Butcher OUT?

[Sorted]

Have never supported a campaign for any manager to be beheaded. Think it's as degrading now as it was in the past.

What I will say is that the only people who **** me off more than those who constantly talk things down are the 'happy clappies' who (like the Rangers fans who think that shouting 'We Are The People' will somehow save their club) refuse or are unable to consider that all is not well and that TB and Co are beyond criticism. TM4TJ has got it right for me.

Probably repeating myself but...............TB is spending a significant wage on a keeper who won't play and wasn't needed. His choice. Why? TB chose to let Grant Munro go despite the fact that left sided centre backs with his experience (and on his wages) are impossible to find. He has also failed to replace him. Why? (we still haven't had an answer!) TB has Gary MacKay Steven at our club and didn't see a player. This is astounding. Instead he has spent our money on poorer players from the lower reaches of the English (non) leagues. Why?

Just some of the points I think are legitimate questions to be asked. The don't have to be answered but will always be legitimate.

And Gringo, OTJ will never be fit. Period. That's why he is up here.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Sorted

[Jay_7]

Remember when Munro went, Hogg came in. It's a matter of luck who gets the career-threatening injury. There's no guarantee that if Munro had stayed and no Hogg, then Grant would be out with a long-term injury. I can't see any other big misses (besides Rooney, who wouldn't have stayed) from last year (given that Duncan can't get a game for RC).

This for me is a problem. The general regard that folk seem to have that Hogg is a "big miss". Like he's some sort of key player? Hogg is absolutely gash, do you think Hibs just let him go for no reason?

[+bughtmaster]

Tinted glasses !!!!!!.................. get lost!

Time to take off the dark glasses more like!

The potental in the squad of players we have is way beyond that of many other teams in the SPL. We ;have an excellent manager, not perfect but then who is? so why cant you see it ? are your glasses too dark ? or is it your head that is burried in the sand ?

Stop slagging off and look a bit closer, there is a winning team there in all senses of the word.!

Trouble is, some of you expect far too much and demand it immediately, have a bit more patience or go and join the opposition. ( maybe you already are the opposition??? )

[Jay_7]

Tinted glasses !!!!!!.................. get lost!

Time to take off the dark glasses more like!

The potental in the squad of players we have is way beyond that of many other teams in the SPL. We ;have an excellent manager, not perfect but then who is? so why cant you see it ? are your glasses too dark ? or is it your head that is burried in the sand ?

Stop slagging off and look a bit closer, there is a winning team there in all senses of the word.!

Trouble is, some of you expect far too much and demand it immediately, have a bit more patience or go and join the opposition. ( maybe you already are the opposition??? )

[KingBeastie]

It's the defence that annoys me the most. We just cannot seem to get it right no matter who plays. Then we change it all again a week later.

I don't know what to say I really don't.

[Caley Mad In Berks]

It's the defence that annoys me the most. We just cannot seem to get it right no matter who plays. Then we change it all again a week later.

I don't know what to say I really don't.

Couldn't agree more. Even allowing for the long term injuries to Hogg and OTJ, Butcher does not seem to have any idea what his best defence is. Every week he tries a different permutation!

[Alex MacLeod]

Well, that is do-able if we have a complete overhaul of the squad.

It seems we are looking at players in England from League 1 and below whereas other teams look for players from Championship or around Europe, Sandaza came from Brighton so is it worth Butcher looking for Championship level players, even for the ones on loan?

Lee Cox came from a championship club. Josh Meekings came from a championship club. Doran, Winnall and OTJ all came from Premiership clubs. A. Shinnie came from an SPL club. The English leagues are of a far higher standard to ours and teams from league 2 could easily hold there own against most of the SPL teams.

That said everyone is missing the one point that is holding this club back from building success. Income. We cant give players longer term deals. We cant give players security. We cant give players the sort of wage they'd get at many other clubs so how do we attract all those championship players we should be looking at?

[TopSix]

how do we attract all those championship players we should be looking at?

Sorry for going off-topic here, but herein lies the issue. Alex also mentioned the financial situation which doesn't help - he is completely correct on that.

I think we should be focusing heavily on youth development, having a structure in place which sees the club work with other football clubs in the area to foster and develop an excellent youth strategy. To what extent does the club harness the Highland Youth Academy? While admirable, building up a fan base may be more about putting back in to the community and having involvement than special ticket deals.

