Rangers go into administration

[bauhaus]

SPL wanting the SFL money, to pay the SFL with, aint that a bit stupid, SFL need to look after themselves, as it is obvious the SPL look after no1. That would be denying all the 3rd division clubs the money they are due from Live games.

Fecking erses, just pure greed

[Tichy_Blacks_Back]

Indeed - you have to say that the balance of power is with the SFL on this one....

....and SFL have now stated that they will not be stripping old Rangers of any league cup titles between 2001 and 2010.

[Oddquine]

Seems reasonable that SPL need money from TV to pay £2m to SFL.

Someone needs to point out to Sevco's Manager that they have never won any trophies so they will not lose anything. Old Rangers (of whom he is no longer employed by) may lose a few though if found guilty of cheating

Wonder if the SPL can't meet their contractual responsibilities with the SFL if that will sign the death knell for the SPL and a return to reality for Scottish Football? Would be good to get back to a previous time when the wee doggie of Scottish Football stopped eternally humping the leg of the monstrous self-important OF, like this--> and remembered that no other league anywhere wants them....because if they did they wouldn't still be here causing all these problems..so Scottish football is the only game in town for them.

There are no bears, even the very few non-vituperative ones on forums, who even remotely consider that Rangers is no more and that Sevco are a new club with no playing history, no silverware and are, into the bargain, flaming lucky to have been able to get into any league at all, without also having to buy an up and running club and replacing them as Airdrie United had to do, given the Newco has just been invented out of clear air.

Reading the Rangers forums, the punters are quite blithely throwing around the prospect of 3rd division wages of £5000 plus for their players...which is where all this came in in the first place, methinks..buying success.

[PaderbornCaley]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...aign=sportsound

[Rasczak]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...aign=sportsound

I was just reading that. At least it will show 'The People™' that he does have the Rangers mindset, "if you say or do anything against us it must be bigotry, it can't be because we did wrong can it."

[Oddquine]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...aign=sportsound

I was just reading that. At least it will show 'The People™' that he does have the Rangers mindset, "if you say or do anything against us it must be bigotry, it can't be because we did wrong can it."

They all make me sick. And are doing themselves no favours with thinking punters.

Has anybody read Ally McCoist's latest self-serving whine.here........http://www.heraldsco...ignity.18276006

The only dignity stripped from what used to be Rangers is the dignity they stripped from themselves.......by never expecting to be found out cheating every other club in Scottish Football so they could eternally scream with hate-filled faces "WE ARRA PEEPUL!" and girning when they were found out when they spent more than they could repay.

And then they continued to strip all dignity, with the efforts of the administrators to remove Rangers responsibility for anything, and failing that to their efforts regarding ameliorating Rangers responsibility for everything...and girning when that didn't work.

And then they continued to strip dignity by thinking they could have the cake of a Rangers unchanged and untouched, history, titles, silverware etc, a position in the upper echelons of Scottish Football..because "WE ARRA PEEPUL!" and, in their opinion, a helluva sight more important than every other team in Scottish Football........and girning because, despite their thinking that they are entitled to a free pass to do what they like without consequences, they are the only ones on this earth who think that they are is important in real life as they are in their own minds.

I fervently hope they are not going to get off scot-free, though I hae ma doubts given the frankly cringe-inducing reports from those running Scottish Football at all levels....but they shouldn't. Does the history the Newco insists they have bought and paid for and should always have not include the rampant long-term cheating?

I do have to say that I can agree with McCoist re the complete and utter incompetence of the SFA hierarchy.....and I'd include the SPL and SFL hierarchies in that as well. Maybe about time there was a Scottish Football Fan Facebook page entitled......KIck out all the Arseholes running Scottish Football now, and elect people who actually have the ability to consider that Scottish Football is not best served by Arselicking sectarianism for money.

Fan power might have as much effect as it did with the relegating TheRangers/Newco to SFL3 (if they manage to get there permanently).

Got my own opinion as to what is liable to happen next season without any fan input re a rejig of Scottish football, with the same heid bummers in charge..and it doesn't bear thinking about.

