Matchday Thread ICT -V- Rangers

[Alex MacLeod]

Dougal, I do not profess to having a fondness for Rangers or for that matter any other team in Scotland, other than Elgin City cos my wife says so, but I am beginning to become offended by your constant use of the word ORC in describing them.

To me the name calling is tantamount to bullying.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Alex MacLeod

[RiG]

Can't believe no one has mentioned this but did anyone at the game or watching it on Sky see the sickening scenes I saw as our management team waited for McCoist/Durrant/McDowell and co emerge from the tunnel before the game?

A simple hand shake should have been sufficient but what we got was basically a cringeworthy hugfest which I found quite insulting to the ICT fans who had the misfortune to witness it

"Sickening scenes"? Wow.

[davie]

Gnapka has been here for under 2 months, and we have people writing him off? Do we expect him to gel into a team that quickly? Tudur Jones is just back from (another) injury, has a history of recurrences and yet we want him on from the start? Rosscoe, who has blundered spectacularly on a couple of occassions this year is our saviour in defeence? C'mon people.

Today was poor, and there were times in the first half when I was afraid that we would be overrun. It is credit that we played better in the second half, due in no small measure to Proctor defending impeccably when he replaced Meekings. Greg Tansey was poor today, as was Foran and our midfield was obliterated because of that. I'm not sure that tactically, anything would have survived that first twenty minutes, so you can't blame Butcher for this one. We were toothless up front, and we miss Andrew Shinnie more than I thought we would. Top six? Probably not. Relegated? no chance, so against a Rangers side wounded and cornered we just got what we deserved today.

[Alex MacLeod]

Well said Davie

[Jay_7]

Not posted in a long time because I very rarely attend the stadium these days partly due to financial constraints. This season I have attended Motherwell, Dundee Utd and now the Rangers game. Pish, every last one of them. There's really no other way to put it, either for the sake of being nice because one of the players might look at this thread or because it might upset a poster.

As has been touched on by a couple of folk, the other part of me staying away is the grade A pish being served up to the punters. I paid damn good money last season to be entertained. Yes I may have had a nice discount for having endured our time in the First, but was that nice discount really worth having to feel like it was a chore to attend to watch us be gubbed by some two-bit SPL welterweight? During last season, I regularly pointed out that our defence was no where near good enough for this level. A remark which, whenever I brought it up, was equally as regularly told that I was being too harsh and I expected too much of the team.

Fast forward to now, and we've got rid of two of the players I regularly gave heat. In losing Munro and Duncan we got rid of the two players who most regularly gave possession away. Now I honestly couldn't tell you who our first choice defensive lineup is. All I know is it regularly contains the words Tokely and Proctor and therein layeth a problem for me. Proctor is just plain crap. There's no other way to dress it up. He needs to go and has needed to go since our season in the First where he was even shown up at that level. He is not an SPL player. Tokely is just past it. He might have the occasional flash of defensive brilliance but is that really enough to justify including him in a lineup to face some very good, fast paced attacking lineups that the SPL contains? It worries me and it should worry everyone else that we have not one, but two former international level defenders in charge of this team, and it seems neither one of them can see the problems that I for one can.

I will take the time to say that from what I have seen this season, our wide and attacking positions are adequately covered for this level, same for goalkeeper. However the attack only works well when the centre of midfield play well which leads me nicely to my next point.

What the hell?... Can anyone explain to me what's going on in our centre of midfield? I noticed today that Foran didn't seem to be his usual whinging, "blameless" self but was that just today? He's lost his ability to jump completely or at least time his jumps well enough to win a header. He did display some nice touches and some accurate passing, usually to Tansey who invariably gave the ball away, fell over, or ran (very slowly) in the wrong direction. What exactly does Tansey take to the team? I guess I hope more than anything that a Foran/Tudor-Jones pairing will work. I also guess Butcher is really sweating, hoping that this will work as well.

