

I'd love to be sitting here knocking the idea of the current deal on the basis that the fans were never given the option to invest at the currently stated level in return for a greater share in the club...but the truth is that there's not enough desire among the fans for such a thing at this moment in time. Until that changes there's little point in, or valid basis for, creating a fuss over it.

If the beloved builder kept his word when he insisted the "Members Club" voting rights be transferred to the Supporters Trust, the fans would have a very significant, infact almost controlling interest in our club by now. How words can be so shallow - it happens every day in football - NOT a business/people to be trusted in any way!

[CaleyD]

The Members Club voting right was transferred to the Supporters Trust.

[Scotty]

At the end of the day, ICT have been very lucky in some ways ...... we have generally had people at the helm, or in positions of extreme influence due to their own shareholdings, or control over other (company/organisational) shareholdings, who have had our club's best interests at heart.

Regardless of anyone's personal opinions about Messrs McGillivray, Sutherland, Savage, Catto, Fraser, et all ... I firmly believe they have all been of a mind to try and move the club forward in their own way(s) and for the most part they have done that. If you doubt that, sit back and think for a moment and reflect on the next phrase .... Highland League to Scottish Premier League in 10 years !!!!!

It is true to say that not everyone has agreed with everything each of these individuals did, that not everything they did may have been the correct decision, or that some "hard" decisions may have been unpalatable to some of our support, and that there have also been some fairly high profile personality clashes between them ... but ultimately, this club has moved forward under each and every one of them whether in a chairmanship role, a directorship or just as a major shareholder or person of influence.

It is also true to say that not one of the names mentioned has got rich off the back of ICT, if anything, they probably dropped a zero or two off their personal wealth by being involved in ICT. There may have been an element of benefit in terms of local PR to their businesses, but not to the detriment of ICT. Its more of a symbiotic relationship than anything else. Look around football in both England and Scotland and you can find plenty of examples past and present where this is not the case ......

As for the group of ex-pats going under the Muirfield Mills name, I know nothing of who they are, what they are offering, or what they want in return other than what I have read on here or in other corners of the Internet, but as an ex-pat myself (and not one associated with this group I hasten to add), I know that far from waning, my support for ICT continues to grow ... I guess absence does make the heart grow fonder, and it also has the added benefit of removing some of the political bullshit that tends to fly around if you start talking about power struggles !!!

CaleyD mentioned earlier up in the thread, that the motive in his opinion is unlikely to be asset stripping as we have no assets to strip, and I agree with this assessment ... If these guys are truly ICT fans who have a bit of money and want to try and continue to move the club forward then I am 100% behind that notion ... Many of us have posted about the few million we would throw at ICT if we got a huge lottery win .... these guys may be of more modest means, but in this climate, throwing money at a smaller football club (with no tangible assets) is done for love not return on investment so it is to be applauded ! I dont really give a rats ass who they are friends with, or who they may or may not have on their Christmas card list .... if their motive is the continued progressions and success of ICT then its something I can wholeheartedly get behind.

[Alex MacLeod]

I've no doubt this group mean well, just as others have in the past, and I'm sure their money is welcome. I do, however have trepidations about who they are and what they intend to bring. £250k is the initial investment Mr Savage made which gave him a 12% share so I dont see how, as suggested, the same amount would give others a greater share unless the shares Mr Sutherland is transferring relinquish any voting right. I'm inclined to think that people have misinterprated the press here though in that Muirfield Mills intention is not to take over Sutherlands shareholding but to dilute it by buying up some free shares.

Mr Savage, give him his due, has continued to invest in the club with sponsorship. What will Muirfield invest? Mr Sutherland and other board members have bankrolled us in times of hardship. Are Muirfield going to do that. I fear that this group is investing a pittance for control of a plaything.

Finally, if this group are set up as a company calling themselves Muirfield Mills why have they not yet registered with Companies House?