Matchday Thread Matchday Thread: Dundee Utd -V- ICT

[Alex MacLeod]

Agree with a lot of that Chris but I disagree on your assessment of Meekings. I thought he stapped his authority on M-S and stopped him doing what he's good at.

[Jay_7]

Just waiting on the happy clappers to tell us what positives we can take from this performance...

More absolute pish. Tokely and Tansey should never have started. The rest of my post writes itself.

[DJS]

Oh dear, that was pretty poor.

I'm starting to anticipate another big clear out this May.

[Caley Mad In Berks]

Well, I wasn't expecting much after the debacle against Rangers, and 'not much' is what I got. I actually missed the first couple of minutes watching in the pub and didn't realise we only had 9 men on the field for quite a while. At least only 9 who touched the ball in the first half. Were McKay and Ross really there? Not much better in second half. Poor defending for the second two goals. I'm struggling to give pass marks to anyone tonight, except maybe Esson.

Forget top 6. We're nowhere near good enough. I'll settle for 11th and hope for 10th at best.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

Can anyone actually tell me what role has been given to Nicky Ross in the last two games ?

[Yngwie]

Spectator.

[hislopsoffsideagain]

I watched this game on SkyPlus since I was out this evening. I wish I had just gone to bed.

I suppose Butcher will see it as an improvement. After all, we gave Rangers a three goal start last week; tonight we only gave our opponents a two goal start before we bothered to turn up.

This match proves once and for all that our management team have no concept of tactics, nor a gameplan. For the umpteenth time this season we were absolutely annihilated in midfield. All our opponents know that, at the first sign of pressure, our defensive players will pump high balls towards McKay, who can't possibly win any of them. It's not coincidence that we have struggled since we lost Davis, who was always willing to take the ball into feet even with an opposing player shadowing him. Tansey is supposed to do that job, but he's not up to it - in fact he also struggles with passing, tackling and, looking at the second goal, with marking as well.

As for the idea to start with Sutherland and Tade providing width, well the mind boggles. Sure, it's not a bad idea if you push them up against the full backs and play high balls at them, but we don't do that for some reason. Both wanted to drive inside, leaving space for an overlapping full-back...except our full-backs don't go forward. So we have no width, and therefore keep punting high balls at McKay. In the final third, there is zero finesse or flair. By God, we miss Andy Shinnie.

Fair play to Meekings, who I thought dealt with Mackay-Steven relatively well. The big problem - AGAIN - was in the centre. I think Golobart lacked match sharpness. As for Tokely...I think it's fair to say that he will be put out to pasture this summer. He just isn't up to it anymore at this level.

What particularly struck me tonight was the number of moronic free kicks we keep giving away. Other teams manage to make their little nudges and shirt tugs subtle, so why can't we? If an opposing player is stuck in the corner, unsure what to do with the ball, he can be assured that one of our guys will hurtle into him and gift him a free kick. Wise up, for goodness sake.

So, in conclusion, we are in a complete and utter mess. This, for me, is the worst state we've been in since the last few months of Brew's second spell. We've definitely taken a step back this season - let's hope it only remains one step back, and things don't get worse. But I'm dreading Saturday. Surely, surely, Jones and Winnall can't be any worse than the mob we currently have on the pitch?

[gingerjaggy]

Back from the game and i have to say we were beaten by a football team. I dont know what has been told to the players but this long ball crap is so ineffective when we have no players with abit of height upfront. I though tade and mackay looked to be putting effort in and they did try but any service they got was woeful. Dundee United looked dangerous and had a cutting edge with Russell and Daly looking dangerous all game. We did have a spell where if we had grabbed a goal then we may have got a point but Russell's goal was cracking and deserved to kill any game. Our defending for all the goals was pretty terrible with all of them avoidable. Top six was a possibility but in this last month we havent performed and any notion of top six is gone. We need to keep going and pick up as many points as we can maybe overtake a few but make sure we stay clear of the bottom two and try again next season. What is evident is that we are scary bad when we have no hayes he may not have played great in the last few matches but he still is our main creator and tonight we could have played all night and still not scored so disapointing but we need to now concentrate on killie.

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

One word again - Narcissist.

Butcher is probably the most likeable, charming, charismatic and consuming manager that has ever graced the Highland football scene. He is a media darling and a figurehead for ICT. He puts us on the map across Britain. He can certainly talk the talk. But he cant walk the walk. He is sadly lacking in the game of man management, is bereft in the skill of decision making and tactically is poor. His reaction is to chop and change and always picks out a scapegoat or lays the whole blame on the team. I suspect that he will change it again and he may take back in Williams, Tudor Jones, Winnal and even Gnapka - and we get a result and he says "I told you so". We have won quite a few games this season becos of individual displays.