As for everyone giving it the "that was one of the Old Firm" argument, sorry that's not washing with me. What we just saw was by far the worst Rangers side we have seen for a generation at least tear us apart almost at will. If that doesn't make you pissed then I worry for our support.

As things stand, it's going to be a very long, long time before I ever pay to get back into that stadium again. I imagine I'm not alone in this.

[Sir C the 3rd]

Another terrible performance but whats new. I can't remember the last time i've looked forward to/enjoyed going to a game. There is little to no quality on the field (from either side), the atmosphere is beyond bad and the price to get in is a mind boggling £25 or £27 or whatever it is. Its the same at most SPL clubs, no wonder fans from every team are turning away in their thousands.

The product does not justify the cost and its only going to get worse and worse. The game is dying in Scotland

[PaderbornCaley]

I know some folk have said that we are over reacting but it's not the heavy scoreline or even lack of skill that angers me. It's the lack of motivation. Not just from the Rangers game, but many other games this season.

For the last few years Caley Thistle have always been renound for their fighting team spirit. It's been there from even the Pele years right up until this season. Even under Brewster, the players wanted to play for the club (albeit many of them didn't want to play for Brewster!) We had guys in the team back then who were underperforming but crucially, still had the club at heart. Butcher helped them find their performance again over the last 2 seasons and we returned to the winning ICT formula of togetherness and performance.

This season we have lost both. Performances are poor and pride in the club badge is non existant in some players. In the summer, Butcher will rebuild his team yet again, I really do not know what the future brings for the club. This season, we can say thank feck for Dunfermline (although we're still not out of the woods yet). I worry that next season we will be the team that other clubs use in this quote.

I thought the players would be really fired up for the Rangers game, especially after the really poor performance against the Pars.

[Scarlet Pimple]

I am frightened almost to post anything after what I have read on here today.

Scotty was up at 7a.m. but I would have had to get up at 4.a.m for the start of this one.

But I can't help thinking about what Terry did to this Caley Thistle team at the end of last season and I honestly just have that remaining nagging doubt that this is a serious contributing factor in all of this.

At the time I was shocked at his wholesale clearout , especially when many of the players he culled had sterling records as far as their commitment and loyalty to ICT werte concerned. AND experience to boot.

Regardless of how well Mr Butcher felt that he was qualified to build a team of world beaters, I could not ever see how his hell-for -leather and "de'il tak the hindmost" approach to the obtaining of success for "HIS" team could ever succeed without being accompanied by the huge risk that he was taking in doing this. It was not prudent, at least IMHO, to have practically no experienced players left in reserve .

It did not leave any room for manoever if things went wrong, since he could not ever now call upon a backup of proven players who would have the established team spirit to hold it all together and show the right example to the younger players that Terry felt that he could bring in. Apart from Foran, who can these younger players now turn to for guidance and support and/or inspiration?

The injury situation suffered by the team has helped to bring out all the weakness in his strategy to date and the fact that the players who are on loan must now have one eye on their futures elsewhere only serves to exacerbate the challenge. Why should they play their hearts out, and also possibly risk injury, when their loyalty surely can hardly lie with ICT ?

And, lastly, players on loan to the club are not the answer to anything as far as the future development and stability of the club is concerned. They are too young and inexperienced to be relied upon for one thing --at least not for several years.

And Terry must be relying on the word of Managers who are hundreds of miles away on the matter of their play and their personality traits, which essentially means that he will always be faced with the uncertainty of his bringing them in "sight unseen" as it were. Not exactly a recipe for possible success is it and but it IS a drain on club funds whilst this process is being pursued?

I would love someone to contradict my views with powerful arguments that would convince me that I am wrong but, alas, I just dont see it or get it at the moment.

So, using this strategy is stop-gap at best and a recipe for league places which are likely to always be close to the relegation zone at worst.

[Huisdean]

Dougal,

totally totally irrelevant post, adds nothing to the debate and is just ........ words just fail me.