Rant over.

[+Tree]

I do have to say that I can agree with McCoist re the complete and utter incompetence of the SFA hierarchy.....and I'd include the SPL and SFL hierarchies in that as well. Maybe about time there was a Scottish Football Fan Facebook page entitled......KIck out all the Arseholes running Scottish Football now, and elect people who actually have the ability to consider that Scottish Football is not best served by Arselicking sectarianism for money.

Perhaps we'll not agree too much with the man who has managed to ignore the fact that he was warned by people such as Walter Smith not to get involved with Whyte and then claimed he knew nothing.

The same man who demanded that an independant panel should be named, presumably to allow the low life to make threats against them and their families.

And the same person who within the last 10 days has in essence said that cheats should be allowed to keep their trophies.

I would agree that wholesale change is needed both in structure and in the people who are running it. Perhaps giving fans, who for example Jonny Hayes said last week "showed their passion" by trying to start a fight with opposition fans for no reason other than their following a different team, cart blanch to have a say may not necessarily lead to the outcome the more reasonably minded are looking for.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Tree

[buckett]

The scary thing is that Green seems to think the debts of OldCo should be written off and should not be the responsibility of NewCo.

Somebody has to pay these debts, and if it's not Rangers (in whichever guise), it's probably all the other clubs, and you and me!

He also seems to think the fans have no right to influence the way their club's upper management vote. Does he not realise that without the fans, there would be no point in the football club?

[Oddquine]

I do have to say that I can agree with McCoist re the complete and utter incompetence of the SFA hierarchy.....and I'd include the SPL and SFL hierarchies in that as well. Maybe about time there was a Scottish Football Fan Facebook page entitled......KIck out all the Arseholes running Scottish Football now, and elect people who actually have the ability to consider that Scottish Football is not best served by Arselicking sectarianism for money.

I would agree that wholesale change is needed both in structure and in the people who are running it. Perhaps giving fans who as an example Jonny Hayes showed their passion by trying to start a fight with opposition fans for no reason other than their following a different team cart blanch to have a say may not necessarily lead to the outcome the more reasonably minded are looking for.

Sorry....don't quite understand that last paragraph after the first sentence.

[Oddquine]

The scary thing is that Green seems to think the debts of OldCo should be written off and should not be the responsibility of NewCo.

Somebody has to pay these debts, and if it's not Rangers (in whichever guise), it's probably all the other clubs, and you and me!

He also seems to think the fans have no right to influence the way their club's upper management vote. Does he not realise that without the fans, there would be no point in the football club?

Tbh, if Newco was prepared not to consider themselves, not to act as if they are, and not to claim the history and titles of Oldco, I might almost be able to wear Oldco being treated like every other company which goes into administration. After all it appears to be the rule in the UK that companies can duck out of their responsibilities with impunity, leaving many smaller companies in dire straits. But that does not generally mean that from the ashes of the old company springs exactly the same failed entity but with a different management, the same staff, and everything else which has delineated the company for its whole previous existence intact and untouched, including all sponsorship and TV rights..

But Newco needs to be considered as oldco reincarnated, sprung like a phoenix from the ashes....otherwise they'd have been facing starting from the very bottom.......as in entering the Southern League to learn their trade and acquire the required qualifications to join the League, which would have been the situation if all they had come in and done was buy Ibrox, Murray Park and the car park, and hadn't included the players, the SPL share, which technically was not in the direct gift of the administrators, the sponsorship and TV rights contracts etc.

And that being the case, because Newco's whole corporate strategy is predicated around being Rangers oldco..they can't simply accept only the benefits the oldco cheats have accrued in the past with stolen money....but also must accept at least a very large chunk of the penalties which are likely to accrue to oldco. Wish I could believe the Scottish Football powers that be would make them accept that..but I don't.

