Matchday Thread ICT -V- Rangers

[CaleyD]

Guys like Munro, Duncan, Tokely, Wilson etc etc etc were never going to last forever.

ICT were pretty unique in the manner that they managed to hold a core team together for so long and it was always going to come to an end one day. Partly because these guys get to a stage where they are past their best and partly due to changes in football in general where more and more players seem content to go warm the bench at clubs in return for a bigger wage instead of getting out there and plying their trade.

Whether it was Butcher or some other manager, someone was going to have to guide the club through that transition.

Would I prefer a settled squad with 20 odd players on 2 and 3 year deals with no injury worries and the ability to push the club forward? Hell yeah. Is that a realistic expectation? Not in the slightest.

I'm as cheesed off as the next person at some of the performances we've witnessed this season, I just don't see the argument that some (as yet unidentified) alternative manager and/or group of players that would be affordable and willing to come to ICT would be doing anything different....it's all just pie in the sky speculation.

It might not be pretty, it might not be what we want to see right now, but the inevitable transition that we are going through could have been a whole lot worse than it has been. We might not have been fortunate enough to get a manager capable of seeing us through relegation and a bounce straight back in to the SPL, we could be sitting in Dunfermlines position, languishing at the foot of the table with little hope of improving the situation. We could still be in Div 1 contemplating part-time football just so as we could make ends meet with the finances.

So yeah, it's a bit crap right now, but is Butcher really to blame? Which manager might we have had who would be doing better? Where are all these players that are capable of beating a team made up internationalists? Who's wallet would be funding all this expectation?

Far from thinking everything is rosy, I just think that...under the circumstances...it could be a whole lot worse.

[Huisdean]

Totally agree Caley D. Consistency of selection and playing staff served us well over the years but was always going to change at some point and the nature of player contracts means it's a whole new ball game now. Buthcher was fortunately/unfortunately the manager who had to carry out the surgery required on the team and, while not totally successful, there are reasons behind this.

Where the management team do let themselves down, as alluded to by IHE earlier is their tactics. These are bewildering at times and they have to learn quickly on this as it is this that is costing us points in some games, not always the players on the park.

Finally to all thes eposters who have said we have been playing as poorly as we have ever have, I disagree. When we have had our best team on the aprk, some of the football, although not always the results has been good if not better than last season. The problem has been continuity of selection and the injury to Andrew Shinnie. If the correct signings can be made for next season, we have a good base to build on (ever the optimist but i suppose that is what being a fan is all about)

[DALNEIGHCALEY]

Going round in circles a wee bit here. I'll make 2 points. Firstly, whilst we were defensively poor on Sunday (but well done, Proctor!) I think the rubbishing of our side is generally unfair on the team. Those few of us who actually bothered to stay to the end will have seen how hard the team tried to turn 4-1 into 4-2. They never gave up. Rubbishing our team's effort is also actually rather disrespectful for a Rangers side who played very well indeed. These were players whose future is in the balance through no fault of their own, they were hurt by the defeat to Kilmarnock and they were very much up for it. They were playing for their contracts and did themselves great credit. No shame in losing to that Rangers side.

I don't think there is a particular problem with the defence if we can keep the players we have and keep them fit. Sunday was a one-off. As I said before in this thread, between the 2 Rangers' games we conceded just 4 goals in 7 games including a trip to Parkhead to play a rampant Celtic side. That's top 3 level defending and achieved with a range of personnel. I think that is quite impressive and shows not only have we players of appropriate quality but we have good cover as well. The disappointing thing recently is that we have drawn with teams we should be beating and that's because the goals have dried up with Andrew Shinnie injured. Tade, Sutherland and MacKay have not been scoring and despite bringing Winnall in, Terry doesn't give him an opportunity. Of course, it is goals the fans want to see and if we had converted recent draws into wins then we would be well placed for top six and very few would be complaining.

So can we please stop moaning about the defence and start moaning about the strikers instead

Going round in circles a wee bit here. I'll make 2 points. Firstly, whilst we were defensively poor on Sunday (but well done, Proctor!) I think the rubbishing of our side is generally unfair on the team. Those few of us who actually bothered to stay to the end will have seen how hard the team tried to turn 4-1 into 4-2. They never gave up. Rubbishing our team's effort is also actually rather disrespectful for a Rangers side who played very well indeed. These were players whose future is in the balance through no fault of their own, they were hurt by the defeat to Kilmarnock and they were very much up for it. They were playing for their contracts and did themselves great credit. No shame in losing to that Rangers side.