Utter pish would be the words to sum up that performance today I don't recall seeing a poorer defensive performance ever from an ICT back four

Possibly the worst ever Orc team to set foot in TCS and to be played off the park like the way we did was a total embarrassment

Can't believe no one has mentioned this but did anyone at the game or watching it on Sky see the sickening scenes I saw as our management team waited for McCoist/Durrant/McDowell and co emerge from the tunnel before the game?

A simple hand shake should have been sufficient but what we got was basically a cringeworthy hugfest which I found quite insulting to the ICT fans who had the misfortune to witness it

Rangers were fragile today and all this pandering niceties should have happened within the stand if they even had to happen at all and not in full view of the paying punter

The fact that Tokely never made it off the bench certainly backs up this alleged rift anyone got more info?

[Caley Mad In Berks]

How disappointing was that? Like most ICT folk I had high hopes for this game. For them to be dashed within 20 minutes or so through lack of defending was just too painfull to watch.

Not too many pass marks for our players today. I didn't think Hayes was as bad as many have made out. He had a few good runs and created some chances. Ross, Shinnie, McKay all too lightweight for me. McKay MOM - what was that about? Tade for me was his usual bustling but clueless self.

We were actually a bit better in second half when Proctor, yes Proctor, came on. He had a good 45 mins.

Can anyone explain the sense of only giving Tudor Jones about 5 mins at the end? If he is fit he could have been on at the start, or early first half when our defense was non existant.

Anyway, the weather was nice.

[marks]

Dougal,

totally totally irrelevant post, adds nothing to the debate and is just ........ words just fail me.

Utter pish would be the words to sum up that performance today I don't recall seeing a poorer defensive performance ever from an ICT back four

Possibly the worst ever Orc team to set foot in TCS and to be played off the park like the way we did was a total embarrassment

Can't believe no one has mentioned this but did anyone at the game or watching it on Sky see the sickening scenes I saw as our management team waited for McCoist/Durrant/McDowell and co emerge from the tunnel before the game?

A simple hand shake should have been sufficient but what we got was basically a cringeworthy hugfest which I found quite insulting to the ICT fans who had the misfortune to witness it

Rangers were fragile today and all this pandering niceties should have happened within the stand if they even had to happen at all and not in full view of the paying punter

The fact that Tokely never made it off the bench certainly backs up this alleged rift anyone got more info?

Seems strange you would repost it then, so totally totally irrelevant that you felt the need to make us all read it again?

Sometimes I read these forums and shake my head in disbelief at the bullying culture amongst some members. If someone, such as Dougal, puts forth their views in contradiction to a certain group of posters then the knives are drawn and the attack is on, like a shoal of hungry piranha. If Dougal is a troll then he will be loving you lot, if he is a normal poster with some out there views then a lot of you need to take a good look at yourselves.

[Shorty]

Has anyone ever seen dougal and marks in the same room at the same time?

Edited February 27, 2012 by lyndwinkle

[marks]

Has anyone ever seen dougal and marks in the same room at the same time?

LOL you had to edit that? Ask the mods mate, me and Dougal are not the same person.

[Renegade]

who gave him that clause on his contract? butcher did. if he wanted rid of him he wouldnt of gave him that in the first place.

That was about two years ago! About the same time Duncan was playing every week and Butcher was going on about what a great captain Munro was!

[Huisdean]

Dougal,

totally totally irrelevant post, adds nothing to the debate and is just ........ words just fail me.

Utter pish would be the words to sum up that performance today I don't recall seeing a poorer defensive performance ever from an ICT back four

Possibly the worst ever Orc team to set foot in TCS and to be played off the park like the way we did was a total embarrassment

Can't believe no one has mentioned this but did anyone at the game or watching it on Sky see the sickening scenes I saw as our management team waited for McCoist/Durrant/McDowell and co emerge from the tunnel before the game?