Logically, either newco is not oldco......and have no football history. Their only real connection with oldco, if they were to be considered as other new companies are, is that they own the bricks and mortar assets of oldco Rangers. Apart from that, they are a completely new company..and are now sitting in SFL3, albeit in a provisional situation, That, imo is an undeserved concession which was forbidden to Airdrie United when it found itself in the same situation.

or

Newco is oldco, in which case, they have to accept responsibility for oldco actions, make the necessary reparations and accept the responsibility and the consequences..in return for the continuation of the history and sectarian crap etc.

or

as Newco appears to prefer, they are oldco when it suits.....and newco when it doesn't.......so in oldco mode they are entitled to call themselves Rangers or a variation on that theme, are entitled to hold on to the history, the titles, the fans and are entitled to claim, in their opinion, the money which accrued to oldco for the 2011-2012 season...and in newco mode, they do not have to accept the full player embargo originally applied to oldco, they are not prepared to accept any penalties which might accrue to oldco after the EBT investigation and most definitely will not accept any title stripping if the EBT investigation finds oldco guilty of buying their titles over the last decade......and in hybrid oldco/newco mode they have been entitled to be a shoo-in to the SFL, even if not at the level at which they felt entitled......which to date, appears to be the nearest thing to a real penalty which has been received by either entity.

The man is an entrepreneur, not a person in touch with the world outside business.....and views Newco as a business to make the shareholders money. When was the last time a business took any notice of any but its corporate shareholders. To him, allowing the fans any right to a say would be to admit that customers were more than just cash cows existing only to making him a profit.

Let's all prove him wrong!

[The Mantis]

Rant over.

Aw no, you promised....... :lol: :lol:

[Oddquine]

Rant over.

Aw no, you promised....... :lol: :lol:

Nope, I promised not to discuss team tactics, offer team selections and any other football playing oriented item which requires knowing what I am talking about re the modern game. I didn't promise to stop pontificating.

I don't have to know anything about any of the above to have an opinion on oldco Rangers/newco whoever they are today.,and the rank incompetence of the Scottish football heid bummers.

[Laurence]

As a result of the demise of Rangers old Co

The UK tax coffers are somewhere in the region of £80. million light

This would build maybe four new secondary schools, A couple of hospitals or

Pay for dueling the A9

Robbing the tax is robbing us all

[Oddquine]

As a result of the demise of Rangers old Co

The UK tax coffers are somewhere in the region of £80. million light

This would build maybe four new secondary schools, A couple of hospitals or

Pay for dueling the A9

Robbing the tax is robbing us all

It would almost have been worth £80 million to get Rangers consigned to the dustbin of life...but the irritation is, they are still here practically unchanged.

[bauhaus]

The thing is, if its newco and no ties to old then they have no debts to pay, no sanctions against them. However, as they want the history, they carry the football debt, take relegation and the signing embargo.

All clubs buy success, just costs them differring amounts. If a team won the SPL without buying it, it would have to be amatuers Queens Park. Celtic will win the SPL title this season, and cos no one else can pay the same money, they will be buying the title.

The EBT system used by Rangers was not illegal, in fact many other clubs have paid players this way, but the HMRC are closing these legal loopholes. Manchester United use these loopholes just the same, as do Chelsea, Arsenal Man City etc.

One thing Green hasn't learnt in my opinion, accussing people of things they aint doesn't do you any favours, look at folks opinion of Neil Lennon. And is it irony that Mr Lennon looks like being investigated for dodging tax now,

SPL and SFA dont look good after this pantomine, but SFL do come out looking and smelling better than their admin cousins

[Oddquine]

The thing is, if its newco and no ties to old then they have no debts to pay, no sanctions against them. However, as they want the history, they carry the football debt, take relegation and the signing embargo.

All clubs buy success, just costs them differring amounts. If a team won the SPL without buying it, it would have to be amatuers Queens Park. Celtic will win the SPL title this season, and cos no one else can pay the same money, they will be buying the title.

The EBT system used by Rangers was not illegal, in fact many other clubs have paid players this way, but the HMRC are closing these legal loopholes. Manchester United use these loopholes just the same, as do Chelsea, Arsenal Man City etc.