I don't think there is a particular problem with the defence if we can keep the players we have and keep them fit. Sunday was a one-off. As I said before in this thread, between the 2 Rangers' games we conceded just 4 goals in 7 games including a trip to Parkhead to play a rampant Celtic side. That's top 3 level defending and achieved with a range of personnel. I think that is quite impressive and shows not only have we players of appropriate quality but we have good cover as well. The disappointing thing recently is that we have drawn with teams we should be beating and that's because the goals have dried up with Andrew Shinnie injured. Tade, Sutherland and MacKay have not been scoring and despite bringing Winnall in, Terry doesn't give him an opportunity. Of course, it is goals the fans want to see and if we had converted recent draws into wins then we would be well placed for top six and very few would be complaining.

So can we please stop moaning about the defence and start moaning about the strikers instead

"no shame in losing to that rangers side " !!! You must be on the wind up , that's got to be the worst rangers side in living memory and to be thumped 4 - 1 at home to that is an absolute disgrace .

[caley100]

Agree with above posts about Tansey - he was/has been poor, must be a butcher favorite because he always seems to get a start, He would struggle to get a start at county like one of our previous midfielders.

We got caught sleeping vs Rangers, dont know what the ICT players expected but by feck we were pyshed on, and i hope they are hurting.

Anyway, Tud Jones has to start vs the Arabs, so must Rossco, Gillet is best at LB and thats where we need him, RB - i would give Proc a chance he seems to look better at his preferred position.

Tansey needs rest - a long rest.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Agree with above posts about Tansey - he was/has been poor, must be a butcher favorite because he always seems to get a start, He would struggle to get a start at county like one of our previous midfielders.

We got caught sleeping vs Rangers, dont know what the ICT players expected but by feck we were pyshed on, and i hope they are hurting.

Anyway, Tud Jones has to start vs the Arabs, so must Rossco, Gillet is best at LB and thats where we need him, RB - i would give Proc a chance he seems to look better at his preferred position.

Tansey needs rest - a long rest.

I need to see you as soon as possible - you are feckin cracking up - could be Butcherphenia.

[Jay_7]

RB - i would give Proc a chance he seems to look better at his preferred position.

Good post up til this. Then I was like:

[ICTPaisley]

Haha I think we all were.

[bishbashbosh]

Agree with above posts about Tansey - he was/has been poor, must be a butcher favorite because he always seems to get a start, He would struggle to get a start at county like one of our previous midfielders.

We got caught sleeping vs Rangers, dont know what the ICT players expected but by feck we were pyshed on, and i hope they are hurting.

Anyway, Tud Jones has to start vs the Arabs, so must Rossco, Gillet is best at LB and thats where we need him, RB - i would give Proc a chance he seems to look better at his preferred position.

Tansey needs rest - a long rest.

proc up against mackay-steven.

he would have to watch the video of "that" trick he performed against sjohnstone. seen it a hundred times and still dont know what he did.

we could all chip in and buy proctor 50 match tickets. he would need tham all to get back into tannadice

[Huisdean]

Agree with above posts about Tansey - he was/has been poor, must be a butcher favorite because he always seems to get a start, He would struggle to get a start at county like one of our previous midfielders.

We got caught sleeping vs Rangers, dont know what the ICT players expected but by feck we were pyshed on, and i hope they are hurting.

Anyway, Tud Jones has to start vs the Arabs, so must Rossco, Gillet is best at LB and thats where we need him, RB - i would give Proc a chance he seems to look better at his preferred position.

Tansey needs rest - a long rest.

proc up against mackay-steven.

he would have to watch the video of "that" trick he performed against sjohnstone. seen it a hundred times and still dont know what he did.

we could all chip in and buy proctor 50 match tickets. he would need tham all to get back into tannadice

Why single out Proctor for that, would any of our other defenders do any better/worse than Proctor if up gainst that. Another example of knocking a player for no good reason which is prevalent on this site. No issues with making comments on Proctor after the game if he has a bad game but come on, before it.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

My "fear" is that Terry will slot in Proc as a central defender - he is more likely to make a "big" mistake in that zone and most would agree that he has never had the confidence, technique, build or natural ability to play in the role. I have never had any such "fear" when he is played elsewhere. I do however accept that when he makes an error or a slip it is magnified in the perspective of some, perhaps most fans.

[PaderbornCaley]

I thought Williams played well in this game! Roll on the Dundee Utd game lol jk he's been dropped.

Edited March 6, 2012 by CapitalCaley