A simple hand shake should have been sufficient but what we got was basically a cringeworthy hugfest which I found quite insulting to the ICT fans who had the misfortune to witness it

Rangers were fragile today and all this pandering niceties should have happened within the stand if they even had to happen at all and not in full view of the paying punter

The fact that Tokely never made it off the bench certainly backs up this alleged rift anyone got more info?

Seems strange you would repost it then, so totally totally irrelevant that you felt the need to make us all read it again?

Sometimes I read these forums and shake my head in disbelief at the bullying culture amongst some members. If someone, such as Dougal, puts forth their views in contradiction to a certain group of posters then the knives are drawn and the attack is on, like a shoal of hungry piranha. If Dougal is a troll then he will be loving you lot, if he is a normal poster with some out there views then a lot of you need to take a good look at yourselves.

TBH, pressed wrong buttons when writing post but seriously what has Butcher and McCoist shaking habds etc got to do with the game yesterday. Everyone, including Dougal and myself are entitled to their opinion and if I need to cooment on a post, I will do so. If anyone wants to comment on my postings, feel free as i won't get upset about it.

[Sir C the 3rd]

Always some sort of major conspiracy going on in the backround for some posters.

[starchief]

Why people are bothering with an obvious troll fails me. You know you can hide posters so you never have to read wind-up merchants ever again.

[+DoofersDad]

Those players and others associated closely with the club who read this site must wonder why they bother - maybe they won't bother in future and who could blame them. Yesterday we were outclassed by a very motivated Rangers team who played very well on the day, but this seems to have spawned a constant stream of completely OOT negativity. You can't judge a team or a manager on a single performance so let's look at a few facts.

• People are concerned we might still be relegated. We are 8 points clear of Dunfermline with 2 games in hand. If Dunfermline accumulate points for the rest of the season at their average for the season so far, they will end the season 2 points behind what we already have. We are not going to be relegated.
  
• People say our current form is poor. Since Rangers defeated us at Ibrox in December only Celtic have beaten us until Rangers beat us again yesterday.
  
• Looking at the longer term picture, we have not lost to another bottom 6 club since we lost 2-1 to Aberdeen on August 20th.
  
• People say the defence is poor. In the 7 games between the 2 defeats to Rangers we conceded ony 4 goals.
  
• We have been particularly hard hit with injuries this season. We must all understand how hard that makes it to field a consistent side and we all know that you need a consistent team to get the best out the players. It has also meant that for much of our season we have been without players we would regard as first cloice.
  
• People say this season's pish is a continuation of last season's pish. Memories are short. Last season we equaled the best ever finish by a Highland side in the history of Scottish football when we finished 7th - 9 points clear of the 8th placed team.
  

Looking at the broader picture this is all pretty impressive. I might not always agree with what Terry does and to be honest some of it baffles me, but at the end of the day you can't argue with the overall record of acheivement.

We are a small club with limited finances and to be in the SPL at all is good, Yes we can hope for a top 6 finish and / or european football but to acheive that will require a number of things to come right at the same time. We will hopefully savour it when it comes but we have no right to expect it. Just staying in the bottom 6 of the SPL is hard enough and to acheive that, the players, the manager, the club need the support of the fans. It is reasonable to express opinions which are critical from time to time but this constant tirade of negativity is not support.

Typical of the nonsense is the comment in a post above which states "During last season, I regularly pointed out that our defence was no where near good enough for this level. A remark which, whenever I brought it up, was equally as regularly told that I was being too harsh and I expected too much of the team." It is astonishing that the poster repeats this nonsense a year later in the knowledge that his assertion was emphatically disproved by the fact that we equalled our best ever finish last season. It really is beyond pathetic.

Just what do some people expect? If you want your local team to play breathtaking, silky, attacking football week in and week out then I suggest you move to Barcelona. As for me, I'm proud of my local club, of what it has acheived and what it still is acheiving in very difficult circumstances. I'm not suggesting everything in the garden is rosy; the lack of goals in recent games is a concern, for instance, but the bigger position is good. Exchange of views and opinions is healthy but please, can we have that debate against a background of realistic expectations for our club, realistic understanding of what we have acheived and realistic understanding of what we are currently acheiving.