One thing Green hasn't learnt in my opinion, accussing people of things they aint doesn't do you any favours, look at folks opinion of Neil Lennon. And is it irony that Mr Lennon looks like being investigated for dodging tax now,

SPL and SFA dont look good after this pantomine, but SFL do come out looking and smelling better than their admin cousins

I don't think the problem is the legality or otherwise of the EBTs. The Football authorities would have no say in determining that, though it is probably something which has already been looked at by HMRC. .

The SFA’s Articles Of Association state

12.3 Furthermore, all payments, whether made by the club or otherwise, which are to be made to a player solely relating to his playing activities must be fully recorded within the relevant written agreement with the player prior to submission to the Scottish FA and/or the recognised football body of which his club is in membership.

The EBTs were not declared, and therein lies the problem. It's about breaking the rules laid down by the Football Authorities, not breaking the law.

By not declaring the EBTs to the Football Authorities, however, they were able to hide them and thus tax was avoided......but whether that was the real reason for setting them up in the first place is a moot point.

[NormaStitz]

In the unlikely event that Rangers get promoted, does anyone know if the SFL will be giving a 'parachute payment' to whoever's relegated from Div 2? There might be a few Div 2 clubs aiming for mid-table mediocrity with next season in mind.

[Laurence]

Interesting debate this

I think the little clubs in the lower divisions will enjoy the cash from a visit from Rangers

If they get punished like Livingstone ?

I could run a football team using other peoples money

Money could be made but at what cost?

Some of these sleepy villages or towns will get destroyed when thousands of Orcs turn up on a Saturday afternoon

Dougal

So it came to pass-, words of the prophet Dougal in february

Edited July 31, 2012 by Laurence

[Caley]

Interesting debate this

I think the little clubs in the lower divisions will enjoy the cash from a visit from Rangers

If they get punished like Livingstone ?

I could run a football team using other peoples money

Money could be made but at what cost?

Some of these sleepy villages or towns will get destroyed when thousands of Orcs turn up on a Saturday afternoon

Dougal

So it came to pass-, words of the prophet Dougal in february

Always suspected that the ramblings of Laurence and Dougal were from the same keyboard, that being the one belonging to Alan Douglas.

[Laurence]

Interesting debate this

I think the little clubs in the lower divisions will enjoy the cash from a visit from Rangers

If they get punished like Livingstone ?

I could run a football team using other peoples money

Money could be made but at what cost?

Some of these sleepy villages or towns will get destroyed when thousands of Orcs turn up on a Saturday afternoon

Dougal

So it came to pass-, words of the prophet Dougal in february

Always suspected that the ramblings of Laurence and Dougal were from the same keyboard, that being the one belonging to Alan Douglas.

I can't let you get away with this statement unchallenged.

I am being serious now, not my usual laid back really unconcerned self.

I feel the above statement is the daftest post I have ever read on this forum.

It states that Dougal and I, are one and the same person, or at least use the same machine.

That is what is totally daft and I think is either said under the influence of drink or Caley has lost his marbles.

In any event I cannot but think he is making mischief for the sake of it.

In the above post I was referring to statements made last February which foretold the future, at a time when nobody thought that Rangers would not get a reprieve. I t was thought tha Rangers would be bought by a rich guy and rebooted in the SPL, having paid around a third of the debt off instead of the miserable 9p in the pound which was actually suggested. Nobody really thought that Rangers would be playing in Div 3 so that is why I referred to a prophet

I rather feel I have fallen for mind games here, if it was just me I would not get involved, but Dougal is an innocent party here,

Caley you should apologise to him, if nothing else.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Laurence

[+Tree]

Just when you think things will settle down, we know have the innocent ones objecting to the appointment of Harper MacLeod for the EBT investigation as the are clearly celticfootballclub minded

[starchief]

Here's where I disagree with the majority of football fans.

If sending Newco Rangers to SFL3 was a punishment for financial mismanagement, then Rangers should be investigated and, if guilty (and I haven't the financial nous to have an opinion), punished.