The best role for Butcher would be as a Director of Football but we cant afford that position any more - plus the fact that his personality suits the needs of Mr sutherland & Co. But he will lead us to survival and we may even pick up after the split - and he will be there next season. It will also be heralded that we have had to endure a nightmare season where injuries to key players have had a real influence but that does not detract from the woeful emploment of tactics at times. Are you trying to tell me that Tade, Ross, Sutherland and McKay are happy to play in the roles that they have been given - are they feck but they will not speak out as they know what the reprisal will be. And how do you think that Williams and Shinnie are feeling this evening - sitting on the bench - watching a half fit loanee and a struggling legend taking their place.

[Yngwie]

Anyone like to hazard a guess what Butcher has promised to Chick Young he's going to rant about??

I would guess that he's not happy with the proposed U20 league.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17267221

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

"But that's the way it's been going this season, we get into good positions and fail to hit the target.

"We got so far but that extra little bit is what puts United in the top six and leaves us where we are.

"There's a lot of soul-searching to do because, inside that dressing room, there's a team there. In games we've played very well and not got the rewards.

"What does that come down to? I don't think it's ability. It's down to other factors. And we haven't been strong enough in that department."

My Gawd - is he referring to tactics and team selection ??

[ymip]

Tonight was brutal. Anyone thinking we're safe in 10th place is deluded. Two wins for the Pars and we're right back in the mire. Tonight was my tenth league game this season and I've yet to see a victory. We were promised a new style of football after the night of the long knives in the Summer but tonight was as poor a performance as I can ever remember. We are totally devoid of creativity, heart or any apparent desire to perform. I haven't heard Terry's latest rant but can imagine it will be along the lines of the last few. I'm completely unimpressed with what's been served up this season and I'm really struggling to see where we're heading with the playing staff. We seem to be a club that's lost it's soul and have opted to assemble an assortment of journeyman on short term contracts or loanees who have no real allegiance to the club or the city. Seriously disillusioned......

[tm4tj]

As I alluded to on another thread, too many passengers and those passengers playing poorly. Tansey, Ross, Foran, Sutherland, Tade and possibly McKay, although playing him as a lone striker we will never know what he is capable of. Winnall must be pissed off sitting around unable to get a game watching that tripe. We just smack of underachievers and there seems to be no end to our inability to play football.

If County come up next season which looks a distinct possibility, then we will be trailing in their wake as they will have teamwork and passion for the game while we faff around with seconds from car boot sales.

There is growing unrest in the camp, it's up to Butcher to sort it before it's too late. Going to the games is getting depressing, it's supposed to be enjoyable, not anymore, the fun has gone and we are left staring at defeat every time we enter the park. Sorry, not good enough.

[CaleyAlly]

just wanted to say thanks to the two ladies who gave me and my dad tickets

i think we need to change system and stop playing high balls to mckay as he is not a target man

also give winnall a chance he came for first team football and he should get a chance

[PaderbornCaley]

Listened to the radio commentary. Consensus was that the score flattered Utd and that ICT payed pretty well on the whole.

What radio station was that?! We were awful. Again. Just like the Rangers game last week and the Dunfermline game the week before. We played OK at Parkhead the week before that but terrible against Celtic in the cup the previous week. All in all, our current form is terrible. Relegation form and it it weren't for Dunfermline we would be fecked. Simple. IF we don't go down this season, then I worry for next season.

[+Gringo]

That was the BBC Radio commentary, I heard it too I wondered if they were taking about the same game I just watched. The first two goals were entirely of our doing (or undoing if you like). A poor clearance from Ryan started the move. Yes there was a good shout for handball before Rankin hit that screamer but surely playing to the whistle should be the norm' for a professional footballer and not standing around with your hands in the air appealing. The second was a result of Foran giving away a needless free-kick (and booking) and being unable to defend it. I never saw the third goal but I understand there were two defenders brushed aside in the build up.

[lizi]

Special top marks to the young supporters who travelled to this game - they sang throughout the 90 minutes and did ICT proud. They never went quiet the whole time, which is more than can be said for lots of supporters of the "bigger" teams when losing. Well done boys - you know who you all are.

At the final whistle, only Roman Golabart and Josh Meekings acknowledged the travelling support, so black marks to the rest of the team who left the field without a backward glance or acknowledgement of their fans (probably expecting a tongue-lashing for the next hour or so from TB and MM).

Edited March 6, 2012 by lizi

[Yngwie]

During the first half when things were pretty bad on the pitch, I counted 83 fans in the upper tier, but couldn't see lower tier which is where the singers were.