This is a supporters' forum. Come on folk, let's get behind the guys and show some real support.

[Jay_7]

*Generic happy clapping drivel

Glad you enjoyed yourself yesterday. Perhaps if someone at the club reads my post they might not bother in future. They certainly didn't bother their arse doing any good against Rangers.

By all means continue the Ostrich approach though.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Jay_7

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Well I thought I'd leave my contribution until most others had - and I really can't believe that only a few have mentioned the tactics which appeared to be employed by Terry and Mo - who in my opinion lost us the game. Meekings was left completely alone and stranded for most of the time. His lack of pace was evident but where was the cover in front of him and behind him. Did nobody else feel that Tansey and Foran were yards in front of the defence who played far too deep and Tansey and Foran were practically in a line most of the time and Davis had a feckin field day. Gillet should have been playing as a sweeper type role, covering Williams and the full backs - which he reverted to in the second half. How may times was Gillet practically trying to tackle in the areas that Tansey and Foran should have been patrolling.

Then playing Tade wide left is tantamount to playing with ten men. He should have been allowed to play in the headless chicken role as the Rangers central defence aint exactly pacey and wee McKay shook them up at times.

Please, please - can somebody tell me exactly where Nick Ross was playing yesterday.

As fer Hayes he now produces something 2 times out of 10. Surely there must have been a case of switching his wings every so often - Rangers simply played him on to his right foot throughout. He was evidently told to stay high up the pitch and hug the touchline but who was supposed to be filling the gaping hole left by that tactic.

As fer McKay up front as a lone striker - well give me a break.

Proctor played well when he came on and undoubtedly the "reaction" will be to start him there again against the Arabs. And what about the reaction save for Esson although I feel that he could have done a lot better for the 3rd and the 4th goals.

And to end I am not one who expects scinthillating football at the TCS or to beat the Old Firm - but I do expect us to know the feckin basics, especially with two intrenational defenders running the show - but we didnt - and that was a really, really bad Rangers X1 out there. And why shouldnt peeple be negative and have a go - that is what football and forums is all about.

[jaggy]

I agree with your entire post. I think most people are disappointed with the performance and not the result, and not for the first time this season the tactics are in question. I hope the extra training TB and MM had them in doing today on thier normal day off were addressing the issues to make for a better performance next week.

Edited February 27, 2012 by jaggy

[Jay_7]

I agree with your entire post. I think most people are disappointed with the performance and not the result, and not for the first time this season the tactics are in question. I hope the extra training TB and MM had them in doing today on thier normal day off were addressing the issues to make for a better performance next week.

How many times is Butcher going to trot out that line? Why do paid professionals need punishing like this in the hope of producing a professional display?

If motivation is an issue, then it's simple, don't pick those who can't be arsed or won't play to their potential. Tansey for me looked the worst offender in this department yesterday. Ultimately the question has to be asked, why are they not motivated?

[jaggy]

Butcher picks the team, the players produce the performance, both are to blame, both need to rectify.

[+DoofersDad]

*Lengthy post containing lots of facts showing how well the club is doing at the moment despite a disappointing performance on Sunday

*Short post containing not a single fact or argument to support the depressing negativity

In his earlier post Jay 7 says "As things stand, it's going to be a very long, long time before I ever pay to get back into that stadium again."

How is the club supposed to get where you want it to be (however unrealistic that may be) if nobody goes along and gives support to the club when it needs it?

[lukemackay]

who gave him that clause on his contract? butcher did. if he wanted rid of him he wouldnt of gave him that in the first place.

That was about two years ago! About the same time Duncan was playing every week and Butcher was going on about what a great captain Munro was!

unless tokely has slept with butchers wife or something then why would they have gone from offering tokely a new contract to despising him?

to think that butcher would get rid of players because of personal agenda or because he didnt like them is ludicrous.