Any money the club can afford should, IMHO, be put toward youth development. Links with local secondary schools needs also be be encouraged and harnessed to work with talented youngsters. I think the management could do more to this end to assist.

I find people having a pop at Nick Ross a wee bit baffling. The lad is still a teenager - yet playing in the top flight?! There is far too much emphasis in Scotland on having big, physically strong footballers - lacking in technique and a decent first touch. Nick Ross isn't a lumbering behemoth but has lots of potential.

I think Terry Butcher cares immensely about the game and the club. For those of you calling for him to go - I'll agree to disagree with you. I would like to see more links across schools, clubs and the wider community though. The players help out in French classes - how about them taking after-school training sessions too?

[TopSix]

And one other thing, can we ban GIFs? Jay_7 - you disappoint me!

[KingBeastie]

Regarding the defensive situation I mentioned, I often think the manager has been right to drop a few of the players as they have deserved it but then this means a new back 4, it's a catch 22 I feel and I certainly have no idea on how to solve it and I don't really know what else TB can do.

[KingBeastie]

Let's just get the points on the board to ensure our SPL safety and then get this annus horribilis of a season over and done with!

[Jay_7]

And one other thing, can we ban GIFs? Jay_7 - you disappoint me!

GIFs can convey 1000 emotions.

[Morgan Spice]

Am I the only one who thinks the majority of these "higher quality" Championship and Premiership players have either been rubbish or have a rubbish attitude in terms of what this club needs? Hayes, Rooney and Cox isn't a great return from the number of players we have taken from down that way. Yes Davis was good but he chose to leave at Christmas so his loyalties weren't at ICT. And quite rightly he chose to do what his club preferred him to do and what benefits his chances at his club. But it doesnt benefit us and it's a problem.

[AJS]

Butcher cannot solely be blamed for the lack of form this season. Injuries have been unbelievable, we have fallen into a bit of a slump since January but this is probably the first time weve looked really poor in the season, there have been countless games this season where we lost but were incredibly unfortunate.

Butcher dosent know his best defence because all season he has never had the option of pick and choosing, it is only now that players are beginning to return from injuries but if you look over the course of the season he's never had the option of really picking a truely strong team and we are not a team that can afford to have depth in quality. But it cant be denied that given he was an international defender along with Malpas that the players should be performing better.

Most of his signings have all made an impact at some point but i agree that maybe they havent quite shown as good a level of commitment that we would maybe expect and for that Butcher has to take some responsibility but the quality of players i think has been good, Golobart, Shinnie, Tade, Tansey and Meekings at times have all shown that they are very capable players. OTJ would have been a key player had he stayed fit, i have no doubts about that. Some players however havent but we cant pick and choose who we sign we have a budget to stick too. Those who havent will get punted and will be replaced, thats the way buisness will be conducted.

Theres no point in asking from him to go cause even if we did he wont be sacked.....certainly unless things begin to go horribly wrong. I think the best thing to do is just draw a line under the season, Im confident we wont be relegated and the sooner we get our status secured the sooner we can play for who stays and who goes. This season has never really kicked off for a variety of reasons. All we can do is free up some space within the squad and retain what bits of quality we have within it. All i would hope is that we dont pick up injuries like we have this year and maybe that Terry is a bit more careful in the market and maybe aims to bring in one or two more experienced heads.

[SMEE]

What i will say is....I dont think we will progress under Butcher. I cant help but draw comparrisons with our time under brewster's leadership, and that was as dire as any football i have ever seen served up by an Inverness team. I have yet to see anything to suggest that things might improve

Edited March 6, 2012 by SMEE

[IMMORTAL HOWDEN ENDER]

I could give several examples but lets just limit it to Tansey, Tade and Sutherland

Tansey simply is not a defensive holding midfielder. He has been put in that role becos of the injury and subsequent departure of Cox and the decision to play Foran in central midfield. Tansey's apparent qualities is that he looks adept at oving in to space to receive passes, he has good first control, he does tend to look at options available to him but playing deep he is either under instruction to hoof rather than try summat fancy or he simply gets pressurised and goes in to a bit of panic mode. The holding role is summat that Duncan did to perfection when he had a ball player beside him. He stuck to that position, had the experience to cover and shadow front runners and always tended to seek the simple pass. He often fecked things up when he tried to do summat a little bit too fancy. Cox was of similar ilk.