If Newco Rangers are in SFL3, not as punishment but because they are a new club, not in the SFL so have to start from scratch, then they also have no connection to the financial scandal and shouldn't be punished for a different club.

Saying Newco Rangers are a new club with no rights to Rangers history or a place in the SPL/SFL automatically but should be punished for Rangers history is petty vengeance, not justice.

For the record, I believe Rangers, the club, are simply being managed by a new company. The history, the traditions, basically, the club, are all still there. Being sent to SFL3 was (part of) the punishment.

Those who favour the Sevco approach can't convince me Newco Rangers have no rights to their history but punishment for that history.

[+Tree]

The concept of punishing the new company is in many way a balance against the favourable treatment which the new club is receiving in being allowed to re-enter the SFL without a) having been a club for the prescribed number of years and b) having applied and been considered as part of an open process (i.e. no Highland League club for example could have applied for a vacant position).

In this case, the Newco has been admitted on a non-standard basis and to avoid there being a potential benefit to a club in setting aside debts including most importantly (to the SFA, etc) football debts.

There are a few other points of detail around the above, however I view this point as being relatively straight forward (although Jim Traynor appears to have an issue with the concept of Newco have actually receiving preferential treatment in their application to the SFL).

I have some tendancy towards agreeing with the inconsistency regarding the historical record of the club not being viewed as having transferred also. Setting aside emotion, the Newco have bought the assets of the club including the name and by inference the goodwill which prevails with this. On this basis, it can be reasonably considered that the history is also transferred with the goodwill.

Again, there are some technical arguements which counter this view, however on balance it is probably correct to view the Newco Club as retaining the traditions and history of the old Club through the transfer of the intangible element of the assets.

However we will set the above aside for the shear entertainment value in accusing Newco fans of having no history

[CaleyD]

It's "The Rangers" who want to retain all the benefits of the old regime, but none of the punishment for the immoral/illegal operations which afforded them the position they held.

They can't expect to take all that was "good" (position, power, titles etc) and carry on as if nothing happened. If they want that then they have to accept the bad that comes with it...the punishment and bad press.

They asked for a "Transfer of SFA Membership" as this was the only way they could be guaranteed to remain in the league setup at all....if they had gone for a new membership then the process would have had to be opened up to applications from other clubs. They also needed that transfer to afford them full SFA membership (and the rights that come with that), and not associate membership.

There's even talks now of them trying to get around the 3 year European ban because they are...as far as footballing authorities should be concerned (in their eyes)....the same club due to the transfer of that SFA Membership.

[Oddquine]

It's "The Rangers" who want to retain all the benefits of the old regime, but none of the punishment for the immoral/illegal operations which afforded them the position they held.

They can't expect to take all that was "good" (position, power, titles etc) and carry on as if nothing happened. If they want that then they have to accept the bad that comes with it...the punishment and bad press.

They asked for a "Transfer of SFA Membership" as this was the only way they could be guaranteed to remain in the league setup at all....if they had gone for a new membership then the process would have had to be opened up to applications from other clubs. They also needed that transfer to afford them full SFA membership (and the rights that come with that), and not associate membership.

There's even talks now of them trying to get around the 3 year European ban because they are...as far as footballing authorities should be concerned (in their eyes)....the same club due to the transfer of that SFA Membership.

Exactly, CaleyD......they can't have their cake and eat it! Either they are one or the other and not whichever one suits them at any particular moment in time. Oldco reincarnated, they take the punishments Oldco would have attracted if they hadn't inherited its mantle........and if they are Newco, they can take the goodwill of the fans, Ibrox and the SFA transfer of membership as an undeserved concession and work their way back to the top league....which I hope will not continue to be the SPL as set up currently.

Would have been useful, though if the three sets of Scottish football management employees had had a vestige of a brain among them.because if they had we'd not have been spending since February talking about two clubs taking turns extracting the collective urine of the heid bummers with a foot pump. Calling the Scottish football hierarchy headless chickens would be unfair to chickens without heads.