So in total I'd guess we had 100 fans at this one, which is more than I would have expected for a Monday night televised game that we were certain to lose. It probably looked like fewer fans because we were thinly spread out across the whole away stand.

Within a minute after kick off when 3 of us were still standing eating our pies (which were stuck to the foil and falling apart btw) we got the obligatory visit from a steward. Then a while later a lady standing in the back row of the stand, with no other fans within at least 10 feet of her, was quoted the health and safety nonsense but stood her ground, literally, for the rest of the game.

[Row S]

Saved myself all the anguish of watching this match and went to my Monday night badminton instead. If they carry on playing like this then I shall be arranging other sporting activities to coincide with ICT fixtures. :irritated:

[Huisdean]

Can anyone actually tell me what role has been given to Nicky Ross in the last two games ?

Invisible Man??

[Scotty]

Just watched the highlights as I was processing them for the official site .... I guess its easier to watch 5 minutes of condensed crap than 90 minutes of complete mince ...

1st goal - Blame: Foran (with an assist to Gillet and Esson).

Gillet opts to play it back to Esson rather than go forward, Esson has a woeful kickout, and Foran's half-hearted up and under followed up by a non-challenge leaves Rankin clear. He took it well though.

2nd goal - Blame: Tansey/Esson.

Daly wins a header against Tokely from a long Flood free kick into the box and flicks it into the path of Robertson. Tansey was covering Robertson but he was miles away and although he seemed to not get a clean touch to it, Esson was rooted to the spot as it slowly crept in ... looks like he thought it was going wide.

3rd goal - Blame: Johnny Russell !!! - nice bit of skill turning 4 men inside out inside the box and shooting past Esson. A couple of half hearted attempts at tackles, but most likely those players thought a tackle = penalty and possibly a booking or even a red card if it was Golobart or Meekings.

As disappointing as it is, Dundee Utd are one of the form sides right now and if I am honest, I hoped for something from this game but didnt expect it.

The more worrying thing is the manner of defeat ... 11 goals shipped in the last 5 games, 7 in the last two, and only two scored in 5 games.

The defence is a nightmare. Good individuals perhaps, but for a mixture of reasons none of them have played together long enough to form a real partnership or understanding. I can understand the need to chop and change when injuries happen, you have no choice, but we have had 28 league games this season and probably almost as many defensive combinations .... in fact I am sure I heard TB comment something along those lines on the BBC a few weeks back.

In midfield we have some skill, experience and guile with Hayes, Foran etc (when he can be bothered) but we are lacking a "general". Based on (early) performances, I had hoped that Cox would fill that role, or maybe even Tansey, but it is clear we dont have anyone to do it ... Will a fully fit Tudur-Jones be able to step up to that role ? If so, he could be important in the run-in.

Up front, it seems that Tade works hard, and the highlights show a couple of good efforts from him to setup McKay but neither of them are comparable to Adam Rooney or other prolific scorers we have had over the years. I have to wonder why Winnall doesnt get a game if the others are misfiring?

Will take the word of those watching a full 90 minutes each week when it comes to overall tactics as its impossible to form an proper opinion based on radio commentary or 5 minutes of video highlights .... but we need to do something to turn this trend around .....

Not calling for TB's head, I still believe in him, but we do need more tactics and less soundbites as the season winds down .... How ignominious would it be next season if County came up and at the end of 12/13 WE were the team relegated as we hadnt sorted out our tactics !!!! We have only finished below County once in our history and have never been in a league below them ever .... the manager that achieves this dubious milestone will not fare well !

[starchief]

In midfield we have some skill, experience and guile with Hayes, Foran etc (when he can be bothered) but we are lacking a "general". Based on (early) performances, I had hoped that Cox would fill that role, or maybe even Tansey, but it is clear we dont have anyone to do it

Thing is, I think Tansey is actually far more suited to a more attacking midfield role. He's been pushed back as, well, who else can do it, with Jones, Proctor and Cox all injured for large parts of the season (I know Cox also has other reasons for not being there lately). I actually think Tansey, with Jones to back him up, could be a hugely important player but more in the final third, rather than in front of the defence.

[PaderbornCaley]

Changing the defence again didn't help. I think Williams shouldn't have been dropped. Tokely was clearly not match fit and shirley that would have been noticed in training. Starting him was a mistake.

Shane Sutherland is not a right winger. Billy McKay - I like him. But playing him up front with the defence punting forward to him is not the best use of his skill. He's too small for that type of play. The tactics / formations were terrible yesterday.

[starchief]

It wasn't noticed and, please......don't call me Shirley.

(I so hope that isn't meaningless to the younger 'uns)

[12th Man]

Can anyone actually tell me what role has been given to Nicky Ross in the last two games ?

ham and pickle