Tade is an enigma. His positives and negatives is that he is totally unpredictable. The opposition cant second guess him, his colleagues never know exactly what is going to happen next and Tade is a headless chicken who probably doesnt know exactly what he is going to do next. But allow him to play as a headless chicken, running manically around the final third of the pitch, hassling and harrying and using his pace on the last line of defence. Sure he will probably feck up 70-80 % of the time but he pays dividends with the other 20-30 %. Sticking him out wide and encouraging him to drop back and defend is a total waste of a player. He hasnt got the know how to play in a tactical role. Recently I have seen him tried as a switching role from wide, central and defence minded - it will never work.

To me Sutherland could be the "foil" for Tade and McKay. To me he comes across as more of a traditional centre forward - a target man. Sure his ball control is dodgy and his distribution poor but he has real upper body strength and is adept at holding the ball up and holding off defenders. If he could learn that skill and the added skill of laying the ball off to attacking midfielders then he may progress. Playing him deep or wide or in a switch role simply will not work.

[+DoofersDad]

I don't think anybody is saying it is all wonderful or anything like. We could and should be doing better than we are and there are genuine concerns about some of the selections and tactics, but this season has been about rebuilding and it has been desparately difficult to do that with the amount of lengthy injuries we've had. So, we've had a couple of disappointing results in the last 2 games against teams who are 2nd and 4th. But before that we conceded just 2 goals in 5 games and we have not been beaten by a bottom 6 side since August 20th. It's far too early to call for a change of manager. If we only get another couple of points before the split I'll maybe agree you've got a point. If we get relegated I'll maybe agree with you. It ain't going to happen, though. More chance of us being safe before the split than going down. This is a season to write off and hope, indeed, expect better next season.

[Gabby]

I am also in the Butcher must NOT go camp, don't be surprised lol.

I reckon he needs to sort out the defence and also look for a goalscoring Striker who will guarentee us a goal nearly every game, someone like Fran Sandaza at Saints or Daly at Dundee United.

As i have said before, our team this year is the exact same as last seasons St Johnstone team, they were leaking far to many goals and couldn't score, look at them this season, their exactly the opposite, so if they can find good defenders and strikers then surely so can we and don't give me this, but we don't have money because i will respond by saying "neither did St Johnstone.

It's not just that though, is it? On top of needing defenders and forwards, we also need midfielders who can dictate a game. Where was our midfield against Dundee Utd?

It's a whole damn team we need, not just a few players.

In defending our midfield they spent the entire game watching the ball sail over there heads, the only opportunity they had to touch the ball was by tackling opponents. ESPN interviewed TB about two thirds through the first half and I was concerned that he was very happy with the way we were playing. I'm not entirely sure what he was watching.

[Scarlet Pimple]

Manfer has a lot of good pointed arrows in his quiver.

Right now I am quivering that this team does not have a lot of points nor arrows pointing in the right direction.

Based o his contract Terry has to stay for another year or his departure and settlement will bring ICT to their knees financially. Unless we get relegated and he resigns voluntarily, of course.

Looking at the highlights, admittedly only a tiny slice of the game, one cannot but be impressed with the comparison between the two teams. Dundeed Utd looked confident, determined, had accurate and effective passing, seemingly with a purpose, and knew where the goal was.

Meanwhile, ICT appeared to be doing a bit of standing around in admiration --or desperation. or a little bit of befuddlement.

Where was Tade's vaunted power and aggression? With his size and mobility he should have been able to carve through that defence and at the very least terrify them to death consistently but he looked like a moth on a mothball awaiting his orange juice to be brought to him on a platter. Leisurely like. Nice strike on goal I suppose but never likely to trouble the goalie so why did he not run into the goalmouth instead...?

Don't you just get the impression that each player seems to be waiting for another to win the game?

I would rather see younger , very energetic and aggressive players trying hard than the more experienced players just flitting around doing what they feel is all that they need to do to get by. So, in the absence of any constructive suggestion in present circumstances I just have to agree with the post that says Terry should concentrate on the local boys and the Highland Academy etc.

[DundeeICT]

Blah blah blah sack the manager and all that. Feck off!

As I said on another thread I think people forget what size of club we are, how much money we have and what support we get. Who would you bring in?? Where would you suggest the money comes from to pay the management off? Yeah we have had a generally poor season, but the injury list has been horrendous and we have hardly(if at all) put the same starting 11 out for 2 consecutive games?

I would suggest people calm down, realise Butcher is going nowhere and support the club in staying in the SPL. If you think about the drastic changes made in the summer there was no way we could have expected instant success. Let's achieve safety. Regroup in the summer and build on what we have.

For the negative posters - get a grip ,i may not be happy with results but I don't jump in and say sack someone - it's not the answer. The future is good for the club.

[Huisdean]

A lot of good posts on this and a lot of negative, and frankly predictable posts on this subject. On the assumption that we all want the club to grow and improve, although I am not so sure, all the posters actually want this, what good at the moment would replacing the management team at this time do. The constant changing of managers does no club any good and as someone pointed out, not only would we have to pay off the current management team, but then pay the new manager to get his own staff in which we simply cannot afford.

Sure the management team have made mistakes in both signings and tactics, and worryingly for me at the moment, cannot seem to get the tactics sorted, butlet's be realistic about our financial situation and are we really any worse that the teams immediately around about us, Hibs, St. Mirren, Kilmarnock, Aberdeen, I don't think so.

This may be seen by some who then class me as a "happy clapper" but I would rather be classed as one of those than be one of the depressed negative posters who preach doom and gloom on here season after season.

[tm4tj]

I'm not sure that anyone is seriously calling for a change of manager, maybe Sonam. What is being questioned is do we believe he is going about his job in the best manner possible within the constraints. I think that is the question that is dividing the fans here. I believe he has been fantastic for this club in the last couple of years, what I do see as an issue is whether he and Mo can look outside the box and change the way we go about our business on the park. There does seem to be loyalty issues, despite some players appearing to do very little on the park, they still get on the team sheet.

I know there is a fine line between getting it right and making a pigs ear of it, but surely he has had plenty of time to sort out some of these issues. They have not all become poor players overnight, therefore if they are following his instructions, then are the instructions good enough, and are his choices of player good enough.

I am fed up hearing about Munro/Duncan being in the past, but hey, it was Mr Butcher that made that decision and that is a part of the jigsaw that has us in this predicament, alongside injuries, suspensions and simple bad luck.

It won't take a lot for folk to stop turning up on a saturday, and the VFM factor is pretty low at the moment, I even heard one fan say he was going shopping with his missus on Saturday instead of the Killie game...............now that is taking it too far, but you get the drift.

I'm sure we are all puuling the same way, just some are pulling harder than others.

[Joe DiMaggio]

We are doing ok just now. We won't get relegated so Butcher can be given time to build for next season and take it from there.

Some people have unrealstic expectations. I have read people saying on here relegation again would ruin us etc and others say that we won't get relegated again etc.

The simple truth though is that we need to build as well as we can to stay in the league and possibly push for top 6 but also look at the possibility of what happens when we do go down. Becasue we will get relegated again in the near future. By near future I mean the next decade, or earlier/later give or take, but relegation I would say is an inevitability again in the current league set up.

[Alex MacLeod]

Personally I think if we go down under the current climate we will be back to part time football in Inverness. I also think some people are not looking at a whole picture when they single out some players and question why they get a start. The ones I would bring to attention here are the U-21 Scottish players that get the nod when some think they shouldn't. Doesnt the club get a fee from the SFA each time one of those players are used?

Tactics are something that baffles me at times. Too many players played in wrong positions. I think the first thing that needs to happen is to get our best team playing together week in week out. Get them gelling with each other and the rest should fall into place. Then we may win games we're expected to lose and lose those we're expected to win. At least we'll see we are playing as a team.

And finally, to put things in perspective, our operating budget for a full season is around £3.5 million. Rangers need to cut £4.7 of spending between now and seasons end to avoid liquidation.

[lukemackay]

this seasons all about staying up now it looks like weve achieved that.

if we stay injury free for the rest of the season that will definatly happen.

for us its all about next season preparing right getting the right players in. get a good pre season and if lucks on our side suirely our injuries wont be so bad next season.

im 100% certain that if hogg, cox, doran, owain, and a.shinnie had stayed fit wed be sitting pretty pushing top 6 its all about keeping them fit next season.

butcher could never foresee the injuries we would be plaqued by this season butcher cant be blamed for everything.

maybe recently his tactics havnt been to everyones taste but at the end of the day we have to look at what hes done for us overall in the last 2-3 years not the last 2-3 weeks.